Did you see the opening mass for WYD?

[5Loaves]

I’m their Formation Director. Four of them are WYD graduates. It’s the most diverse group of men that I have ever formed. They range from ages 22 to 43.

Two businessmen
Two engineers
One priest
One journalist
One police officer
One medical doctor

How’s that for diversity?

I’ll ditto what MarkThompson said: That’s awesome, Brother!
It’s very exciting to see men who have had other vocations make this choice.
Thank you for your wonderful work!

 

[TrueLight]

I
The miscommunication that one of the MFVA Franciscans tried to correct, but it was too late, was the meeting with the sisters. The way that it was communicated in English is not the same way that it was in other languages. In other languages it said, non-clerical religious. In the Enlglish speaking countries they published it as a meeting with sisters. Many young religious brothers did not register to attend. They found out that they were invited, when they arrived in Madrid. It was too late to register. You had to do so several months ago.
Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

Well, I learned something too. I thought the Religious who were chosen to become priests went to seminary. What is the equivalent of seminary for Religious. Where do they get their instruction?

 

[JReducation]

I’m blest to live fairly near the local Dominican Priory and to go to daily Mass there about once a week. The guys all look the same to me until the stoles appear when the priests are moving up to con-celebrate and the brothers remain in the choir stalls, especially clear right now in summer when the students are all away. That will change any day now when the students return, as will the chant, hurray!

Well, I learned something too. I thought the Religious who were chosen to become priests went to seminary. What is the equivalent of seminary for Religious. Where do they get their instruction?

Whethere you’re going to be a priest or not, we all go to the same school. Normally, you finish four years of college. Then you go to one of the following for another four years to get a Master’s degree.

a) A college of theology just for religious

b) A university.

c) In your own religious house, if it’s accredited as a college.

If you don’t have any of the above available to you, then you attend a diocesan seminary or the seminary of a clerical congregation, if there is one in your area. In the case that you have to attend a diocesan seminary, arrangements are made so that you do not spend too much time with the diocesan seminarians. This avoids contamination with the secular world. Sometimes, the religious will have a house nearby and they go back and forth. If they have to live at the seminary, they live in a separate part of the building where they may have their own recreation space, meeting room and study hall. If they have to eat with the secular seminarians, they usually eat in the same dining room, but at a table by themselves. A perpetually professed religious is assigned to go with them or several. These men are responsible for their formation.

Since the religious and the secular will eventually have to interact, there are times during the day when they do certain things together for short periods. I’m refering to things outside of class such as play sports, music, or watch a movie.

Religious normally go out for ministry as well. Whereas the diocesan seminarians do not. Most bishops do not want their seminarians involved in apostolic work until their diaconate year. They want the focus to be on prayer and study.

Religious place greater emphasis on prayer, brotherhood and service. Study is at the bottom of that list of priorities. Don’t get me wrong, you are expected to maintain at least a B avg in graduate school. The young religious must learn discipline.

The diocesan seminarian is a secular man. He goes to movies, sports events, visits friends, gets out to dinner or to a pub to watch a football game with a few other guys.

The two lifestyles are so different that mixing is not always a good idea. People start coparing or learning from each other. You don’t want your diocesan priests to look and act like religious. You don’t want your religious to look and act like diocesan priests. For that same reason, during those years of formation, the religious normally do not segragate their students, those who are going to be priests and those who are going into other forms of ministry. You want them to form a bond as a brothers to each other and to see each other as equals. This is very important to the religious. When this does not happen in the house, the laity picks up on it and then the laity begins to discriminate between the ordained religious and the lay religious.

In the case of religious everyone in the house of formation is equal. If you walk in, you can’t tell the difference between the men there. There is such a strong focus on brotherhood that the only time you see a difference is when it’s absolutely necessary. For example, for community mass, the ordained will put their stoles on. At a house chapter, those in perpetual vows get to vote and the religious in formation may speak, but not vote. There are no titles, except for the superior. Everyone is Jack, Mike, Don, Mark, etc.

In a diocesan seminary the seminarians are Mr., the deacons are either Deacon or Rev. Mr. and the ordained are Father. Unless there is a real friendship, the titles are used to deliniate your place.

