Differences with Men and Women

[aball1035]

My friend came up to me today and started quoting St. Thomas Aquinas and Aristotle and the Bible itself, ‘proving’ that all 3 are sexist (she knows that I love Aquinas and Aristotle, and believe everything in the Bible).

She just came out of her “Woman’s Studies” class and supposedly they were talking about how most philosophers and the Catholic Church and Bible all are against women. She claimed that we think women is inferior and less than man.

I know the Bible teaches that both sexes have differences, but what is the Catholic teaching on those differences?

Not to be too philosophical, what ‘what is man’, and ‘what is women’ in relation to God?

 

[porthos11]

My friend came up to me today and started quoting St. Thomas Aquinas and Aristotle and the Bible itself, ‘proving’ that all 3 are sexist (she knows that I love Aquinas and Aristotle, and believe everything in the Bible).

She just came out of her “Woman’s Studies” class and supposedly they were talking about how most philosophers and the Catholic Church and Bible all are against women. She claimed that we think women is inferior and less than man.

I know the Bible teaches that both sexes have differences, but what is the Catholic teaching on those differences?

Not to be too philosophical, what ‘what is man’, and ‘what is women’ in relation to God?

For one, the plumbing is different.

Now that we have that out of the way, the Bible clearly teaches that man and woman are equal in dignity, having been created in the image and likeness of God. Moreover, the New Testament reinforces that in Galatians 3:28, that there is no difference between man and woman in the life of grace. So in terms of relationship with God, all are sons (and that includes women) of God in Christ.

But yes, St. Paul also teaches that women are to submit to their husbands and to “keep silent” in Church. Usually, people stop there and cry “sexist”, usually with Ephesians 5:22ff, when it actually gives men the harder job. The husbands are required to take Christ as their model, who “died for [the Church] and gave himself up for her.” In context, wives are called to submit themselves to their husbands, whose authority is a self-sacrificing, die-to-oneself-even-sometimes-literally kind of authority.

Who’s the lucky one, eh?

 

[CapIV]

Modern feminists seem to think that acknowledging femininity is sexist.

Abstractly (spiritually) men and women are the same.

Practically, men and women are obviously different. Take 100 pregnant women and stick them in the field and force them to do farm work and heavy lifting, and it doesn’t take a Thomistic scholar to tell you that this doesn’t seem to coincide with Natural Law!

Men have a function, women have a function. One of woman’s functions is childbirth. Without this (particularly beautiful) function, the human race doesn’t survive. Don’t blame Catholics or Aristotle, blame nature!

That said, Aristotle’s conclusions don’t always match his reasoning. Aristotelianism is much more important as a way of thinking as opposed to a specific conclusion of his.

 

[weepixie71]

if i may make a suggestion. there is a book that i have been studying along with my 11yr old daughter. it starts out with the modernist views, but beautifully points out the traditional views of women.
exp: adam and eve-if eve didnt give adam the apple then we would not know the love of Jesus Christ.
the name of the book is “The Privilege of Being a Women” by Alice von Hildebrand. it is short, only 108 pages.

I dont understand why it is so hard for women to embrace the beautiful way we are created. God made men different, hormones, muscles, thought process. yes even thought process. are we women not constantly shaking our heads at the way men go about things? is there not even a whole book written about it, “Men Are From Venus Women Are From Mars”?

 

[EasterJoy]

Practically, men and women are obviously different. Take 100 pregnant women and stick them in the field and force them to do farm work and heavy lifting, and it doesn’t take a Thomistic scholar to tell you that this doesn’t seem to coincide with Natural Law!

So you’re saying that the people running things in this country and over the course of history were selected based on their ability to do farm work and heavy lifting? It doesn’t take a Thomistic scholar to tell you that ability to do farm work doesn’t have much to do with the discussion.

Besides, what do men do when a load is too heavy for them? They figure out a different way to move it. Compare what a woman can move, what a man can move, what a team of draft animals can move, and what a locomotive can move, realize that the draft animals and locomotive aren’t particularly high on the decision-making tree, and the idea that ability to do farm work puts a man at the head of a family is simply ridiculous.

(Anybody have any idea what St. Thomas could lift? Does anyone want to venture why nobody cares?)

My younger brother once bounced home from school and informed me that “boys are better than girls.” Oh, really? Yes. Why, because they’re stronger and faster? Well, yes! See that horse over there, little brother? He was smart enough to get my point immediately, and dropped the argument.

