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Senyorico
Guest
If Trinity is a true doctrine, why didn’t Jews back then didn’t worship a Trinitarian God?
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Senyorico
Guest
I hope someone could answer my question! It would help me a lot
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Fauken
Guest
Because God had not yet revealed Himself as Triune.
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Todd_Easton
Guest
The false notion that there are many divine beings was so widespread that God want the Jews to first get use to the idea that there is only one divine being before introducing to them the idea that the one divine being is made up of three distinct but inseparable persons. It took the Jews over a thousand years just to get used to the idea that there is only one divine being.
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Kaninchen
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The Jewish Encyclopedia is always a good resource in finding out about Judaism (although it can be somewhat brain-numbingly detailed at times), here they are on the subject of monotheism.
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midori
Guest
Do humans jump straight in on abstract math, or do they have to start with 1 + 1 = 2?
And once they’ve got their basics down, they can go on to more abstract math?
I’d expect the same thing to be true about theology. God had his hands full enough to say, “I am the Lord your God, and you shall have no other gods besides me”— “Um, is that a golden calf I see?” “Um, no, don’t sacrifice your children to Baal–” “Um, I meant it, stay away from Asherah–” “Excuse me, you guys over there—!”
Can you imagine God trying to sit his prophets down and get it through their heads, “Okay, now, I’m just one God, but three distinct persons… Go tell the people that, mmkay?”
And once they’ve got their basics down, they can go on to more abstract math?
I’d expect the same thing to be true about theology. God had his hands full enough to say, “I am the Lord your God, and you shall have no other gods besides me”— “Um, is that a golden calf I see?” “Um, no, don’t sacrifice your children to Baal–” “Um, I meant it, stay away from Asherah–” “Excuse me, you guys over there—!”
Can you imagine God trying to sit his prophets down and get it through their heads, “Okay, now, I’m just one God, but three distinct persons… Go tell the people that, mmkay?”
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Vico
Guest
The full meaning of the passages in the Old Testament are not clear, so the Jews did not recognize that the Savior to come was to be none other than God Himself.
Note that:
Joyce, G. (1912). The Blessed Trinity. In The Catholic Encyclopedia. New York: Robert Appleton Company. http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/15047a.htm
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LateranBasilica
Guest
Back when?
The answer will depend on what era you refer to. Jews were not always monotheistic.
The answer will depend on what era you refer to. Jews were not always monotheistic.
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Usagi
Guest
Sure, but even when they were henotheistic or polytheistic, they (very likely, anyway) weren’t Trinitarian.
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LateranBasilica
Guest
It really is best to look at what was going on at different times with those living the Hebrew Bible.
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Fauken
Guest
This is a discussion about Judaism, not Islam.
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Senyorico
Guest
Are there any Biblical verses I can use to cite this claim?
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joseie
Guest
Extract from a relevant article in this regard ,which is self explanatory
“Christians are, of course, entitled to believe in a trinitarian conception of God, but their effort to base this conception on the Hebrew Bible must fly in the face of the overwhelming story of that Bible. Hebrew Scriptures are clear and unequivocal on the oneness of God . . . The Hebrew Bible affirms the one God with unmistakable clarity. Monotheism, an uncompromising belief in one God, is the hallmark of the Hebrew Bible, the unwavering affirmation of Judaism and the unshakable faith of the Jew.”
Whether Christians are accused of being polytheists or tritheists or whether it is admitted that the Christian concept of the Tri-unity is a form of monotheism, one element always appears: one cannot believe in the Trinity and be Jewish. Even if what Christians believe is monotheistic, it still does not seem to be monotheistic enough to qualify as true Jewishness. Rabbi Greenberg’s article tends to reflect that thinking.
Is there anything Jewish about the Trinity?
In a question-and-answer article, Rabbi Stanley Greenberg of Temple Sinai in Philadelphia once wrote:“Christians are, of course, entitled to believe in a trinitarian conception of God, but their effort to base this conception on the Hebrew Bible must fly in the face of the overwhelming story of that Bible. Hebrew Scriptures are clear and unequivocal on the oneness of God . . . The Hebrew Bible affirms the one God with unmistakable clarity. Monotheism, an uncompromising belief in one God, is the hallmark of the Hebrew Bible, the unwavering affirmation of Judaism and the unshakable faith of the Jew.”
Whether Christians are accused of being polytheists or tritheists or whether it is admitted that the Christian concept of the Tri-unity is a form of monotheism, one element always appears: one cannot believe in the Trinity and be Jewish. Even if what Christians believe is monotheistic, it still does not seem to be monotheistic enough to qualify as true Jewishness. Rabbi Greenberg’s article tends to reflect that thinking.
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Wesrock
Guest
Respectfully to Rabbi Greensberg, Catholic Christians are adamant on the oneness of God.