Nonetheless, diocesan seminaries are fun places to be. The guys are awesome. They simply live in a very secular world of titles, ranks, rights and privileges.

Religious houses of theology are also fun places, but the guys live in a very non secular world without titles, no special privileges for anyone, very close communities where people work, eat, play, sleep and pray together. It’s at class time that the religious in formation go off to the school room. The other religious in the house go about their daily routine, whatever may be assigned to them.

The religious do not live at these colleges. After classes each religious goes back to his religious house. You don’t mix and match by putting Dominicans and Franciscans under the same roof. They live very differently. For example, the Dominicans chant the LOTH and the Franciscans recite it. Little things like that do not permit a mixing and matching under the same roof.

Having separate houses for formation is practical and prepares them for the realities in which they will live. Sometimes, there are not enough resources and religious and diocesan will shaer resources.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[TrueLight]

Whethere you’re going to be a priest or not, we all go to the same school. Normally, you finish four years of college. Then you go to one of the following for another four years to get a Master’s degree.

a) A college of theology just for religious

b) A university.

c) In your own religious house, if it’s accredited as a college.

If you don’t have any of the above available to you, then you attend a diocesan seminary or the seminary of a clerical congregation, if there is one in your area. In the case that you have to attend a diocesan seminary, arrangements are made so that you do not spend too much time with the diocesan seminarians. This avoids contamination with the secular world. Sometimes, the religious will have a house nearby and they go back and forth. If they have to live at the seminary, they live in a separate part of the building where they may have their own recreation space, meeting room and study hall. If they have to eat with the secular seminarians, they usually eat in the same dining room, but at a table by themselves. A perpetually professed religious is assigned to go with them or several. These men are responsible for their formation.

Since the religious and the secular will eventually have to interact, there are times during the day when they do certain things together for short periods. I’m refering to things outside of class such as play sports, music, or watch a movie.

Religious normally go out for ministry as well. Whereas the diocesan seminarians do not. Most bishops do not want their seminarians involved in apostolic work until their diaconate year. They want the focus to be on prayer and study.

Religious place greater emphasis on prayer, brotherhood and service. Study is at the bottom of that list of priorities. Don’t get me wrong, you are expected to maintain at least a B avg in graduate school. The young religious must learn discipline.

The diocesan seminarian is a secular man. He goes to movies, sports events, visits friends, gets out to dinner or to a pub to watch a football game with a few other guys.

The two lifestyles are so different that mixing is not always a good idea. People start coparing or learning from each other. You don’t want your diocesan priests to look and act like religious. You don’t want your religious to look and act like diocesan priests. For that same reason, during those years of formation, the religious normally do not segragate their students, those who are going to be priests and those who are going into other forms of ministry. You want them to form a bond as a brothers to each other and to see each other as equals. This is very important to the religious. When this does not happen in the house, the laity picks up on it and then the laity begins to discriminate between the ordained religious and the lay religious.

In the case of religious everyone in the house of formation is equal. If you walk in, you can’t tell the difference between the men there. There is such a strong focus on brotherhood that the only time you see a difference is when it’s absolutely necessary. For example, for community mass, the ordained will put their stoles on. At a house chapter, those in perpetual vows get to vote and the religious in formation may speak, but not vote. There are no titles, except for the superior. Everyone is Jack, Mike, Don, Mark, etc.

In a diocesan seminary the seminarians are Mr., the deacons are either Deacon or Rev. Mr. and the ordained are Father. Unless there is a real friendship, the titles are used to deliniate your place.

Nonetheless, diocesan seminaries are fun places to be. The guys are awesome. They simply live in a very secular world of titles, ranks, rights and privileges.

Religious houses of theology are also fun places, but the guys live in a very non secular world without titles, no special privileges for anyone, very close communities where people work, eat, play, sleep and pray together. It’s at class time that the religious in formation go off to the school room. The other religious in the house go about their daily routine, whatever may be assigned to them.

The religious do not live at these colleges. After classes each religious goes back to his religious house. You don’t mix and match by putting Dominicans and Franciscans under the same roof. They live very differently. For example, the Dominicans chant the LOTH and the Franciscans recite it. Little things like that do not permit a mixing and matching under the same roof.