My friend came up to me today and started quoting St. Thomas Aquinas and Aristotle and the Bible itself, ‘proving’ that all 3 are sexist (she knows that I love Aquinas and Aristotle, and believe everything in the Bible).

She just came out of her “Woman’s Studies” class and supposedly they were talking about how most philosophers and the Catholic Church and Bible all are against women. She claimed that we think women is inferior and less than man.

I know the Bible teaches that both sexes have differences, but what is the Catholic teaching on those differences?

Not to be too philosophical, what ‘what is man’, and ‘what is women’ in relation to God?

Words make a great deal of difference in philosophical debate, so let’s not let this woman get down the track without defining exactly what she means by the word “sexist”. Otherwise, she will be able to move the lines and change the rules as she goes. You will never win.

Does she think it means men and women are the same? This is obviously nonsense. If men and women are the same, why do OB/GYNs exist? Ask her to find a single OB/GYN, male or female, who is willing to say such a silly thing. She will not find one who will say that we differ only in plumbing. The neurological differences are established in fact. That cultures recognize this should surprise no one. (The truth is, OB/GYNs will tell you that, from a neurological standpoint, there are three genders: men, women, and pregnant women!)

Now, she will undoubtedly be able to find philosophers, including those above, who wrote things *that can be interpreted *to be misogynistic and/or unjust towards us women, if that is what she means by sexist.

Fine. You will probably not be required to prove your own counter contention that you could find plenty of icons of women’s rights who have spouted things like, “A woman without a man is like a fish without a bicycle.” Is that not sexist, too? What’s the deal with that? Is there a different standard by which modern women may criticize men than by which men in a different age could criticize women? Must both be perfectly fair, without even an unconscious bias towards their own gender, and so careful with words as to be free of humor in order to escape the label of “sexist”? Or do only women get to have a sense of humor about the opposite sex?

The trouble with men and women is that we’re all too human!

 

[NeedImprovement]

Fr. John Corapi put it in a nutshell and it reflects perfectly what porthos11 and CapIV said:

Men and women are absolutely equal in dignity, but they are different in function (Fr. Corapi added here) “… and some of the differences run soul-deep.”

Another way I’d heard it put, repeatedly during homilies is that it is the ***man and the woman together *** which gives us our most accurate image of God [Genesis 1:27 ; 5:2 ].

I’m a man. If I had been forced to give an answer as to which sex I thought to be the superior one, considering the great scheme of things, I would have answered “women” . The pure and simple truth is that (after God Himself) it is a woman who holds the highest place in heaven; so much so that St. Louis de Montfort, in his book TRUE DEVOTION TO MARY, says that Mary’s place in heaven is so elevated above the other saints and angels that,"…with one sigh she can mobilize all the forces of heaven."

(I definitely need Her in my corner)

 

[weepixie71]

So you’re saying that the people running things in this country and over the course of history were selected based on their ability to do farm work and heavy lifting? It doesn’t take a Thomistic scholar to tell you that ability to do farm work doesn’t have much to do with the discussion.

Besides, what do men do when a load is too heavy for them? They figure out a different way to move it. Compare what a woman can move, what a man can move, what a team of draft animals can move, and what a locomotive can move, realize that the draft animals and locomotive aren’t particularly high on the decision-making tree, and the idea that ability to do farm work puts a man at the head of a family is simply ridiculous.

(Anybody have any idea what St. Thomas could lift? Does anyone want to venture why nobody cares?)

My younger brother once bounced home from school and informed me that “boys are better than girls.” Oh, really? Yes. Why, because they’re stronger and faster? Well, yes! See that horse over there, little brother? He was smart enough to get my point immediately, and dropped the argument.

Words make a great deal of difference in philosophical debate, so let’s not let this woman get down the track without defining exactly what she means by the word “sexist”. Otherwise, she will be able to move the lines and change the rules as she goes. You will never win.

Does she think it means men and women are the same? This is obviously nonsense. If men and women are the same, why do OB/GYNs exist? Ask her to find a single OB/GYN, male or female, who is willing to say such a silly thing. She will not find one who will say that we differ only in plumbing. The neurological differences are established in fact. That cultures recognize this should surprise no one. (The truth is, OB/GYNs will tell you that, from a neurological standpoint, there are three genders: men, women, and pregnant women!)

