Did the so-called "Indian Wars" in North America have brief duration or low intensity?

[PseuTonym]

I was reading the following …

“Because of the intense and centuries-long anti-blackness of U.S. culture, there have been relatively few instances of white people deciding to pass as black. However, there many, many examples of white (and some black) people trying to pass as Native American. In fact, there are so many examples of this type of cultural appropriation, I started a Pinterest board with a bunch of these images.”

There’s a problem with the structure of the reasoning above. If we want to create a parallel sentence based on the first sentence, then we could write …

Parallel sentence: “Because U.S. culture has been intensely anti-indigenous for centuries, there have been relatively few instances of white people deciding to pass as indigenous.”

One minor detail:
The so-called “Indian Wars” occurred beginning before 1776, so it could be a mistake to restrict attention to so-called “U.S. culture”, and instead consider culture outside of indigenous communities.

If the parallel sentence is true, then we seem to run into difficulty when we reach the claim that “there are so many examples of this.” There is a contrast set up between “relatively few instances of” and “there are so many examples of”, but without any actual data, there is no way to make a comparison. However, let us assume that the author is correct, and there is a discrepancy between the quantities.

One would think that a long history of wars in North America between non-indigenous people and indigenous people would be a manifestation of something anti-indigenous about the cultures of the non-indigenous people.

Link:
racismreview.com/blog/2015/06/12/rachel-dolezal-racial-identity-trouble-with-white-womanhood/
See the final paragraph of the section entitled “Going Native and ‘Faint Traces’ of Native American Heritage”

 

[GEddie]

The “Indian Wars” had a long duration – approximately 1750 (with the “French and Indian War”) to approximately 1900; but were very intermittent. Many of those years elapsed with no Indian battles.

So the period could be described as relatively “low intensity.”

ICXC NIKA

 

[SuperLuigi]

Long duration, low intensity.

The fact is many Native Americans welcomed the settlers and many also refused to take up arms against them.

In the second wave of permanent European contact (the Columbus era, the Vikings were actually trading with Natives 500 years prior), there was a gradual colonization of North America driven mostly by access to resources. That’s why the West Coast was settled before the plains were.

North American history is more of a mixed bag than a pure us vs them mentality. Many of the latter conflicts were over resource access (such as gold in the Black Hills in the midst of a Depression that was on Native land) as well as late shipments of vital supplies to tribes from the government. Tribes also fought amongst themselves up to the very end and internal US and European politics resulted in all kinds of coalitions over the years.

 

[adamhovey1988]

I was reading the following …

“Because of the intense and centuries-long anti-blackness of U.S. culture, there have been relatively few instances of white people deciding to pass as black. However, there many, many examples of white (and some black) people trying to pass as Native American. In fact, there are so many examples of this type of cultural appropriation, I started a Pinterest board with a bunch of these images.”

There’s a problem with the structure of the reasoning above. If we want to create a parallel sentence based on the first sentence, then we could write …

Parallel sentence: “Because U.S. culture has been intensely anti-indigenous for centuries, there have been relatively few instances of white people deciding to pass as indigenous.”

One minor detail:
The so-called “Indian Wars” occurred beginning before 1776, so it could be a mistake to restrict attention to so-called “U.S. culture”, and instead consider culture outside of indigenous communities.

If the parallel sentence is true, then we seem to run into difficulty when we reach the claim that “there are so many examples of this.” There is a contrast set up between “relatively few instances of” and “there are so many examples of”, but without any actual data, there is no way to make a comparison. However, let us assume that the author is correct, and there is a discrepancy between the quantities.

One would think that a long history of wars in North America between non-indigenous people and indigenous people would be a manifestation of something anti-indigenous about the cultures of the non-indigenous people.

