Different points on the journey

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cleofet

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:o I am not sure how to put this question out there. I am 52 my husband is 53 we have been married for 28 years. Over the last 5 or so years I have tried to learn more about my Catholic faith and have tackled many of the occasions of sin that I struggle with. Many of these things I really did not know were a mortal sin. At one point in time a Priest had told me that whatever a married couple does while making love is fine. Now, although I don’t fully understand why some of these things are wrong I have been trying to abstain from them. I have done pretty good on most things. There is a problem that is brewing. Part of our (my husband and I) lovemaking has been mutual manual stimulation occasionally to the point of climax. I have recently (the past 6-8 months) read in several places that stimulation to the point of climax for is a mortal sin, interfering with God’s decision to give us children. We have four adult children the youngest of which is 22. I went through menopause more then 9 years ago so the opportunity to get pregnant again is gone. My husband thinks I am nuts for the changes that I am trying to make. He also feels hurt and abandoned. He is not very open to reading or talking about what the Church says on things dealing with sex. I have tried to explain it to him but since I am struggling with it myself because I want to make him happy but at the same time I don’t want to hurt God I really don’t know what to do. Any suggestions? I pray about it every day and every night when we go to bed. I have been avoiding going to bed when he does so as not to put myself into the situation of making a choice. I guess I have a lot of misconceptions about sex and I am very embarrassed to talk face to face with anyone. I was thinking about going to a Catholic Therapist but I am not sure how to find one.:o
 
You sound like such a conscientious person. 🙂

First, I really reccommend the book, The Good News About Sex & Marriage by Christopher West. He explains in very clear terms exactly what is permissible between a husband and wife during marital love.

A few things to keep in mind for now, however, before you are able to get the book:
  1. Every act must be life-giving and love-giving. This means that it must respect your spouse and be something you BOTH want to do. It also means that it must not thwart the possibility of conception, however miraculous it would be in your case. 😉
  2. Mutual masturbation as foreplay is perfectly fine, as long as your husband climaxes within you vaginally. A wife is allowed to have an orgasm outside of intercourse because it does not thwart the possibility of conception. However, it needs to be either directly before, during or after intercourse.
  3. Oral stimulation as foreplay is fine, as long as your husband climaxes in the right place. Again, this does not apply to the wife and she is welcome to climax from it within a love-making session with her husband, as long as it ends with your husband climaxing in the right place.
Ask God to open your husband’s heart and mind as well as his actions about this situation! 🙂
 
Priness Abby said it all very well, and I have nothing to add.

I will, however, second her suggestion of Christopher West’s book. It really helped my hubby and I to understand the Church’s position on this issue.

Malia
 
Feanaro's Wife:
Priness Abby said it all very well, and I have nothing to add.

I will, however, second her suggestion of Christopher West’s book. It really helped my hubby and I to understand the Church’s position on this issue.

Malia
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I have read Christopher West’ book and that is where I learned most of what the Church has to say about married love and sex but getting my husband to read it is another story. All he knows is we did it before and now we (I) don’t. It is a struggle for me and I pretty much understand why it is a sin but for him it is even harder since he really hasn’t been taught what is and isn’t against God’s law. These things were not done to use the other person but to make them feel good and relaxed. We truly love each other. I am going to try to read him parts from the book and see if that helps him realize that it has nothing to do with my love for him but that now I know it is a sin and I am trying to live my life the right way. Even though I guess this seems like a little problem to most people I really don’t want to hurt my husband and I am a little afraid that it might turn into a bigger problem. Thanks for your concern. God Bless!
 
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cleofet:
I have read Christopher West’ book and that is where I learned most of what the Church has to say about married love and sex but getting my husband to read it is another story.

I see a problem with this…as I’m sure you do. You say you truly love eachother, but your post only demonstrates your true love for him.

He should be more than willing to explore that which is so important to you, not out of his own interest, but because he loves you.

Don’t get me wrong, I am not saying he doesn’t love you. I am just trying to point out that you are doing your best to consider his feelings and trying to get him to understand how important this decision is to both of your souls, while he is stuck on his own feelings of rejection.

I wish I had some great words of wisdom to offer that would help you. All I can suggest is to practice charity when dealing with him (as you are) but to also stand firm on your beliefs, as God always comes first.

And pray pray pray! If you ever needed the help of the Holy Spirit it is now!