Now, she will undoubtedly be able to find philosophers, including those above, who wrote things *that can be interpreted *to be misogynistic and/or unjust towards us women, if that is what she means by sexist.

Fine. You will probably not be required to prove your own counter contention that you could find plenty of icons of women’s rights who have spouted things like, “A woman without a man is like a fish without a bicycle.” Is that not sexist, too? What’s the deal with that? Is there a different standard by which modern women may criticize men than by which men in a different age could criticize women? Must both be perfectly fair, without even an unconscious bias towards their own gender, and so careful with words as to be free of humor in order to escape the label of “sexist”? Or do only women get to have a sense of humor about the opposite sex?

The trouble with men and women is that we’re all too human!

why do you think that it is so wrong for men to have their roles and women to have their roles? because women have taken over these manly roles, it has left men more confused than ever. and who are suffering for it?, the children!!!
studies show that if the father of the family does not go to church that no matter how often the mother makes them go when they become adults more do not continue going to church than do. why is this? because God made them leaders of the family.

fisheaters.com/menandchurch.html

im not saying that women can not accomplish anything a man can do. of course we can, just as well as a man can do the job of women. but like it or not God gave us roles. to not follow those roles hurts the marriage and the children.
tell me how a woman who works from the time a child goes to school and isnt home till 5:30 or 6, gets children to sports, helps with homework, and have to prepare supper, really make time to communicate? how do you know your child? children are raising themselves and look at the news, how good of a job are they doing?

as far as the men running the country, sounds like to me since they have been listening to women the country has gone to hell in a hand basket. men are struggling to find jobs to provide for their families, birth control pills have soiled our childrens waters and making them sterile, abortion, etc.

 

[LeroyCRHP]

I’ve never heard this example that is is good that Eve tricked Adam into eating the apple so we get to know Jesus. I’ll check the library for that book. The reviews are also great and this might be a good book for my 13 year old daughter.

if i may make a suggestion. there is a book that i have been studying along with my 11yr old daughter. it starts out with the modernist views, but beautifully points out the traditional views of women.
exp: adam and eve-if eve didnt give adam the apple then we would not know the love of Jesus Christ.
the name of the book is “The Privilege of Being a Women” by Alice von Hildebrand. it is short, only 108 pages.

I dont understand why it is so hard for women to embrace the beautiful way we are created. God made men different, hormones, muscles, thought process. yes even thought process. are we women not constantly shaking our heads at the way men go about things? is there not even a whole book written about it, “Men Are From Venus Women Are From Mars”?

 

[EasterJoy]

why do you think that it is so wrong for men to have their roles and women to have their roles? because women have taken over these manly roles, it has left men more confused than ever. and who are suffering for it?, the children!!!
studies show that if the father of the family does not go to church that no matter how often the mother makes them go when they become adults more do not continue going to church than do. why is this? because God made them leaders of the family.

fisheaters.com/menandchurch.html

im not saying that women can not accomplish anything a man can do. of course we can, just as well as a man can do the job of women. but like it or not God gave us roles. to not follow those roles hurts the marriage and the children.
tell me how a woman who works from the time a child goes to school and isnt home till 5:30 or 6, gets children to sports, helps with homework, and have to prepare supper, really make time to communicate? how do you know your child? children are raising themselves and look at the news, how good of a job are they doing?

as far as the men running the country, sounds like to me since they have been listening to women the country has gone to hell in a hand basket. men are struggling to find jobs to provide for their families, birth control pills have soiled our childrens waters and making them sterile, abortion, etc.

I’m a stay-at-home mom with a PhD in chemistry; my kids are in gradeschool. I don’t stay home so that we can rush through dinner and show up late for religious education so we’ll have enough hours each week to hand our kids over to a soccer coach. You’re preaching to the choir on that one. (Or maybe you’d find I’d preach to you? )

My feeling is that not only do women and men not produce the same work, but that no two men do. We’re not interchangeable cogs. We each have a vocation from God, and yes, God’s call comes to a woman and will be expressed by a woman differently than it will for a man. Not only is a mom not a dad: a nun is not a monk, either. We’re not in heaven yet, living like the angels.

My point is that I’d like you to find a century in our history when politics were not hellbound in a handbasket. It is that humanity thing. You’ll not find people, male or female, as willing as necessary to “let go and let God” once they have control of things. Let’s not romanticize either sex, then, OK?

