Did the Vatican house and helped Nazi criminals?

[Bob_Crowley]

I’m reading the book “Time’s Arrow” from Martin Amis and in certain part of the book, the protagonist (Nazi doctor at Auschwitz) goes to the Vatican after the war where he is housed for a few weeks and the Vatican helps him get a new name. I have heard that this is kind of a taboo topic and I want someone to explain to me what really happened.

The Vatican was credited with saving 860,000 Jewish lives during WWII.

michaeljournal.org/piusXII.htm

The Israeli diplomat and scholar Pinchas Lapide concluded his careful review of Pius XII’s wartime activities with the following words: “The Catholic Church, under the pontificate of Pius XII, was instrumental in saving the lives of as many as 860,000 Jews from certain death at Nazi hands.” He went on to add that this “figure far exceeds those saved by all other Churches and rescue organizations combined.” After recounting statements of appreciation from a variety of preeminent Jewish spokespersons, he noted. “No Pope in history has been thanked more heartily by Jews.”

On the other hand, a limited number of Nazis may have escaped by a ratline running through the Vatican, engineered by one particular Bishop.

Catholic Bishop Alois Hudal was rector of the Pontificio Istituto Teutonico Santa Maria dellAnima in Rome, a seminary for Austrian and German priests, and “Spiritual Director of the German People resident in Italy”. After the end of the war in Italy, Hudal became active in ministering to German-speaking prisoners of war and internees then held in camps throughout Italy. In December 1944 the Vatican Secretariat of State received permission to appoint a representative to “visit the German-speaking civil internees in Italy”, a job which was assigned to Hudal.

Hudal used this position to aid the escape of wanted Nazi war criminals, including Franz Stangl, commanding officer of Treblinka, Gustav Wagner, commanding officer of Sobibor, Alois Brunner, responsible for the Drancy internment camp near Paris and in charge of deportations in Slovakia to German concentration camps, and Adolf Eichmann - a fact about which he was later unashamedly open. Some of these wanted men were being held in internment camps: generally without identity papers, they would be enrolled in camp registers under false names. Other Nazis were in hiding in Italy, and sought Hudal out as his role in assisting escapes became known on the Nazi grapevine.

However this would not have been a centrally planned initiative, but would have involved a small number of conspirators within the Vatican.

But it was the Protestants who most strongly supported the rise of Hitler. I lifted the following from “The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich” by William Shirer. It’s available online at -

wikispooks.com/w/images/c/c9/The_Rise_And_Fall_Of_The_Third_Reich

.pdf

It is difficult to understand the behavior of most German Protestants in the
first Nazi years unless one is aware of two things: their history and the influence
of Martin Luther.

The great founder of Protestantism was both a passionate anti-Semite and a ferocious believer in absolute obedience to political authority.

He wanted Germany rid of the Jews and when they were sent away he advised
that they be deprived of ”all their cash and jewels and silver and gold” and,
furthermore, ”that their synagogues or schools be set on fire, that their houses
be broken up and destroyed … and they be put under a roof or stable, like the
gypsies … in misery and captivity as they incessantly lament and complain to
God about us” – advice that was literally followed four centuries later by Hitler,
Goering and Himmler.

In what was perhaps the only popular revolt in German history, the peasant
uprising of 1525, Luther advised the princes to adopt the most ruthless measures
against the ”mad dogs,” as he called the desperate, downtrodden peasants.
Here, as in his utterances about the Jews, Luther employed a coarseness and
brutality of language unequaled in German history until the Nazi time. The
influence of this towering figure extended down the generations in Germany,
especially among the Protestants. Among other results was the ease with which

**To avoid any misunderstanding, it might be well to point out here that the author is a
Protestant.
**

THE RISE AND FALL OF THE THIRD REICH

German Protestantism became the instrument of royal and princely absolutism
from the sixteenth century until the kings and princes were overthrown in 1918.
The hereditary monarchs and petty rulers became the supreme bishops of the
Protestant Church in their lands. Thus in Prussia the Hohenzollern King was
the head of the Church. In no country with the exception of Czarist Russia did
the clergy become by tradition so completely servile to the political authority of
the State. Its members, with few exceptions, stood solidly behind the King, the
Junkers and the Army, and during the nineteenth century they dutifully opposed
the rising liberal and democratic movements. Even the Weimar Republic was
anathema to most Protestant pastors, not only because it had deposed the kings
and princes but because it drew its main support from the Catholics and the
Socialists. During the Reichstag elections one could not help but notice that
the Protestant clergy – Niemoeller was typical – quite openly supported the
Nationalist and even the Nazi enemies of the Republic. Like Niemoeller, most
of the pastors welcomed the advent of Adolf Hitler to the chancellorship in 1933.