I cannot say that I know what you are going through, but I can tell you that I was in your husband’s position and it was my hubby who was trying to steer me onto the right path.

It took alot of patience and prayer on his part, and he never waivered from his convictions. I began to admire him for that, instead of holding on to the resentment. I pray that your husband will come to the same understanding that I did.

If you feel that this is going to cause bigger problems, maybe seek out a Catholic therapist now to address any issues before they can become really destructive.

malia
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I can understand how uncomfortable you might feel talking face-to-face with a priest about the matter! Even though I know they deal with this stuff all the time, my embarrassment would probably still get the better of me. If you’re serious about getting a good Catholic therapist, go to catholictherapists.com and do a search for your area.
 
Huge agreement on Christopher West!

Also great is St. Francis de Sales “Introduction to the Devout Life” (there’s actually several chapters on marital relationship and chastity).

Also, cleofat, my husband’s thinking along the same lines as your’s is(though he obstains to respect my wishes). He has agreed to read de Sales book with me though (as it is by a doctor of the Church 👍 ). Maybe this could help?
k
 
Thanks for all the feedback. My husband is a good man but like so many of our generation we missed out on a lot of the teachings of the Church. We are like babes in the woods trying to grasp on to the true meaning of being and living Catholic. He doesn’t force me to do anything but he will make jokes now and then saying I am teasing him when all I am doing is getting out of the shower or getting ready for bed. Trust me neither of us is physically irresistible. After 4 children with in a 7-year period my body has rebelled and I look like I am perpetually with child. I will stick to my guns on this and as I had said before I will try to start reading Christopher West’s’ book to my husband since he doesn’t like to read and maybe we could discuss it as we go. I think he will come around eventually. If anyone has anymore thought or ideas on this please post them here. Please keep us in your prayers once in awhile if you think about it. Thanks again!
 
well…

i believe… and i know this is gonna make some people upset
with me… that there is a difference in what happens when you
are making love, and spontaniously do things to each other
that causes … things to happen…

and deliberately trying to interfere with procreation…

sometimes we make things too … complicated…

in the strictest sense, that would make pe a sin… and i don’t think it is, because there is no desire to prevent procreation…

does that make any sense to you?

🙂
 
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johnshelby:
well…

i believe… and i know this is gonna make some people upset
with me… that there is a difference in what happens when you
are making love, and spontaniously do things to each other
that causes … things to happen…

and deliberately trying to interfere with procreation…

sometimes we make things too … complicated…

in the strictest sense, that would make pe a sin… and i don’t think it is, because there is no desire to prevent procreation…

does that make any sense to you?

🙂
Click to expand...
None whatsoever.
 
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johnshelby:
well…

i believe… and i know this is gonna make some people upset
with me… that there is a difference in what happens when you
are making love, and spontaniously do things to each other
that causes … things to happen…

and deliberately trying to interfere with procreation…

sometimes we make things too … complicated…

in the strictest sense, that would make pe a sin… and i don’t think it is, because there is no desire to prevent procreation…

does that make any sense to you?

🙂
Click to expand...
If what you mean is that a man who once in a while finishes prematurely and in the wrong place is not sinning by doing so, the Church agrees with you. (I assume by “pe” you mean “premature e*********n.”) We are told to take caution that these “accidents” do not become a regular thing, and if they tend to occur frequently to altogether stop the behavior that causes them. But cleofet is not talking about accidents, rather something she and her husband used to do deliberately. In that case, it is always a sin.
 
hmm… this is something i was totally unaware of…

i was baptised at Easter… really still learning…

🙂
 
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johnshelby:
hmm… this is something i was totally unaware of…

i was baptised at Easter… really still learning…

🙂
Click to expand...
Welcome home!! 👋

And be very glad you’re learning this stuff early. My husband and I, thanks to a confused and timid RCIA teacher (not a priest) continued to practice artificial birth control (ABC) until six months after our confirmation. We both felt terrible when we found out what we’d been doing, but we were still very happy to find out the truth and correct ourselves.

There is special grace for those of us who commit these sins without full knowledge, though it is always better to seek out the knowledge rather than learn it passively.

God be with you,

surf(name removed by moderator)ure
 
well, i’m trying…

thanks for your help, and prayers…

and it feels good to be home…

🙂
 
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