Difference between Liturgical and Religous Music

[JMJ_coder]

Hello,

I seems to me that there is a difference between what can be described as Sacred and/or Liturgical Music and Secular and/or Religious Music.

Sacred/Liturgical Music I would describe as that music which has a proper place in the celebration of the Holy Mysteries. This would include Chants, such as Gregorian, Polyphony, Byzantine, etc., the great Sacred Works of the Classical Greats, such as Mozart’s “Ave Verum Corpus”, and Sacred Hymns. Some examples of Sacred Hymns are “Holy God We Praise Thy Name”, “Hail, Holy Queen”, and “The Church’s One Foundation”.

To be considered for Sacred/Liturgical Music, I think certain criteria must be met. Of these would be included the solemn nature of the music, complete fidelity to Catholic doctrine with no ambiguities, fit in with the act of Catholic Worship, etc.

There is also Secular/Religious Music. I view this as any music that deals with a religious topic in a positive manner (no satanic metal music here, despite its graphic and vivid details of religious topics). While it can be argued that Sacred/Liturgical Music is a subset of this category, I’ll deal here with that music in this category that doesn’t fit into the above mentioned category. A good deal of the music from this category is good to listen to and should readily be promoted. But, due to various reasons this music should not be used in a liturgical manner. Perhaps the music is good, but it isn’t appropriately solemn, or fit in with the Mass. Some music in this category isn’t doctrinally sound or is filled with ambiguities, despite presenting itself in a positive manner.

 

[Sarabande]

I believe secular vocal music or instrumental music from a larger secular piece of work has no sacred or religious connotation whatsoever. It’s something that really shouldn’t be used during the Liturgy at all since there is no sacred/religious connotation. (Only absolute music would be permitted.) That would also apply to any “religious-themed” vocal music from let’s say a musical or an opera since they are secular compositions and stories.

But there is a difference between sacred and religious. Sacred meaning what you described and religious meaning music composed for spiritual/religious purposes such as a religious oratorio like “Elijah” or the “Messiah” or a piece of music with religious text or biblical text. It’s not considered secular.

I recently received an inquiry about a Catholic wedding, which I chose not to do and passed it up for a couple of reasons. They were given permission to have this song called “Only Hope” played during the wedding mass. The bride said that it was permitted because it was “religious”. I looked at the text and the only thing “religious” about it was that the singer was talking about praying “to be yours”. I thought that maybe they were talking about God, but I looked it up on YouTube and it was from a movie where the girl was singing to this guy. I never heard of the music until then, so I don’t know much background on it, but it didn’t even seem like a religious song to me and I know it wouldn’t even be permitted where I normally sing. But I guess the words are ambiguous enough for it to be construed as something religious. After seeing it in a movie, I would consider it secular, though, just as I would consider Desdamona’s “Ave Maria” aria (not the Schubert) from G. Verdi’s opera “Otello” as a secular piece even if it was a prayer in the opera.

Although, the Schubert is another thing. It was originally written as a religious piece of German lieder and the prayer is different in German - still a prayer to the Virgin, but not the actual Hail Mary. Whenever it is sung in Latin for the Hail Mary, people hardly ever sing the second part of the prayer. They always end it with the first part. Sometimes the priests or music directors don’t even want to bother with singing the second part to complete the prayer, which doesn’t make sense to me. If we’re going to sing the Ave Maria, do the entire prayer, especially if we are doing it during the months of Mary or as a meditation hymn/prayer. Although I love the Schubert as a piece of lieder, I personally prefer the Faure “Ave Maria”.

 

[JMJ_coder]

Hello,

But there is a difference between sacred and religious. Sacred meaning what you described and religious meaning music composed for spiritual/religious purposes such as a religious oratorio like “Elijah” or the “Messiah” or a piece of music with religious text or biblical text. It’s not considered secular.

When I mentioned secular, I was thinking in terms like some of the Christian rock that is currently available or even to songs like you mentioned that are so ambiguous that they can be thought of as religious (I Will Follow Him - and others - from the movie Sister Act come to mind).