Link:
racismreview.com/blog/2015/06/12/rachel-dolezal-racial-identity-trouble-with-white-womanhood/
See the final paragraph of the section entitled “Going Native and ‘Faint Traces’ of Native American Heritage”

I really hate the term Native American I much prefer American Indian and I have white black and American Indian ancestry, since it’s more about culture than it is ancestry and I’m just not on my Indian ancestors are even accounted for. the ongoing genocide that is blood Quantum laws. I am so set against the prejudice against mixed bloods here in the United States my grandmother was Indian my mother is Indian, my father was Indian his father was Indian. I remember going to a powwow with my predominately Spanish and Portuguese girlfriend and people thought she was Indian wasn’t because they’ve never seen anyone from Iberian Peninsula. oddly enough it was the gray-eyed Indians the people who look like me that were rude to me. The nicest guy there was a Cherokee from Oklahoma who looked like the biggest American Indian stereotype you could think of and I liked him, he was really cool. the Cherokee Nation of Oklahoma which I have huge problems with because of the way they treat state recognized tribes has members as little as 1/4096 Indian. To me, that is still Indian as long as it’s part of their cultural heritage. My best friend, is 1/4 Eastern band Cherokee he is not enrolled in that tribe because his mother was raised by her stepfather but it’s definitely part of his culture. (traditionally, Cherokees are matrilineal but the modern tribes are not). I should like to point out that here in South Carolina we have one federally recognized tribe but because for a long time in this part of the country you were either white or you were colored that that tribe went through a lot to get Federal recognition. And that tribe is made up entirely of mixed race people.

 

[SuperLuigi]

I really hate the term Native American I much prefer American Indian and I have white black and American Indian ancestry, since it’s more about culture than it is ancestry and I’m just not on my Indian ancestors are even accounted for. the ongoing genocide that is blood Quantum laws. I am so set against the prejudice against mixed bloods here in the United States my grandmother was Indian my mother is Indian, my father was Indian his father was Indian. I remember going to a powwow with my predominately Spanish and Portuguese girlfriend and people thought she was Indian wasn’t because they’ve never seen anyone from Iberian Peninsula. oddly enough it was the gray-eyed Indians the people who look like me that were rude to me. The nicest guy there was a Cherokee from Oklahoma who looked like the biggest American Indian stereotype you could think of and I liked him, he was really cool. the Cherokee Nation of Oklahoma which I have huge problems with because of the way they treat state recognized tribes has members as little as 1/4096 Indian. To me, that is still Indian as long as it’s part of their cultural heritage. My best friend, is 1/4 Eastern band Cherokee he is not enrolled in that tribe because his mother was raised by her stepfather but it’s definitely part of his culture. (traditionally, Cherokees are matrilineal but the modern tribes are not). I should like to point out that here in South Carolina we have one federally recognized tribe but because for a long time in this part of the country you were either white or you were colored that that tribe went through a lot to get Federal recognition. And that tribe is made up entirely of mixed race people.

Some get really offended when you “deny” your Native heritage and ID as white, black, Asian or whatever. Others will say “just because your grandma was native doesn’t mean you are, that’s like saying I’m Irish cause my grandma was”.

I also get a kick out some of those ‘genealogists’ who say things like “we could not evidence about so and so”.

You really can’t win with some folks.

It’s an interesting standard for those us in this…quandry, because even if someone is a little bit brown or black and mostly white or Asian, they really are not considered white or Asian.

 

[PseuTonym]

I really hate the term Native American; I much prefer American Indian

Using the hyphen approach, maybe the appropriate term is “(North American)-American.” After all, isn’t it about time to stop rubbing in Columbus’ misconception about what continent he landed on?

I remember going to a powwow with my predominately Spanish and Portuguese girlfriend and people thought she was Indian wasn’t because they’ve never seen anyone from Iberian Peninsula. oddly enough it was the gray-eyed Indians the people who look like me that were rude to me.

It seems that rejection and rudeness can be a byproduct of superficial impressions in the mind of the rude person. The rude person doesn’t need to know anything about the culture or the ancestry of the target.

the Cherokee Nation of Oklahoma – which I have huge problems with because of the way they treat state recognized tribes – has members with as little as 1/4096 Indian. To me, that is still Indian as long as it’s part of their cultural heritage.

When you say “cultural heritage”, are you focused just on what was picked up during infancy and childhood? To learn a language, as little as 0/4096 is enough. However, languages seem to be the most challenging part of culture to learn when one is an adult.

 

[Bill_Martin]

The Indian Wars were really a piecemeal collection of disconnected conflicts over centuries, sometimes de jure, usually de facto. They were happening long before the US existed as a nation, and were not limited to the United States. For example, Geronimo explains in his autobiography many of the problems the Apache had with Mexico. There were many tribes and many bands within those tribes dealing with many generals, settlers, and statesmen. There was little unified strucure or policy.

