Different rites?

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Average_Joe17

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So today I just learned about there being different rites in The Catholic Church. The ones that Roman Catholics do is the latin rite. I learned about all of these other rites like Byzantine, etc.

One of my questions is this : is there a hierarchy which rite is at the top?
Does each rite have its own canon code without it being heretic?
Perfect union with the Pope or does each right have its own pope?
 
As I understand it:

There’s no hierarchy, but the Latin Rite is definitely the biggest by a wide margin, and as such, there may be a feeling of hierarchy where there shouldn’t be. The Pope, of course, is both the Pope of the Latin Church AND ALSO the other Churches, but the other Churches also have their leadership (titles may vary) that are in full communion with the Pope. There is the Code of Canon Law and the Code of Canons of the Eastern Churches.

Beyond that, I’m not a lot of help 😁 but somewhere I have a couple of “cheat sheets” I refer to when needed. If I can dig those up, I’ll post.
 
Average_Joe17 said:
One of my questions is this : is there a hierarchy which rite is at the top?
Does each rite have its own canon code without it being heretic?
Perfect union with the Pope or does each right have its own pope?
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First of all, you’re confusing the actual “particular churches” that are all in communion with Rome to form the Catholic Church, with the liturgical rites used by each church to conduct its liturgies. They’re two different things. A particular church might have multiple liturgical rites. And a certain liturgical rite might be used by more than one particular church.

This Wiki article has a list of the particular churches, and of the liturgical rites used by each. Note that the Latin Church (aka Western Church aka Roman Catholic Church) actually still has a bunch of liturgical rites that may be used for Mass, in addition to the familiar Roman Rite used at most Masses.


Turning to the 23 Eastern Catholic Churches in communion with Rome (listed here) , in some cases one rite is used by several particular churches, for example Byzantine Rite is used by more than one church.

As for your other questions:
  • Is there a hierarchy which rite is at the top?
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Answer: No. They’re all good and a Catholic can fulfill his Sunday obligation at any of them.
  • Does each rite have its own canon code without it being heretic?
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Answer: Yes. They have a 1990 Code of Canons of the Eastern Churches which is common to all 23 of them. Each church might also have some particular additional canons of its own. This is allowed.
  • Perfect union with the Pope or does each rite have its own pope?
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Answer: Each of the 24 Catholic sui juris churches (including the Latin Church and the 23 Eastern Churches) is independent of the others, but all recognize the supreme authority of the Pope.
 
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The history of the Roman Rite and Eastern Catholic rites is not perfect. There are 1.2 Billion Roman Rite Catholics, and 13 Million Eastern Rite. On paper, each rite is equal in dignity and value. In historical practice, the Roman Rite was treated as the default, and the other rites were treated as somewhat a concession to members of various Orthodox Churches who returned to union with the pope at various points in history. Latin traditions had a huge influence on the Eastern Catholic Churches, which created friction between the two traditions.

In the 20 Century, the the Pope has been working to give Eastern Catholics more autonomy over their churches, and reducing Latin influence in their liturgy. Vatican II made a special effort to protect and promote the Eastern Catholic Churches, which ultimately resulted in a codified canon of law for the Eastern Catholics. There are stronger protections for the Eastern Rite churches, which let them better catechize their members in Eastern Christian spirituality.
 
This is what I encountered a lot in the three TLM communities I experienced when I was church hopping throughout the Roman Church. I’m a Byzantine Catholic now (or in the process of becoming one officially). The distinction many Roman Catholics fail to make is that the Roman Pontiff sits at the head of the Universal Church when he makes dogmatic pronouncements (teaching on faith or morals). Otherwise each Church is led by their Bishop. Rome doesn’t exert any influence over Eastern Churches on the day to day course of affairs. But many Roman Catholics think that because the Pope is also the Bishop of Rome, that the whole Roman Church is above the Eastern Churches. But this is a fallacy, of course. The Roman Church has no special privilege unique to it. It is 100% equal to the Eastern Catholic Churches in every way, shape, and form. The office of the Pope is where the difference lies, but this doesn’t pass anything down to the Roman Church that the other Churches don’t get also. It was the watered down presentation of the faith I was getting in various diocesan parishes that led me into TLM communities and it was the toxic communities among these, with superiority complexes, that led me out of the Roman Church completely. I just wish RCIA taught about the other Churches as well (just that they exist and some basic things about them would be enough). It would likely save a lot of people from leaving the Church altogether if they knew there was another way to live Catholicism at their disposal.
 