My point is also that I’ll not blame today’s ills on women any more than I will blame slavery and those sweat shops that turned little children into the cogs of an industrial machine on men. Was the first half of our century all that much to brag about? For that matter, would you absolve English women of all responsibility for the Irish Potato Famine? Were they so powerless and ignorant as that, even back then, before “modernism” rose? I don’t believe it. I don’t believe for a minute that men haven’t had a hand in encouraging their women to go on birth control, either. We don’t have a nation of men saying, “Please, honey, let’s have more babies; you know I’ll always be there with you.” Ha. And are you really arguing that women are running things now? Oh, not by a long shot. It took two to bite this apple.

Those ills didn’t come from the gender of the people running things. Queens were not more adverse to war than the kings were, either. You would be hard put to say that the Virgin Queen Elizabeth was more or less “feminine” in her rule than Victoria, mother of so many. Those women built empires, and no doubt about that.

This blaming thing between men and women really needs to stop. Does no one remember what got us pitched out of Paradise?

 

[seekdatruth]

why do you think that it is so wrong for men to have their roles and women to have their roles? because women have taken over these manly roles, it has left men more confused than ever. and who are suffering for it?, the children!!!
studies show that if the father of the family does not go to church that no matter how often the mother makes them go when they become adults more do not continue going to church than do. why is this? because God made them leaders of the family.
**LOL! No amount of submission to my husband will convince him to go to church. He doesn’t want to–end of story. On the contrary, I do better at getting what I want when things are REFUSED. lol
**

fisheaters.com/menandchurch.html

im not saying that women can not accomplish anything a man can do. of course we can, just as well as a man can do the job of women. but like it or not God gave us roles. to not follow those roles hurts the marriage and the children.
tell me how a woman who works from the time a child goes to school and isnt home till 5:30 or 6, gets children to sports, helps with homework, and have to prepare supper, really make time to communicate? how do you know your child? children are raising themselves and look at the news, how good of a job are they doing?
What if the man is the one who does better at home and the wife does better at a job outside the home? I’ve known quite a few couples who were in this situation. and THRIVE, and their children do too. They are all of them still very recognizable as to what gender they are, but then why should anyone care if a married woman looks attractive to someone other than her husband?

as far as the men running the country, sounds like to me since they have been listening to women the country has gone to hell in a hand basket. men are struggling to find jobs to provide for their families, birth control pills have soiled our childrens waters and making them sterile, abortion, etc.
Ever see the look on a man’s face when a woman breaks the news to him that she hasn’t been using the pill? The pill is so convenient for men in this fallen society, whom would rather not get married and don’t care about the health effects on women and children. Women bury their natural desire for a committed, lasting relationship, because of the pressure we feel from MEN. Yes, MEN! Want what they want, and we better keep up or we’re on one lonely road. Ideally, we would all be committed to Christ and so lonliness wouldn’t matter. Wait—we’re supposed to let the MEN do that and we just submit to them.

 

[NeedImprovement]

…
My feeling is that not only do women and men not produce the same work, but that no two men do. We’re not interchangeable cogs. We each have a vocation from God, and yes, God’s call comes to a woman and will be expressed by a woman differently than it will for a man. Not only is a mom not a dad: a nun is not a monk, either. We’re not in heaven yet, living like the angels.

…

Thanks so much EasterJoy. That entire post was fantastic - LOL’ed so many times. The section quoted above made me smile so much my face is hurting.

 

[nablaise]

The Catholic view is that the Jesus washes the feet of his disciples. That a man is basically suposed to do the same to this wife, as the mother is supposed to do the same to his child.

In dignity all are equal because they are all fully human.
There is not other dimension except charity. Their superiority/inferiority they are thinking about exist only in the fallen world.

In the Church we have what we call ‘presiding in charity’. In Church whatever you have, you use it for love for the glory of God.
What wo/man have, they use it to maximum for the benifit of the other. That’s all.

In grace they are simply equal. Out of grace, of course they are not equal, the curse of Eden applies. This is probably where she is coming from. But again, the Church may be teaching the story of the curse, but the evidence is everywhere.

400 The harmony in which they had found themselves, thanks to original justice, is now destroyed: the control of the soul’s spiritual faculties over the body is shattered; the union of man and woman becomes subject to tensions, their relations henceforth marked by lust and domination.282 …

CCC

 

[Cat]

My friend came up to me today and started quoting St. Thomas Aquinas and Aristotle and the Bible itself, ‘proving’ that all 3 are sexist (she knows that I love Aquinas and Aristotle, and believe everything in the Bible).