Even after the US Civil War when a more structured and comprehensive policy took shape, commanders in the field had wide latitude to deal with the natives, leading to contradictory agreements and large differences in conduct. Part of the problem was that the US Army had a large contingent deployed in the south for Reconstruction and did not have the manpower to project west. Generally speaking, the better units were in the south as well, so less experienced and competent units were on the frontier. The idea was to divide the frontier into zones, with a colonel or higher in charge of each zone. This had the effect of allowing the commander of a particular area to become familiar with the natives in his area, make treaties with them, and generally act as a single point of contact for those tribes. This was a good idea, but didn’t work. Plains tribes were nomadic and would often roam into other zones, causing friction when their deals with the previous zone’s commander were not recognized by the current one. This meant the officer would have to go up the chain of comand to figure out what to do, which could take a long time.

Confusing the issue even more was a failure on behalf of the Army and settlers to distinguish between bands of natives. The Apache, for example, would expel members from their bands for committing crimes. These criminals would for “outlaw” bands, and would often raid settlers. This would result in a backlash from the Army against the main Apache band, blaming them for the actions of the outlaws.

In the case of the Nez Perce War, Christianized Nez Perces signed a treaty giving away lands on behalf of the Nez Perces, but this did not represent the wishes of the main tribe. It is interesting to note that these Nez Perces later held a bitter hatred of Chief Joseph for resisting the government, though his followers were understandably angry at the Christian Nez Perces for signing away their lands. The war was partially a result of coercion and partially confusion.

All in all, I really resist the idea of thinking of the Indian Wars as some sort of indication of a non-native plot against the indigenous peoples, which seems to be in vogue these days. It was a very multilayered and fragmented phenomenon with a host of different actors, all with their own motivations, prejudices, and misconceptions.

 

[PseuTonym]

All in all, I really resist the idea of thinking of the Indian Wars as some sort of indication of a non-native plot against the indigenous peoples

The hypothesis that there has been a conspiracy or plot against the indigenous peoples might have a connection with this thread. Perhaps some of the readers of this thread, who arrive at this thread with their own opinions and preconceptions, believe that such a conspiracy or plot exists. However, I don’t see any way to extract it from the Original Post of this thread. As for the Original Post of this thread, it is a forthright and transparent description of my actual train of thought that motivated me to create this thread.

The so-called “Indian Wars” were invoked as non-controversial evidence that the topic is not merely a branch of fake education. Perhaps it was a mistake to include the words “Indian Wars” in the title. However, the topic is more complicated than can be easily fit inside the space available for a thread title.

 

[PseuTonym]

The following is an analogy with part of the script of the movie “Dead Poets Society”:

“If the poem’s score for perfection is
plotted along the horizontal of a graph,
and its importance is plotted on the vertical,
then calculating the total area of the poem
yields the measure of its greatness.”

Keating draws a corresponding graph on the board and the students dutifully copy it down.

KEATING
We’re not laying pipe, we’re talking about poetry.

Link:
peterweircave.com/dps/script.html

Instead of the two factors of perfection and importance, the text examined at the beginning of this thread refers to the two factors of intensity and duration.

However, in this thread, we’re not laying pipe. We’re talking about human beings.

Understanding Poetry - Dead poets society (3 min, 32 sec)

 

[Gorgias]

I was reading the following …

“Because of the intense and centuries-long anti-blackness of U.S. culture, there have been relatively few instances of white people deciding to pass as black. However, there many, many examples of white (and some black) people trying to pass as Native American. In fact, there are so many examples of this type of cultural appropriation, I started a Pinterest board with a bunch of these images.”

There’s a problem with the structure of the reasoning above.

Part of the problem, I think, is that the author doesn’t distinguish between a number of actions:

• A Caucasian person attempting to identify as a person of color when s/he is not (as in Dolezal).
• A person who attempts to identify with some portion of his/her ethnic heritage.
• A Caucasian wearing a costume, but not attempting to create a real-life persona of another race/ethnicity.

So, which is it, when she writes “trying to pass as Native American”? Her Pinterest photos show a range of these types of actions.