In a nutshell then, the Catholic Church saved around 860,000 Jews. There no doubt was a ratline organised partly by some members of the Vatican which helped some war criminals to escape justice. And it was the Protestants who most strongly supported the rise of Hitler in the first place.

 

[Kaninchen]

In a nutshell then, the Catholic Church saved around 860,000 Jews.

There is absolutely no way of establishing that number - it originated with Pinchas Lapide (who never explained it, there is no documentary evidence for it) and it has turned up in all sorts of places, in print and later ‘virally’ online.

The most I’ve ever said about Pius XII is that some of his decisions were ‘arguable’ so I’m not exactly a critic of the man but the 860,000 defence is as mythical as the ‘Hitler’s Pope’ accusations.

 

[Bob_Crowley]

There is absolutely no way of establishing that number - it originated with Pinchas Lapide (who never explained it, there is no documentary evidence for it) and it has turned up in all sorts of places, in print and later ‘virally’ online.

The most I’ve ever said about Pius XII is that some of his decisions were ‘arguable’ so I’m not exactly a critic of the man but the 860,000 defence is as mythical as the ‘Hitler’s Pope’ accusations.

If the Jews said it, and they would hardly credit the Catholic Church if they didn’t have to, then you can be pretty sure it’s accurate.

jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/anti-semitism/piusdef.html

In Hungary, an estimated 80,000 baptismal certificates were issued by Church authorities to Jews. In other areas of Eastern Europe the Vatican escape network (organised via Bulgaria by the Nuncio Roncalli - later John XXIII) has impressed those writers who have studied the subject, with the effectiveness of the Church’s rescue operation. David Herstig concludes his book on the subject thus:

“Those rescued by Pius are today living all over the world. There went to Israel alone from Romania 360,000 to the year 1965.”

The vindication of Pius XII has been established principally by Jewish writers and from Israeli archives. It is now established that the Pope supervised a rescue network which saved 860,000 Jewish lives - more than all the international agencies put together.

Incidentally John XXIII was the same man who started Vatican II.

 

[Kaninchen]

If the Jews said it, and they would hardly credit the Catholic Church if they didn’t have to, then you can be pretty sure it’s accurate.

jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/anti-semitism/piusdef.html

It’s a document in an online library, alongside a number of others. It’s written by “Robert A. Graham, S.J” and, while conspiracy theorists probably differ on whether Jews run the Jesuits or Jesuits run the Jews, he’s a Catholic.

‘The Jews’ didn’t say it, Lapide said it, you won’t find the same conclusion from any reputable academic historian of the Shoah (those sorts of numbers could only be reached by assuming that virtually all Jews who survived in countries like Romania and Hungary did so because of the intervention of Pius XII, like magic).

By saying that the ‘860,000’ is a myth, I’m not denying that very many Jews survived because of the actions of Catholics both on an institutional and individual, very heroic, level. Neither am I saying that Pius wasn’t responsible for policies that aided large number of Jews. What I’m saying is that ‘860,000’ was a back of an envelope figure which doesn’t hold up to investigation.

Incidentally John XXIII was the same man who started Vatican II.

I’m quite aware of that. Did you know that the ‘antipope’ John XXIII’s tomb is in the impressive baptistery of Basilica di Santa Maria del Fiore (the Cathedral) in Florence?

 

[Bob_Crowley]

I’m quite aware of that. Did you know that the ‘antipope’ John XXIII’s tomb is in the impressive baptistery of Basilica di Santa Maria del Fiore (the Cathedral) in Florence.

No, I didn’t know. One of those peculiar items of history I suppose, like Rudolph Hess flying to England, Richard III being found buried in a car park, or the first confirmed European sighting of Australia being by the Dutch.