Having separate houses for formation is practical and prepares them for the realities in which they will live. Sometimes, there are not enough resources and religious and diocesan will shaer resources.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

Very interesting.

 

[ProVobis]

As we say in the world of interpreting “You can’t interpret what you don’t understand.” I think religious interpreting is some of the most challenging, and this is yet another reason why that is so, one I’d not thought of before.

I used to be an interpreter whenever a Polish dentist would come for a visit to us at the ADA many years ago. I could understand him or her but I couldn’t accurately convey that understanding to my colleagues as many times there was no common word or description of what was being discussed. I suggested using Latin more for the elements and other materials but all I got was a laugh. Thankfully, I’m not in the business of translating any more.

 

[Skeptic92]

Awesome! Please share.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

I can confirm that the numbers that most news services are reporting are way off, there was 1.1 million at the aerodrome for the final Mass at 2:00 in the afternoon the previous day, the gates were closed due to the place being way beyond capacity (the numbers said at the Aerodrome was closer to 2 million or beyond). There was not enough hosts at any of the organised Masses, the opening Mass they began breaking hosts after only about a quarter of the pilgrims had received, and I was the last to receive from a Priest in my group, and he had broken the hosts again into quarters, and this story was repeated in other areas where Communion was distributed, to the point I guess at least a quarter did not receive due to there simply being to little hosts.

I was actually disappointed, not with the mass. The liturgy was beautiful. I was disappointed with two events, the mass for seminarians and the meeting with the sisters. One of the friars said that the English translators messed up and that’s how things did not go the way that the Vatican wanted. Others think that it was deliberate by the lay translator.

The mass for the seminarians was not well attended by religious men studying to be priests. The way that the word was translated for the USA, it implied that only those studying to be priests at seminaries were invited. There were 4500 men attending and only about 200 were religious. In fact, there are about 2,000 religious men studying to be priests. Many of them were in Madrid. They did not register, because they don’t study at seminaries.

The miscommunication that one of the MFVA Franciscans tried to correct, but it was too late, was the meeting with the sisters. The way that it was communicated in English is not the same way that it was in other languages. In other languages it said, non-clerical religious. In the Enlglish speaking countries they published it as a meeting with sisters. Many young religious brothers did not register to attend. They found out that they were invited, when they arrived in Madrid. It was too late to register. You had to do so several months ago.

Fr. Mark Mary and Mr. Doug Barry were talking aboiut this meeting with the sisters. Standing next to them was Br. Tarcisius Marie, who is not a priest and is not going to be a priest, but who was going to the meeting. When Mr. Barry said something about the “meeting with the sisters this afternoon”, Fr. Mark looked over to his side and quickly said, “And religious brothers too.”

At first, there were some upset religious men. Now, it’s beginning to look more like the lay organizers were not well informed. The average lay person has no idea that most religious studying to be priests are not seminarians and no idea that a religious brother is not a seminarian, but a real religious. Many think that Brother is someone who is going to graduate to Father. It would not occur to Northerners to invite the brothers to a meeting with non clerical religious, because in their mind, the brothers are stuyding to be priests.

Whereas, the South Americans and Africans did send their brothers. Their communication had different wording, because they have never had the Father and Sister model of Church. They have many brothers, sisters, deacons and lay missionaries. What they lack are priests. They have many American, European, Canadian and Caribbean brothers.

Something was learned at this WYD. This too falls into the area of tradition. I think that the lay organizers were made more aware of the different traditions in the Church. Some were sad that certain people were excluded, because of poor use of language and a lack of understanding of the traditions.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

Some of Birminghams Seminarians had not been informed properly either, it took letters from our Archbishop to the organisors, the Archbishop of Madrid and to the Holy Fathers office while still in Birmingham, and in Madrid for some of our Seminarians to register for the Mass, but then again the organisational skills of our dioceses youth group was shown to be poor throughout the pilgrimage.