She just came out of her “Woman’s Studies” class and supposedly they were talking about how most philosophers and the Catholic Church and Bible all are against women. She claimed that we think women is inferior and less than man.

I know the Bible teaches that both sexes have differences, but what is the Catholic teaching on those differences?

Not to be too philosophical, what ‘what is man’, and ‘what is women’ in relation to God?

I think this is funny. The CATHOLIC Church (not the Protestant churches) recognizes the amazing role that Mary the Mother of God played and still plays in our salvation and the redemption of the universe. She has been given almost as many titles as Jesus, including “Co-Redemptrix” and “Mediatrix of All Graces.” We constantly ask for the prayers of the Blessed Mother. We beautify our churches with images and statues of Mary. We wear medals with her image. We honor her as the Queen of Heaven and Earth. We celebrate feast days in her honor.

As an ex-Protestant, I feel that this glorification of Mary is correct and appropriate. Only in the Catholic Church did I come to realize that importance of the Incarnation of Our Lord Jesus, and Mary’s vital role in His Incarnation. She held the redemption of all the earth in her hands when she was approached by the angel Gabriel. She could have said “No,” and we would be wretched in our sins.

Throughout history, women have attempted to imitate Mary, and many have been canonized as saints and Doctors of the Church. So we keep the memory of these women alive with images, too, and ask them to pray for us and celebrate their feast days and read their writings and try to imitate them.

Almost every Catholic church in our city is named after a woman. Many churches in Chicago are named after women.

And then there’s NFP, the ONLY acceptable child-spacing method in the Catholic Church. This method is based on honoring the fertility of women. A man can’t just “do it” with his woman anytime he wants it.

Finally, the Catholic Church honors women by not allowing them to become priests, the vocation of complete humble servitude. When we see a priest, we see Jesus, however, a woman gets to retain her identify. (I hope I expressed that correctly. Perhaps someone else can explain this.)

And they say the Catholic Church doesn’t honor women!!!

(Psst–somebody needs to tell Jack T. Chick that we don’t honor women!)

There are very few women honored in the Protestant churches, and most of them are contemporaries like Ruth Bell Graham, Evelyn Christensen, Gloria Gaither, Amy Grant, Sandi Patty, Beth Moore, etc. There are a few women of the “past” e.g., Corrie ten Boom, Amie Semple McPherson, Evangeline Booth, etc. But the honor given these women is nothing compared to what the Catholic Church does for women.

 

[weepixie71]

there are some men who manage a home and love it. i do not believe this is the norm though, especially men with large families.

a mans role is to be spiritually, financially, and emotionally responsible for his family. this is how society down through the ages has determined if a man is successful or not. it is one thing for a woman to step in if the man is not capable but to do so when a man is capable you take away a pride from him that needs to be there for him to get respect from other men in his society and a certain respect from his children .

as for the pill, any man who asks a woman to take the pill with the info that is out there has serious issues. the pill is proven to sometimes cause abortions, and also has been proven to cause multiple different cancers for women. and women should be introducing him to the natural family plan. seriously, if he can not abstain for 5days you have bigger issues than not wanting more children .

i have no problem with women in politics and the work force. but i personally believe that women need to make a choice. being a mother is a full time job. it is a physically, and mentally exhausting job when done right. you can not work two full time jobs and expect a good outcome. children are not dumb. they know if the mother has to work to help put food on the table and a roof over their head or if she is working to keep nice things in the house. if the woman is working so they can have 2 or 3 cars and a big house and a television in every childs room, i find this irresponsible and the children resent.