I recently received an inquiry about a Catholic wedding, which I chose not to do and passed it up for a couple of reasons. They were given permission to have this song called “Only Hope” played during the wedding mass. The bride said that it was permitted because it was “religious”. I looked at the text and the only thing “religious” about it was that the singer was talking about praying “to be yours”. I thought that maybe they were talking about God, but I looked it up on YouTube and it was from a movie where the girl was singing to this guy. I never heard of the music until then, so I don’t know much background on it, but it didn’t even seem like a religious song to me and I know it wouldn’t even be permitted where I normally sing. But I guess the words are ambiguous enough for it to be construed as something religious. After seeing it in a movie, I would consider it secular, though, just as I would consider Desdamona’s “Ave Maria” aria (not the Schubert) from G. Verdi’s opera “Otello” as a secular piece even if it was a prayer in the opera.

Could be worse. I heard of a wedding where the recessional - mind you this was after taking their vows - was “Please release me, let me go - 'cause I don’t love you anymore”.

 

[Sarabande]

Could be worse. I heard of a wedding where the recessional - mind you this was after taking their vows - was “Please release me, let me go - 'cause I don’t love you anymore”.

Oh, boy!!! Kind of reminds me of how brides at one point used to want to have Andrew Lloyd Weber’s “Pie Jesu” from his Requiem “mass” sung at their wedding. It was apparently really popular. I absolutely adore Faure’s and Durufle’s setting of the “Pie Jesu”, but would never use it for a wedding.

Or this one bride having a Kyrie from one of Mozart’s masses sung by a choir as she processed down the aisle. Doesn’t make sense at that point at all as you are meeting the man you are about to marry, “Lord have Mercy, Christ have Mercy, Lord have Mercy”.

 

[dranzal]

Hello,

I seems to me that there is a difference between what can be described as Sacred and/or Liturgical Music and Secular and/or Religious Music.

Sacred/Liturgical Music I would describe as that music which has a proper place in the celebration of the Holy Mysteries. This would include Chants, such as Gregorian, Polyphony, Byzantine, etc., the great Sacred Works of the Classical Greats, such as Mozart’s “Ave Verum Corpus”, and Sacred Hymns. Some examples of Sacred Hymns are “Holy God We Praise Thy Name”, “Hail, Holy Queen”, and “The Church’s One Foundation”.

To be considered for Sacred/Liturgical Music, I think certain criteria must be met. Of these would be included the solemn nature of the music, complete fidelity to Catholic doctrine with no ambiguities, fit in with the act of Catholic Worship, etc.

---

For the record, I agree with you.

---

I know that many many musicians in choirs would argue that the Mass need not be solemn. After all, “It’s a celebration,” they would say, "not a funeral."

---

Also, many music leaders would argue that your criteria are subjective. Define “solemn” nature, they would say. One person’s pop and hip hop is another person’s solemn. “Shine, Jesus, Shine” can be sung in a solemn way," they say, "And just you show me where the Vatican has banned it for use in Liturgy."

There is also Secular/Religious Music. I view this as any music that deals with a religious topic in a positive manner (no satanic metal music here, despite its graphic and vivid details of religious topics). While it can be argued that Sacred/Liturgical Music is a subset of this category, I’ll deal here with that music in this category that doesn’t fit into the above mentioned category. A good deal of the music from this category is good to listen to and should readily be promoted. But, due to various reasons this music should not be used in a liturgical manner. Perhaps the music is good, but it isn’t appropriately solemn, or fit in with the Mass. Some music in this category isn’t doctrinally sound or is filled with ambiguities, despite presenting itself in a positive manner.

Perhaps they should have a commission to compile a fluid list of acceptable and unacceptable hymns.

 

[dranzal]

Oh, boy!!! Kind of reminds me of how brides at one point used to want to have Andrew Lloyd Weber’s “Pie Jesu” from his Requiem “mass” sung at their wedding. It was apparently really popular. I absolutely adore Faure’s and Durufle’s setting of the “Pie Jesu”, but would never use it for a wedding.

Or this one bride having a Kyrie from one of Mozart’s masses sung by a choir as she processed down the aisle. Doesn’t make sense at that point at all as you are meeting the man you are about to marry, “Lord have Mercy, Christ have Mercy, Lord have Mercy”.

Maybe it makes more sense than we know…

I think Andrew Lloyd Weber’s “Pie Jesu” is just beautiful, but I don’t know that it could be used at Mass.