From Wikipedia -

The first undisputed sighting of Australia by a European was made in early 1606. The Dutch vessel Duyfken, captained by Willem Janszoon, followed the coast of New Guinea, missed Torres Strait, and explored part of the western side of Cape York, in the Gulf of Carpentaria, believing the land was still part of New Guinea.[6][7][8][9] On 26 February 1606, the Dutch made landfall near the modern town of Weipa and the Pennefather River, but were promptly attacked by the Indigenous people.[10] Janszoon proceeded down the coast for some 350 km. He stopped in some places, but was met by hostile natives and some of his men were killed. At the final place, he initially had friendly relations with the natives, but after he forced them to hunt for him and appropriated some of their women, violence broke out and there were many deaths on both sides. These events were recorded in Aboriginal oral history that has come down to the present day. Here Janszoon decided to turn back, the place later being called Cape Keerweer, Dutch for “turnabout”.

But they’re not exactly relevant to the topic.

It seems Golda Meir, former Prime Miniser of Israel, commended Pius XII when he died, along with Dr. Raphael Cantoni as shown below. I lifted the quotes from the EWTN website.

ewtn.com/library/answers/piusjews.htm

When Pope Pius XII died on October 9, 1958, Golda Meir, then Israeli delegate to the United Nations, sent official condolences: “When fearful martyrdom came to our people in the decade of Nazi terror, the voice of the pope was raised for the victims. The life of our times was enriched by a voice speaking out on the great moral truths above the tumult of daily conflict. We mourn a great servant of peace.”

Dr. Raphael Cantoni, a leader in Italy’s Jewish Assistance Committee added, “The Church and the papacy have saved Jews as much and insofar as they could Christians. Six million of my co-religionists have been murdered by the Nazis… but there would have been many more victims had it not been for the efficacious intervention of Pius XII.”

 

[Kaninchen]

It seems Golda Meir, former Prime Miniser of Israel, commended Pius XII when he died, along with Dr. Raphael Cantoni as shown below. I lifted the quotes from the EWTN website.

ewtn.com/library/answers/piusjews.htm

You’re talking to me as if I think Pius was some kind of dreadful monster - I don’t, I’ve never criticised him, he was between a rock and a hard place. It’s the 860,000 that can’t be defended, Pius is rather easy to defend.

 

[Kaninchen]

No, I didn’t know. One of those peculiar items of history I suppose,

We were taking photos of the Cathedral and Mr Kaninchen pointed it out, it was a surprise to find there were two John XXIIIs!

 

[Bob_Crowley]

You’re talking to me as if I think Pius was some kind of dreadful monster - I don’t, I’ve never criticised him, he was between a rock and a hard place. It’s the 860,000 that can’t be defended, Pius is rather easy to defend.

Obviously I don’t have access to the Jewish archives, but as you pointed out, the 860,000 figure comes from Pinchas Lapide.

It appears he’s a **Jewish Scholar and was an Israeli diplomat **stationed in Milan.

catholicculture.org/culture/library/view.cfm?recnum=6648

Jewish scholar and Israeli diplomat stationed in Milan, Pinchas Lapide, drawing on Yad Vashem archives, found that the Vatican’s efforts saved 860,000 Jews — a figure that dwarfs the efforts of all other organizations or governments. (Lapide, Three Popes and the Jews, New York: Hawthorn, 1967)

These are some headlines from the times themselves.

Jewish Advocate, Boston, Jan. 26, 1940: “Vatican Radio denounces Nazi acts in Poland”

The New York Times, Christmas Day, 1941: “The voice of Pius XII is the only voice in the silence and darkness that developed in Europe this Christmas . . . He is the only ruler left on the continent of Europe who dares to raise his voice at all.”

Canadian Jewish Chronicle, Sept. 4, 1942: “Laval spurns Pope; 25,000 Jews in France arrested for deportation.”

Jewish Chronicle, London, Oct. 29, 1943: “Jewish hostages in Rome: Vatican protests.”

I’m inclined to believe Lapide, but then I’m biased as I’m Catholic (ex-Protestant, and I heard some whoppers about the Catholic Church when I was a protestant). But Lapide is Jewish, so unless he had something to gain by inflating the figures, then you’ll have to take it up with him.