 

[ClayPots47]

If you don’t have any of the above available to you, then you attend a diocesan seminary or the seminary of a clerical congregation, if there is one in your area. In the case that you have to attend a diocesan seminary, arrangements are made so that you do not spend too much time with the diocesan seminarians. This avoids contamination with the secular world. Sometimes, the religious will have a house nearby and they go back and forth. If they have to live at the seminary, they live in a separate part of the building where they may have their own recreation space, meeting room and study hall. If they have to eat with the secular seminarians, they usually eat in the same dining room, but at a table by themselves. A perpetually professed religious is assigned to go with them or several. These men are responsible for their formation.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

When the Franciscan Friars of the Renewal had students at the seminary where I previously lived, they stayed at a house near the campus that they rented. I think there were 4 or 5 living there; one was not a student, probably the person overseeing their formation. The friars would be seen walking through town. They sometimes begged outside the local grocery store, for food items and baby items. They would ask patrons to buy just one item, most happily did. They would take the items to the local crisis pregnancy center and the food bank, which are both housed in the same building. They also took up collections from students at the university where the seminary is, and bring those too. Occasionally, they engaged in itinerant street preaching; and even went door to door through town; always asking for donations for the food bank and pregnancy center. There are quite a few rental houses near the campus, and many are occupied by religious studying at the university or seminary.

 

[ThatOneGuy92]

One lady was a hoot. She referred to the priest as Father. He corrected her and said, “I’m no longer Father. I’m Brother.” This sweet lady, who must be about 75, asked him, “What did you do to get demoted?”

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

I love stories like this!

 

[Mrs_Sally]

I can confirm that the numbers that most news services are reporting are way off, there was 1.1 million at the aerodrome for the final Mass at 2:00 in the afternoon the previous day, the gates were closed due to the place being way beyond capacity (the numbers said at the Aerodrome was closer to 2 million or beyond). There was not enough hosts at any of the organised Masses, the opening Mass they began breaking hosts after only about a quarter of the pilgrims had received, and I was the last to receive from a Priest in my group, and he had broken the hosts again into quarters, and this story was repeated in other areas where Communion was distributed, to the point I guess at least a quarter did not receive due to there simply being to little hosts.

We were also at the opening Mass–sitting on a street corner watching a jumbotron. We were close to a communion station, but even so heard that there was no more communion before we actually reached it. Thankfully, just before we turned away (difficult because of the crowd) another priest arrived and we were all able to receive.

We were traveling with a priest fronm our parish, so we did have Mass every day, even when we weren’t able to participate in the big events. Based on when we had planned to leave, we would not have gotten in at the airport for the vigil. But because a number of our group were ill from the heat, we weren’t able to go. We watched on TVs and were very thankful for our priest when we heard that most pilgrims did not receive communion Sunday morning because of logistics issues after the storm Saturday night.

Even though we weren’t part of those events, we did experience the catechism sessions, the way of the cross, the vocations event, and so much excitement!

 

[Skeptic92]

We were also at the opening Mass–sitting on a street corner watching a jumbotron. We were close to a communion station, but even so heard that there was no more communion before we actually reached it. Thankfully, just before we turned away (difficult because of the crowd) another priest arrived and we were all able to receive.

We were traveling with a priest fronm our parish, so we did have Mass every day, even when we weren’t able to participate in the big events. Based on when we had planned to leave, we would not have gotten in at the airport for the vigil. But because a number of our group were ill from the heat, we weren’t able to go. We watched on TVs and were very thankful for our priest when we heard that most pilgrims did not receive communion Sunday morning because of logistics issues after the storm Saturday night.

Even though we weren’t part of those events, we did experience the catechism sessions, the way of the cross, the vocations event, and so much excitement!

It wasn’t Logistic issues that caused there to be no Communion for the faithful not in the first two sections (A & B, invitation only and disabled pilgrims etc), it was the fact there wasn’t enough Priests! Many, Many, Many Priests, Bishops, Cardinals were turned away at the gates because the airport was at capacity, meaning most of the concelebrants that were to bring communion to the faithful, just wernt there!