 

[Ridgerunner]

I really hate the term Native American I much prefer American Indian and I have white black and American Indian ancestry, since it’s more about culture than it is ancestry and I’m just not on my Indian ancestors are even accounted for. the ongoing genocide that is blood Quantum laws. I am so set against the prejudice against mixed bloods here in the United States my grandmother was Indian my mother is Indian, my father was Indian his father was Indian. I remember going to a powwow with my predominately Spanish and Portuguese girlfriend and people thought she was Indian wasn’t because they’ve never seen anyone from Iberian Peninsula. oddly enough it was the gray-eyed Indians the people who look like me that were rude to me. The nicest guy there was a Cherokee from Oklahoma who looked like the biggest American Indian stereotype you could think of and I liked him, he was really cool. the Cherokee Nation of Oklahoma which I have huge problems with because of the way they treat state recognized tribes has members as little as 1/4096 Indian. To me, that is still Indian as long as it’s part of their cultural heritage. My best friend, is 1/4 Eastern band Cherokee he is not enrolled in that tribe because his mother was raised by her stepfather but it’s definitely part of his culture. (traditionally, Cherokees are matrilineal but the modern tribes are not). I should like to point out that here in South Carolina we have one federally recognized tribe but because for a long time in this part of the country you were either white or you were colored that that tribe went through a lot to get Federal recognition. And that tribe is made up entirely of mixed race people.

The Cherokee Nation is pretty close to here. I have a liking for them because they were always very friendly whenever my kids and I went to their powwows. I’m not sure how “culturally Indian” they are, but I was impressed now and then when some man would volunteer openly to be surrogate father to some kid or kids who had lost their natural father. And the gift-giving was almost silly, (bolts of cloth and stacks of cartons of cokes, for instance) but I got the impression it was heartfelt and meant something to them.

And too, most of the people here (southwestern Mo Ozarks) at least claim some Indian ancestry; mostly Cherokee, but some others. The “Trail of Tears” went right through here, and I have a feeling most of them slipped off into the hills and hollows and intermarried with settlers. And the Indian ancestry of most is pretty thin. When you see blond, blue-eyed “hillbilly” kids with Scots-Irish names who nevertheless claim to be part Indian, you know you’re dealing with just a trace of it.

How much “Indian culture” there is in all of that, is hard for me to say. Yes, I can buy into Comanches (they have a reservation in Ok too) decked out in plains gear, but Cherokees with feather headdresses doesn’t really work. But it’s okay with me if they want to do that.

I will say that the only Cherokee speakers I have ever seen were in Delaware County, Ok. But there are probably others.

I think some fairly moderate number of Indians were killed by whites. Most who died, died of disease. But my strong suspicion is that most North American Indians who “disappeared” intermarried with Europeans and “being part Indian” is shared by millions and millions of Americans.

 

[tomarin]

The Cherokee Nation is pretty close to here. I have a liking for them because they were always very friendly whenever my kids and I went to their powwows. I’m not sure how “culturally Indian” they are, but I was impressed now and then when some man would volunteer openly to be surrogate father to some kid or kids who had lost their natural father. And the gift-giving was almost silly, (bolts of cloth and stacks of cartons of cokes, for instance) but I got the impression it was heartfelt and meant something to them.

And too, most of the people here (southwestern Mo Ozarks) at least claim some Indian ancestry; mostly Cherokee, but some others. The “Trail of Tears” went right through here, and I have a feeling most of them slipped off into the hills and hollows and intermarried with settlers. And the Indian ancestry of most is pretty thin. When you see blond, blue-eyed “hillbilly” kids with Scots-Irish names who nevertheless claim to be part Indian, you know you’re dealing with just a trace of it.

How much “Indian culture” there is in all of that, is hard for me to say. Yes, I can buy into Comanches (they have a reservation in Ok too) decked out in plains gear, but Cherokees with feather headdresses doesn’t really work. But it’s okay with me if they want to do that.

I will say that the only Cherokee speakers I have ever seen were in Delaware County, Ok. But there are probably others.

I think some fairly moderate number of Indians were killed by whites. Most who died, died of disease. But my strong suspicion is that most North American Indians who “disappeared” intermarried with Europeans and “being part Indian” is shared by millions and millions of Americans.

Weren’t the Cherokee pre-Trail of Tears also famous for their assimilation into Western culture, to the point that many had converted to Christianity, they had translated the Bible into the Cherokee language, they wore Western clothing, they had printing presses and newspapers, etc.? They were considered a ‘success story’ of cultural assimilation until they were forcibly resettled.