However, from the beginning, Christians have maintained that God didn’t reveal himself to be Triune until the coming of Jesus. We’ve never claimed that the Jews or Israelites or Moses in particular had a concept of the Trinity, though we do claim there are some OT passages which may suggest the Triune nature in hindsight, but that none of those are foundational.
Israelites, Jews included, worshipped Asherahs, Baals, and other deities off and on throughout the Bible. It’s very prevalent in Judges and Samuel/Kings. We see in Exodus that the Israelites brought foreign gods out of Egypt to Sinai. The rest of the post stating that God did not intimately reveal his Triune nature at first in order to ween the Israelites off of polytheism is a bit of Christian exegesis.
However, from the beginning, Christians have maintained that God didn’t reveal himself to be Triune until the coming of Jesus. We’ve never claimed that the Jews or Israelites or Moses in particular had a concept of the Trinity, though we do claim there are some OT passages which may suggest the Triune nature in hindsight, but that none of those are foundational.
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curious_cath
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The doctrine needed time to mature in the mind of the target population. Which is eventually the broader Israel or Christendom, all those who confess the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ.
There is evidence that before the return from the Babylonian exile, there were diverse practices on the Holy Land. Entire generations of Jews forgot about Moses and lived without any knowledge of the Law. This was also the time when many of them, even kings and their courts, attended “high places”, altars of Canaanite gods and worshiped together with the native people.
From the Pantheon of Canaanite gods three attracted significant worship among the Jews. These gods were called by some variants of names as
In a strange way, the deviation from the Mosaic Law and a turning toward Canaanite practices enticed the population into experiencing some kind of “holy trinity” in the three-ford worship of Baal, Jaw and Asherah. Of course this was far away from the true meaning of the Holy Trinity. Also, all these religious practices ceased after the return from the Babylonian exile when the whole nation returned to the Mosaic Law and embraced the Shema Israel, the one and only God.
There is evidence that before the return from the Babylonian exile, there were diverse practices on the Holy Land. Entire generations of Jews forgot about Moses and lived without any knowledge of the Law. This was also the time when many of them, even kings and their courts, attended “high places”, altars of Canaanite gods and worshiped together with the native people.
From the Pantheon of Canaanite gods three attracted significant worship among the Jews. These gods were called by some variants of names as
- Baal/ Hadad,
- Jamm/Jaw
- Asherah/ Astarte
In a strange way, the deviation from the Mosaic Law and a turning toward Canaanite practices enticed the population into experiencing some kind of “holy trinity” in the three-ford worship of Baal, Jaw and Asherah. Of course this was far away from the true meaning of the Holy Trinity. Also, all these religious practices ceased after the return from the Babylonian exile when the whole nation returned to the Mosaic Law and embraced the Shema Israel, the one and only God.
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BartholomewB
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That’s it, in a nutshell. The doctrine of the Trinity is monotheistic, but “not monotheistic enough” to fit in with Judaism.
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Todd_Easton
Guest
Are you referring to my claim that the Jews struggled with the idea that there is only one divine being for over a thousand years? This “over a thousand years” refers to the time Moses received the Old Covenant about 1500 BC to the time of the Maccabees about 100 BC, when Scripture indicates many Jews were still practicing idolatry. See, for example, 1 Maccabees 1:43 and 2 Maccabees 12:40.
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Kaninchen
Guest
Just an observation - I think you have to be careful with questions about belief at any stage of history because there’s ‘official’ religion and what might be called ‘folk’ religion - to take an obvious example from today, how many people who regard themselves as good Christians (Jews, whatever) read their daily horoscope?
The ancient Middle East was as much a supermarket of religious ideas and traditional folk beliefs as we have around us today and the fact that people deviated from the orthodox/official shouldn’t necessarily be taken as meaning anything more than the deviations that the orthodox/official complain about/struggle against today.
The ancient Middle East was as much a supermarket of religious ideas and traditional folk beliefs as we have around us today and the fact that people deviated from the orthodox/official shouldn’t necessarily be taken as meaning anything more than the deviations that the orthodox/official complain about/struggle against today.
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Hodos
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Because the Trinity was revealed through the incarnation, death, and resurrection of Christ, and the outpouring of the Holy Spirit on the Church. The majority of Jews rejected Christ as the Messiah, so it is not surprising that they would reject the Trinity. Keep in mind however that John and Paul , the author of Hebrews, etc., all Jews, seem very comfortable with attributing divinity and creation to Christ, the second person of the Trinity, and divinity to the Holy Spirit.
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Autumn-Smoke
Guest
I’m reminded of Psalm 51 where David said “take not thy Holy Spirit from me.” We don’t really know how David viewed the Holy Spirit, but we would see him as a part of the Godhead.
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