I have to admit, the Spanish planning of the final event was shown to be terrible, there was people in the event without pilgrim passes, while pilgrims with passes were not able to attend exactly because the spanish volunteers let the locals in that didn’t have passes (N)

 

[JReducation]

When the Franciscan Friars of the Renewal had students at the seminary where I previously lived, they stayed at a house near the campus that they rented. I think there were 4 or 5 living there; one was not a student, probably the person overseeing their formation. The friars would be seen walking through town. They sometimes begged outside the local grocery store, for food items and baby items. They would ask patrons to buy just one item, most happily did. They would take the items to the local crisis pregnancy center and the food bank, which are both housed in the same building. They also took up collections from students at the university where the seminary is, and bring those too. Occasionally, they engaged in itinerant street preaching; and even went door to door through town; always asking for donations for the food bank and pregnancy center. There are quite a few rental houses near the campus, and many are occupied by religious studying at the university or seminary.

This is the usual case, when religious have to go to school at seminaries. Most people do not realize how important it is to keep secular seminarians and religious apart. What happens when yoiu blend secular men studying to be priests and consecrated religious studying to be priests is what anthroplogists call “contamination.” NO, it has nothing to do with germs.

It is important not to form secular priests in environments that are monastic or conventual with common liturgy of the hours, common daily mass, common meals, periods of silence, community recreation and community anything. These men are not going to live in communities. They’re going to live in rectories where they will have to pray on their own, decide when they want to go to mass, choose when to eat, pay someone to take care of their home, and if they live with another priest or two, they don’t have to interacgt at all. They don’t even have to like each other. That would be great if they did, but it’s not required. They have cooperate with each other and treat each other with fraternal respect. Some do become friends. Others move from one parish to another and never develop a relationship with each other and that’s OK too.

On the flipside, let’s use the Franciscans that our friend speaks about. You don’t want them in a seminary where the focus is on everything that has to do with the priesthood. At the end of this, they will be ordained and return to being brothers. They will not run parishes or work in too many parishes. They will beg for their food and for the poor. They will pray together, go to mass together, share meals, recreate together, preach on the streets, whether they are priests or not, it makes no difference to Franciscans, as long as you’re a Franciscan, you preach. They will not be permitted to stand out in any way. There is no external “priestly identity” for a Franciscan. When you see us, you’re not supposed to know who is a priest. You should see a friar, regardless of what kind of Franciscan you’re looking at.

Putting the guys in a secular seminary, where the focus is on being a priest is not realistic. They will probably be ordained, if the superior says so, but this priest may end up running a soup kitchen, not hearing Saturday confessions. He may end up an administrator at a pregnancy center or begging for a homeless shelter, not saying Sunday mass somewhere. It can be very disappointing, if they are formed to think “PREST”. They have to be trained to think “Brother who serves his brothers as priest”. The brother is put ahead. Diocesan seminaries don’t have this kind of environment.

That’s the reason for having separate living quarters or living off campus and attending class at the seminary or at a university inestead of a seminary. The ideal is to have a college of theology where several religious communities join forces.

We were also at the opening Mass–sitting on a street corner watching a jumbotron. We were close to a communion station, but even so heard that there was no more communion before we actually reached it. Thankfully, just before we turned away (difficult because of the crowd) another priest arrived and we were all able to receive.

We were traveling with a priest fronm our parish, so we did have Mass every day, even when we weren’t able to participate in the big events. Based on when we had planned to leave, we would not have gotten in at the airport for the vigil. But because a number of our group were ill from the heat, we weren’t able to go. We watched on TVs and were very thankful for our priest when we heard that most pilgrims did not receive communion Sunday morning because of logistics issues after the storm Saturday night.

Even though we weren’t part of those events, we did experience the catechism sessions, the way of the cross, the vocations event, and so much excitement!

I heard that the storm was worse than what we saw on TV. They had to redesign some paths and sections and these people were unable to receive Holy Communion because the ministers were unable to reach them. It was also said that many local people simplly showed up without registering. This happened in Australia and at Denver too. My guess that at other WYDs too. People procrastinate and then show up. The team has to be more forceful in turning them away to allow the ticketed pilgrims to enter.

On the other hand, it was good to see that they had more people than they counted on. It shows that the young are still with the Church. The situation is not as grim as some people like to paint it. The hard work is the follow-up.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[Mrs_Sally]

It wasn’t Logistic issues that caused there to be no Communion for the faithful not in the first two sections (A & B, invitation only and disabled pilgrims etc), it was the fact there wasn’t enough Priests! Many, Many, Many Priests, Bishops, Cardinals were turned away at the gates because the airport was at capacity, meaning most of the concelebrants that were to bring communion to the faithful, just wernt there!

