Difference between a miracle and illusion

[stove]

This question is bothering me. Because satan and his demon’s can cause a person to hallucinate or see things that that he wants them to, how does one know if what he has seen is an actual miracle rather than a demonic apparition.

Please do not answer this question with: “because the Catholic Church tells us which are demonic and which are true miracles” or “If the Catholic Church has not approved the miracle, then it should be viewed as demonic or untrue.”

The reason I dont want answers like this is because I want to get to the root of the matter.

I am guessing that if it is a miracle from God, then the vision truly occurs. Examples are:

-The star in the sky to announce the birth of Christ was actually a new star visible to all people and not just a vision that appeared to a few persons.
-When Jesus changed water into wine at the wedding, the water truly became wine and was not just percieved to be wine.
-When the sea was parted by God for the slaves to escape, the sea was truly parted and not just an imagined vision.

Whereas if the devil was tempting somebody, his visions are only in peoples minds as opposed to true miracles. Like, he may be able to convince somebody that water has been changed to wine, that a new star appear has appeared in the sky, or the sea was parted, but it would only be a deception and not actual truth.

Am I on the right track?

 

[TNT]

The RCC admonishes its members to refrain from accepting visions. (See St John of the Cross, Doctor of the Church, concerning visions).
To answer your question, You reject all visions until the visions themselves prove they are real.

That proof is then examined by the Church and it is then up to her to authenticate it or not…
In other words, it’s up to the creator of the vision to prove its reality, not your personal belief in it.

If Joseph Smith would have realized this, we’d have no Mormon sect.

 

[stove]

My question is not answered. I said i didnt want to hear what the Church had to say. I want to know what is considered a miracle and what not.

To tell truth, what I am asking is what makes a miracle a miracle. My assumtion is if it only actually happens in the eyes of a few people, then it is a vision. If it happens in the eyes of the entire world, then it is a miracle.

Let me elaborate. If Jesus turned water into wine, but only a few people saw it was wine, that would be an illusion right? Or if God split the sea in half, and people walked into it and drowned, then it would have been an illusion. Or if the star that the 3 kings followed, only was to be seen by them, it would be an illusion.

RIGHT??? Those are miracles right? Because they really occurred. Physically. If only a few people experienenced those miracles, they wouldnt really have happened right? they would be illusion… Right?

 

[stove]

How is this a difficulty. I thought it would be answered without a question. If Jesus walks on water, yet only 4 people see he is walking on water and 90 people see him swimming. Its an illusion. If he walks on water, and the entire world can see that, then its a miracle. How is this hard? Would God ever create a Half-Hearted miracle where it wasnt really the truth? Nowhere in the bible can i see any evidence of that. Tell me if i am wrong.

 

[littleone]

How is this a difficulty. I thought it would be answered without a question. If Jesus walks on water, yet only 4 people see he is walking on water and 90 people see him swimming. Its an illusion. If he walks on water, and the entire world can see that, then its a miracle. How is this hard? Would God ever create a Half-Hearted miracle where it wasnt really the truth? Nowhere in the bible can i see any evidence of that. Tell me if i am wrong.

These I will relate to are miricals. Illusions can look Godley but that is where discernment comes in, and that is a gift look in Gallations 5: 22 and others, you have to ask for it.
Hi your question may be too hard for some to phrase appropriately in such a way that would be approved by the church, maybe not.
So I will share with you how I realized miracles and there is a difference between miracles and provision, which you probably know.

I was out side cleaning at work, the wind was blowing. I was reading a phrase of the bible that said “if I have faith the size of a mustard seed I can move mountains. Well I didn’t know what that meant but thought it must mean an obstacle in the way of a person’s faith or life. Oh ok so I looked up at the clouds and the wind and rebuked it in the name of Jesus Christ until I had finished my work. The wind stopped ok? Was this for real I tried it again on many occasions and it still happened, no problem.

I started exercising my right in Jesus name more and more. People started to become interested.
I went fishing and my mate said it was too rough we should turn back. Instantaneously I stood up and rebuked the waves and we carried on catching many fish my mate saying other boats were moving around because they couldn’t find a flat area. As soon as we had enough and turned back the water became rough.

I took 5 young youth out to play golf and it began to poor down a person stopped me telling me to turn back it was never going to stop raining. We carried on and I rebuked the rain for the time of our playing golf. We stopped opened the door it stopped raining and when we had finished got into the car it started to poor down again. One youth said Gee wayne I didn’t know Jeswus was that powerful!

I was (on three occasions) to go to prayer meeting in towns a long way from home and on one occasion I had no where to stay no money no way of getting there God’s providence came in and a person didn’t know how to get to the place there was my ride I got to the place I believed Jesus told me I would not be going home when the meeting (over two days) had finished when I got there I was told by the driver she was going home latter (three days latter) and there was my ride three days latter. At the meeting a youth told me I was to stay for three days and her parents would put me up. I did stay, I was asked if I would see a man who had been bed ridden for three years, on seeing him and speaking to him he got up and was well.

A woman wrang asked if I would see her my wife and I went, her back was giving her much pain, I told her she had one leg longer than the other Iprayed in Jesus name I saw the leg grow, and she was healed.