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Average_Joe17 said:
One of my questions is this : is there a hierarchy which rite is at the top?
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No. This was actually view held by some theologians in history, but it was refuted by Popes (and common sense). Rome could become Byzantine Rite over the time and still retain being Rome… and Bishop of Rome would be Pope. Just because we have Pope it doesn’t mean we are somewhat superior. It’s like saying Italian Bishops are superior to American Bishops because Pope is also Primate of Italy but not Primate of America.
Average_Joe17 said:
Does each rite have its own canon code without it being heretic?
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As of now, there is one code of law for non-Latin Rites but there are local variations and applications of it.
Average_Joe17 said:
Perfect union with the Pope or does each right have its own pope?
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Perfect communion with the Pope. They are as Catholic as the Pope 🙂

Now problematic thing is mostly recognizing what does it mean to be Pope and what does it mean to be Patriarch of Latin Church (which Pope also is). Eastern Patriarchs are similar to Pope in that they head their respective Eastern Churches, they can make laws and so on. What they are not similar in is infallibility and ability to intervene authoritatively.

Every Catholic Rite is completely true, and is not heretical. If they are in union with Rome, they can’t hold heresy- they are part of One True Church. You can attend Eastern Catholic Liturgies- and even receive Eucharist, Confessions, you have same faith and you are in the same Church as they are. Their faith is same but we see some things from different angle… so emphasis in theology is different while Truth remains same in West, East, North and South.

Also, Roman Rite is not only Latin Rite. There are also former Anglicans who rejoined Latin Church and they have their own Liturgy and even some rules. Granted, they are not autonomous Church and are fully under the Pope but they use non-Roman Latin Rite 😃 Historically, there were also some other Rites in the West that were forgotten.
 
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OrbisNonSufficit said:
Historically, there were also some other Rites in the West that were forgotten.
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Fun tidbit: here in Switzerland, there are three valleys in Ticino (Leventina, Blenio and Riviera) which still are of Ambrosian rite (although I think it’s still in use in the diocese of Milan too – maybe @brown_bear can confirm that).

One of my direct colleagues, Catholic turned Protestant, grew up with the Ambrosian rite.
 
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Yup! The archdiocese of Milan, with more than 1,100 parishes, follows the Ambrosian Rite.

Since in the course of life we obviously often go out of Milan, we are familiar with both the Ambrosian and Roman rites.

The opposite is not true: when an Italian of the Roman rite comes to us he is “scandalized” by our little “heresies” during the Holy Mass, or by the fact that Lent begins four days later, or other things, all blessed by the secular benevolence of the Church. 🙂
 
Below is a couple of paragraphs from Vatican II that describe the Eastern Catholic Rites. A few points:

a. Rite and Church are used interchangeably. There are reasons not to use Church as a description of these groups, but they are technical.

b. All Catholics are “entrusted to the pastoral government of the Roman Pontiff.” This in no way limits the office of Patriarch as it exists in the Eastern Rites.

c. Rite refers to “liturgy, ecclesiastical discipline, and spiritual heritage“ not just the rituals used by these churches.
The Holy Catholic Church, which is the Mystical Body of Christ, is made up of the faithful who are organically united in the Holy Spirit by the same faith, the same sacraments and the same government and who, combining together into various groups which are held together by a hierarchy, form separate Churches or Rites. Between these there exists an admirable bond of union, such that the variety within the Church in no way harms its unity; rather it manifests it, for it is the mind of the Catholic Church that each individual Church or Rite should retain its traditions whole and entire and likewise that it should adapt its way of life to the different needs of time and place.