 

[seekdatruth]

there are some men who manage a home and love it. i do not believe this is the norm though, especially men with large families.

a mans role is to be spiritually, financially, and emotionally responsible for his family. this is how society down through the ages has determined if a man is successful or not. it is one thing for a woman to step in if the man is not capable but to do so when a man is capable you take away a pride from him that needs to be there for him to get respect from other men in his society and a certain respect from his children .

as for the pill, any man who asks a woman to take the pill with the info that is out there has serious issues. the pill is proven to sometimes cause abortions, and also has been proven to cause multiple different cancers for women. and women should be introducing him to the natural family plan. seriously, if he can not abstain for 5days you have bigger issues than not wanting more children .
**Yes, it is a HUGE issue, and widespread. Men who do not feel they need to be “served” (for lack of a better word) in this way are RARE! Ideally, all men would be so loving and considerate, yet that is NOT what is the “NORM”. **

i have no problem with women in politics and the work force. but i personally believe that women need to make a choice. being a mother is a full time job. it is a physically, and mentally exhausting job when done right. you can not work two full time jobs and expect a good outcome. children are not dumb. they know if the mother has to work to help put food on the table and a roof over their head or if she is working to keep nice things in the house. if the woman is working so they can have 2 or 3 cars and a big house and a television in every childs room, i find this irresponsible and the children resent.
**I agree. I stay home for this reason. I don’t care about extra “stuff” and put my children first, yet In total isolation, this is not always a good thing for me or my children, since day-in-day-out contact with my children and them only, causes burn-out. If my husband and I could both work part-time and still provide for the family and have one of us at home all the time, that would be wonderful. Such is not always realistic these days. There are so many situations where the “traditional” and the ideal are not possible or appropriate. To put us all into a cookie-cutter is wrong and demoralizing. To blame all of society’s ills on the woman is ridiculous. Woman’s desire for equality and respect has allowed us to be exploited for the satisfaction of men who are still boys. Under the guise of woman’s freedom they tell us: “You have a RIGHT to abort your baby!” “You have a RIGHT to use BC!” HORRIBLE! Yet this is what society tells us. Oh well, if we were all Catholics (GOOD Catholics) we’d all have the right morals and values, Right? Better start evangelizing instead of creating divides then! Getting into or BACK into the Catholic Church is like getting a camel through the eye of a needle, I SHOULD KNOW, and if you’re asleep in your Catholic cradle you don’t see this. WAKE UP! **

 

[PJM]

aball1035;4772003]My friend came up to me today and started quoting St. Thomas Aquinas and Aristotle and the Bible itself, ‘proving’ that all 3 are sexist (she knows that I love Aquinas and Aristotle, and believe everything in the Bible).

She just came out of her “Woman’s Studies” class and supposedly they were talking about how most philosophers and the Catholic Church and Bible all are against women. She claimed that we think women is inferior and less than man.

I know the Bible teaches that both sexes have differences, but what is the Catholic teaching on those differences?

**Not to be too philosophical, what ‘what is man’, and ‘what is women’ in relation to God?/**QUOTE]

Equal and the same

What makes us “different is physiological” issues relating to men and women.

It is these very same difference that attract us to each other

God created us as equals, but with dirrerent roles to fulfill and has given each of the sexes. gifts and Characteristics to aid us in fullfilling these different roles.

But God knows, and I know ya can’t have one without the other:thumbsup: THANK YOU GOD!

One sex is NOT better or superior to the other, JUST different.

The Catholic catechism:

“383 “God did not create man a solitary being. From the beginning, “male and female he created them” (Gen 1:27). This partnership of man and woman constitutes the first form of communion between persons” (GS 12 § 4).”

2334 “In creating men ‘male and female,’ God gives man and woman an equal personal dignity.” “Man is a person, man and woman equally so, since both were created in the image and likeness of the personal God.”

“355 “God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him, male and female he created them.” Man occupies a unique place in creation: (I) he is “in the image of God”; (II) in his own nature he unites the spiritual and material worlds; (III) he is created “male and female”; (IV) God established him in his friendship.”

Your friend is however correct in that the Middle East Culture, even today, unjustly religates women to a lesser place." It’s amazing to me how often and how quickly that changes if they come to America, and look at the progress women have made in Iraq

Our God is an awesome God!

 

[seekdatruth]

Our family motto:
When in doubt, stick with tradition.

When there is no doubt, why be a mindless drone?

 

[weepixie71]

it sounds like we agree on just about everything so i dont know what exactly i have to wake up to in your eyes. but ive learned long ago not to worry what people think of me being a conservative catholic in a very liberal society.

 

[weepixie71]

When there is no doubt, why be a mindless drone?

we say when in doubt because my husband and i sincerely doubt that it makes the Lord happy to worship a mass that is so protestant like and stripped of its catholicism , so to be safe we stick with the traditional mass that so many great saints came from because we know this mass for sure pleases God.

i think your statement calling me and my family mindless drones was very rude. it might have been nicer just to ask why we say that.