I have to admit, the Spanish planning of the final event was shown to be terrible, there was people in the event without pilgrim passes, while pilgrims with passes were not able to attend exactly because the spanish volunteers let the locals in that didn’t have passes (N)

Yes, it is true that people without tickets got in and those with who arrived later did not. BUT, the storm was very severe and several tents were damaged. Those tents were sealed off for safety reasons, but inside a few were the pre-consecrated hosts staged to go out to the pilgrims in the farther sections. I don’t believe that the priests who had credentials to concelebrate and distribute were turned away (although others may have been).

I agree that enforcement of ticketing was not ideal, but I have heard that similar things have happened in previous years. The idea that there were HALF a MILLION more youth in Madrid than they had anticipated based on registrations and previous years, is very exciting. I doubt anyone short of military police could have easily handled that many extra people trying to get into an event that after all, is being held on an open field.

 

[Mrs_Sally]

I heard that the storm was worse than what we saw on TV. They had to redesign some paths and sections and these people were unable to receive Holy Communion because the ministers were unable to reach them. It was also said that many local people simplly showed up without registering. This happened in Australia and at Denver too. My guess that at other WYDs too. People procrastinate and then show up. The team has to be more forceful in turning them away to allow the ticketed pilgrims to enter.

On the other hand, it was good to see that they had more people than they counted on. It shows that the young are still with the Church. The situation is not as grim as some people like to paint it. The hard work is the follow-up.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

The storm was very severe. Even in downtown Madrid we got heavy rain and thunder. Several of the adoration tents were damaged and some folks hurt (although not too seriously). The estimates from Spanish news were half a million more pilgrims than expected and it appears that they had already increased numbers from the actual registrants. It was certainly very crowded!

We had many more than usual at yoth group last night when our returning pilgrims gave testimonies, so that was also very exciting!

 

[Skeptic92]

Yes, it is true that people without tickets got in and those with who arrived later did not. BUT, the storm was very severe and several tents were damaged. Those tents were sealed off for safety reasons, but inside a few were the pre-consecrated hosts staged to go out to the pilgrims in the farther sections.** I don’t believe that the priests who had credentials to concelebrate and distribute were turned away** (although others may have been).

I agree that enforcement of ticketing was not ideal, but I have heard that similar things have happened in previous years. The idea that there were HALF a MILLION more youth in Madrid than they had anticipated based on registrations and previous years, is very exciting. I doubt anyone short of military police could have easily handled that many extra people trying to get into an event that after all, is being held on an open field.

Actually, Priests (Bishops & Cardinals) that had all the credentials to concelebrate were turned away, including Archbishop Vincent Nichols, The Archbishop of Westminster and the dean of the CCBEW (Conference of Catholic Bishops of England and Wales), his whole diocese and all the priests that accompanied him, Leeds diocese and their Bishop had the same problem, I have heard the same story of other Priests, Bishops, and a Cardinal or two, who were due to concelebrate as well as whole dioceses’ turned away (Seminarians who came from my diocese from the Seminarian Mass were turned away, with their travel passes with us, they were forced to sleep in the nearby woods, at least were going to until His Grace Vincent Nichols found them).

 

[Mrs_Sally]

Actually, Priests (Bishops & Cardinals) that had all the credentials to concelebrate were turned away, including Archbishop Vincent Nichols, The Archbishop of Westminster and the dean of the CCBEW (Conference of Catholic Bishops of England and Wales), his whole diocese and all the priests that accompanied him, Leeds diocese and their Bishop had the same problem, I have heard the same story of other Priests, Bishops, and a Cardinal or two, who were due to concelebrate as well as whole dioceses’ turned away (Seminarians who came from my diocese from the Seminarian Mass were turned away, with their travel passes with us, they were forced to sleep in the nearby woods, at least were going to until His Grace Vincent Nichols found them).

Wow! I am so sorry to hear that. That is astonishing to me!

 

[Digital_Blue]

I wish there was a way to get that whole event on dvd.