Differences and commonalities between Catholic and Baha'i cosmology

[daler]

The most great peace is progressing. The fact that knowledge of God and His plan for the world, is breaking down barriers of bigotry is a sign of this progress

Indeed, if we look at the world of the mid-eighteen hundreds and today, you could hardly tell it is the same world. Humanity has been on a fast track. The abolition of slavery is world-wide after thousands of years, all but extinct, though a few examples remain in the darkest corners of the world. The equality of women and men has progressed phenomenally, relative to all of previously recorded history. Literacy is nearly universal in most countries, with a few still behind. Science has gone from pulling teeth with pliers and sawing off legs by semi-skilled butchers with crude instruments in infectious conditions to digital x-rays and micro-surgery. “Knowledge has increased” substantially and exponentially, with access to the information of the world accessible with the touch of a button on a computer. Inter-planetary probes have left the galaxy, launched decades ago, and we now know that planets out number the billions of stars in billions of galaxies.

The question may be posed: What is the stimulus behind this vast, exponential increase in human creativity, scientific advance, and movement towards international arbitration unheard of a century and a half ago? One must either be led to conclude it to be mere coincidence or that it is connected to some great catalyst which has released the latent capacity in mankind. Only God could affect a change in the human condition on such an all-encompassing scale, and God works through Prophets, the latest being Baha’u’llah, Who built upon the foundation laid by the Prophets of former times. When people realize that They act in concert, as successive divine Educators and as a team of perfectly skilled Physicians to mankind, perhaps the resolution of the major problems of the world will occur sooner, rather than later, and the needless suffering give way to the long awaited Peace promised in all the Holy Books.

. “We desire but the good of the world and the happiness of the nations; yet they deem Us a stirrer up of strife and sedition worthy of bondage and banishment…. That all nations should become one in faith and all men as brothers; that the bonds of affection and unity between the sons of men should be strengthened; that diversity of religion should cease, and differences of race be annulled—what harm is there in this?… Yet so it shall be; these fruitless strifes, these ruinous wars shall pass away, and the ‘Most Great Peace’ shall come…. Yet do We see your kings and rulers lavishing their treasures more freely on means for the destruction of the human race than on that which would conduce to the happiness of mankind…. These strifes and this bloodshed and discord must cease, and all men be as one kindred and one family…. Let not a man glory in this, that he loves his country; let him rather glory in this, that he loves his kind….”

from an interview with E.G. Brown from Cambridge University with Baha’u’llah in 1890
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[eddie_too]

Karl Marx was a strong proponent of a United world.

 

[Servant19]

Karl Marx was a strong proponent of a United world.

Yes but there was nothing related to Divinity, the soul and the spiritual aspects of man. Marx created a godless society.

Baha’u’llah is building a community, united globally and empowered heavily with the grace of God and the bestowals of the Holy Spirit.

There’s a big difference there eddie

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[daler]

Karl Marx was a strong proponent of a United world.

eddie,
. I agree with Servant, that Marx was attempting to promote a Godless material society, which neglected the spiritual nature of man and our “need” for God and religion.

. Consider what Isaiah wrote:

. “And many peoples will come and say, “Come, let us go up to the mountain of the Lord, To the house of the God of Jacob; That He may teach us concerning His ways And that we may walk in His paths.” For the law will go forth from Zion And the word of the Lord from Jerusalem. And He will judge between the nations, And will render decisions for many peoples; And they will hammer their swords into plowshares and their spears into pruning hooks. Nation will not lift up sword against nation, And never again will they learn war. Come, house of Jacob, and let us walk in the light of the Lord.”

 

[Servant19]

Dear brother, I am aware that at the end of this post you have expressed that you think we have exhausted this subject, and I respect your decision if you wish to move on, but I really believe a thorough exploration of commonalities between our “expressions” and “concepts” will provide such significant advancement in Baha’i and Catholic dialogue.

These citations that you are providing are likely little known by a large populace of the Catholic community, citations ranging from Exegetical Syntax of the New Testament to Saint Columba and Saint Bonaventure. These assist in a closer relationship between Baha’is and Catholics and may assist for a greater collaboration between its adherents.

Isn’t that something worth sifting through this subject exhaustively?

this is an area of learning for me, and for Baha’is in general

Maybe the word “manifest” was not correct for our shared understanding. Maybe “expressed” is a better word, I don’t know, but you can help me here

Remember in Fr. Barron’s video where he talked about Contingency etc? This is a way in which God’s attributes (only His relative/active attributes) are expressed in Creation, the way in which we can “see God’s back,” as it were…

So, for example, we see one of the active attributes of God is the All-Powerful, and this is manifested or expressed in the power of the lion or the power of a volcano, the All-Loving is manifested or expressed in the way plants are “drawn” to the sun, or how a mother loves her child.

This is why I think there is a difference between Gods absolute attributes and His relative/active attributes.

The relative attributes “DO SOMETHING” within Creation, and to some degree are seen within it, whereas the absolute attributes surround Creation.

The Surrounder does not enter the realm of the surrounded. God’s essence does not become “part” of Creation, but surrounds it, embraces it, and reaps its love into it through His active/relative attributes.

Yes brother, I understand that we can know of His aseity, and can deduce it by natural reason, of course

…but can His asiety be “expressed” within Creation, like His power and love are expressed?

However you wish dear brother and loved one, I am happy to explore any and all. But I do enjoy a thorough exploration, with “precision and clarity”, two very important qualities within the Baha’i Faith.

Baha’u’llah has stated categorically that He wants His adherents to “finish what they have started with excellence” (a bit of a paraphrase) but I strive to find completion in the subjects I explore

God bless you!

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Dear friends,

I am aware that brother Vouthon is currently snowed under with work and study committments.

I would really like to explore more deeply some of the themes that this thread was set up for, especially the two classifications of attributes of God and how they are manifested, expressed and emanated in Creation. the concept of “eternity” and Eternal Beings, etc.

I especially would like to explore why Jesus is deemed the “Word of God” and what therefore is the Bible, if not also the Word of God??

Feel free to express your thoughts here, and hopefully we can find some commonality and view the light that shines on a mutual path of worship

God bless!

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