And the list goes on. So numerous are they, even on the phone, non Catholics as well, even a person given two days to live, and to an Anglican, by the use of the Green Scapular.
Providence is different but, incorporated at times with miricals.
I hope that helps some what.

 

[puzzleannie]

My question is not answered. I said i didnt want to hear what the Church had to say. I want to know what is considered a miracle and what not.

To tell truth, what I am asking is what makes a miracle a miracle. My assumtion is if it only actually happens in the eyes of a few people, then it is a vision. If it happens in the eyes of the entire world, then it is a miracle.
?

sounds good as far as the objective difference between a miracle and an illusion. not so definitive in regards to what is the origina of a vision. have you looked at the dictionary definition of each?

A miracle is an actual event in the natural world that has no natural explanation and that could only happen by supernatural intervention, such as a complete sudden irreversible cure of a dire medical condition (brain tumor or something), or the parting of the sea so dry land appeared. It has to be verified by independent observers with the competence to judge the condition before and after the miracle. That is why, for instance, the Church demands that compentent medical authorities review supposed miracles of healing at places like Lourdes, where fewer than 100 of all the claimed cures have actually been scientifically verified.

An illusion is something that is seen, or experienced in the other senses, by one or more people. it can be created and manipulated deliberately for entertainment or deceit (such as popular “magic” shows in Vegas). An operator manipulates objects, distracts the observer, and tricks the observer into processing sensory (name removed by moderator)ut to produce an image of something that did not really happen. An illusion can also be the product of an individual’s disturbed mental processes, caused by organic illness such as a tumor or by psychotic disorders. Just because the mind processes something through the sense to produce an image on the brain does not mean that the event actually happened.

A vision is essentially a private experience, although more than one person may perceive the sight or sound. This also can be the product of one’s disordered mental or physical condition, or it can have a natural origin such as discerning the face of Jesus on a taco or tree trunk, or rain water dripping on a statue through a leak in the roof. Or it can be deliberately manipulated and induced by any number of fraudulent means. Or it can be a genuine spiritual experience of a supernatural being. A supernatural experience is very rare, and can have either heavenly or demonic origin. That is why the Church demands careful investigation and disernment of supposed visions. Related to a vision is a locution, where an individual claims to hear speech or message, through the senses or internally, of supernatural origin.

I don’t know if the actual number of people who experience a phenomana is a criteria, but certainly some verification by objective observers is required, and that would not be possible with a vision experienced only by one or a few. You are also quite right that for an event to be a real miracle regarding the natural world, real natural measurable, quantifiable attributes that can be tested and observed must change.

 

[littleone]

Here is an illusion to a young girl. The young girl in question was being pesterd on many occasions her father called me to their house. Cutting this short, we prayed and in a place upon a tree the young girl screamed out to a person (it was actually a vision0 it was satin impersonation a beautiful young woman who had years ago been killed there. As the girl saw the vision also saw it and rebuked the words telling the girl what to say. She said what I told her in Jesus name and it disappeared. Satin can if God allows do things like this.
A short time ago I was in our shed and I could hear this kitten making a moise I called my girlfriend who also heard it. But it started moving to where a baby kitten could never be, it was then that I realized it was satin playing games. I rebuked hit in the name of Jesus and it stopped we went away.
Not all illusions are really illusions though. Our eyes can play tricks and also a little piece of hair in the eye can give what seems to be an illusion.
Once again discernment.
God’s gift.

 

[M-Dent]

This question is bothering me. Because satan and his demon’s can cause a person to hallucinate or see things that that he wants them to, how does one know if what he has seen is an actual miracle rather than a demonic apparition.

You gave one great reason why I trust the RCC in such matters. Especially since she takes her time with a long standing investigating, exercising prudence in discerning a few apparitions, worthy of belief. And then one is still not obligated to believe.

The devil may be brilliant at the art of deception yet the odds are good he stands a far better chance vs. an ‘individual’ (or small amount of ppl) than the Mystical Body of Christ.

 

[water]

To tell truth, what I am asking is what makes a miracle a miracle. My assumption is if it only actually happens in the eyes of a few people, then it is a vision. If it happens in the eyes of the entire world, then it is a miracle.?

First of all, miracle does not have to have entire world to see in order to consider it as miracle. How many times have you heard any story in which a very sick person was miraculously cured with no medical explanation? If this is not miracle, what do you consider it? a vision? no!

If you don’t want to hear from what the church say, then you can look at the fruit of this miracle/visions produce. If Satan can lure us, how long this miracle/visions last? Would God allow Satan to go that far to steal souls from those of the faithful ones - those who Love Virgin Mary, those who love the communion between Heaven and Earth. I don’t think so.

Many non-Catholic Christians believe that Virgin Mary’s appearances are demonic, but look at the fruits it has been producing? How many people got cured physically and spiritually? Thousands of people are turning to God each day. Do you think Satan want to have this happen. If he even does, how long do you think he stand it with his lie and seeing many people are back to God?

 

[AveSantaMaria]

Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with Thee. Blessed art Thou among women and blessed is the fruit of Thy womb, Jesus. Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death. Amen.