These individual Churches, whether of the East or the West, although they differ somewhat among themselves in rite (to use the current phrase), that is, in liturgy, ecclesiastical discipline, and spiritual heritage, are, nevertheless, each as much as the others, entrusted to the pastoral government of the Roman Pontiff, the divinely appointed successor of St. Peter in primacy over the universal Church. They are consequently of equal dignity, so that none of them is superior to the others as regards rite and they enjoy the same rights and are under the same obligations, also in respect of preaching the Gospel to the whole world (cf. Mark 16, 15) under the guidance of the Roman Pontiff.
Vatican II. Orientalium Ecclesiarium. 2-3
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OddBird said:
Fun tidbit: here in Switzerland, there are three valleys in Ticino (Leventina, Blenio and Riviera) which still are of Ambrosian rite (although I think it’s still in use in the diocese of Milan too – maybe @brown_bear can confirm that).
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Yes, Ambrosian Rite is Milanese. Some actually believe that it was from where Gallican Rites originate. Current Ambrosian Rite is also heavily Romanized though- if Gallcan Rites were from this particular Rite, it has changed dramatically. It’s quite interesting that it exists outside Milan. I would certainly like to experience it one day 🙂
 
Average_Joe17 said:
So today I just learned about there being different rites in The Catholic Church. The ones that Roman Catholics do is the latin rite. I learned about all of these other rites like Byzantine, etc.
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Well, to be precise, the name of the Rite that “Roman Catholics” celebrate is called the “Roman Rite” which is part of the “Latin Rite family.” The Latin Rite family consists of the Roman Rite, the Ambrosian Rite, the Rite of Braga, the Rite of Sarum, the Dominican Rite, the Carmelite Rite, etc.

So most Catholics celebrate the Roman Rite which is part of the Latin Church and the Latin family of Rites.
One of my questions is this : is there a hierarchy which rite is at the top?
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No, they are all equal - even though the Roman Rite is the largest by far.
Does each rite have its own canon code without it being heretic?
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No. Each Rite does NOT have it’s own Code of Canon Law. However, each Church within the Catholic Church could. So for Roman Catholics, we follow the Code of Canon Law for the Latin Church. NOW, with that said, each Rite has their own LITURGICAL LAWS. So what what might be wrong in one Rite can be correct in another. They also have their own theology.
Perfect union with the Pope or does each right have its own pope?
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There is only one Pope. However, each of the Churches (not Rites) does have a leader (either official or de facto). The larger Churches have a Patriarch (like the Coptic Catholics have the Patriarch of Alexandria). Other large, but newer groups like the Ukrainian Catholics have a “Major Archbishop” like the Major Archbishop of Kyiv-Galicia. While smaller Churches like the Ruthenian Catholics simply have an Archbishop & Russian Catholics have a priest.
 
brown_bear said:
The opposite is not true: when an Italian of the Roman rite comes to us he is “scandalized” by our little “heresies” during the Holy Mass, or by the fact that Lent begins four days later, or other things, all blessed by the secular benevolence of the Church.
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we’ve seen RCC radtrads (from the schismatic parishes) visit our byzantine Catholic parish because “you have valid sacraments” when their priest was out of town, yet still horrified at the thoguht of communing here.
:roll_eyes:😱 🤯

and one pair I talked to were absolutely convinced that all the RC that had joined were running from the OF, and looked at me as if I had extra eyeballs when I explained that we had run to it . . .

while I’m at it: “when in Rome . . .” comes from St. Ambrose, about what to do about different fasting days in the roman rite.
 
Average_Joe17 said:
So today I just learned about there being different rites in The Catholic Church. The ones that Roman Catholics do is the latin rite. I learned about all of these other rites like Byzantine, etc.

One of my questions is this : is there a hierarchy which rite is at the top?
Does each rite have its own canon code without it being heretic?
Perfect union with the Pope or does each right have its own pope?
Click to expand...
Do not confuse “rites” with “church”.

Rites are a system of worship. Churches consist of people. Churches adopt certain Rites.

Latin Catholics are member of the Latin church. Most of these Latin Catholics practice the Roman Rite. Some Latin Catholics practice the Ambrosian Rite (in Milan). And some others.

Members of the Ukrainian church practice the Byzantine Rite. But so do the members of the Ruthenian, Italo-Albanian, Melkite, Greek churches.

The Catholic Church consists of 24 particular self-governing churches.
 
Agree. Someone else in the thread suggested the words “Church” and “Rite” could be used interchangeably. While this is sometimes done by those with an advanced level of knowledge, or those who need to speak about all the churches using one rite (such as Byzantine rite) as a group, It’s really not a good idea to use the words “Church” and “Rite” interchangeably if you’re at a beginner level of understanding the 24 self-governing (sui juris) churches.
 
I see many people have explained well many of the facts.

The 23 Eastern Catholic churches can be divided up into 5 liturgical rites. Alexandrian rite, Armenian rite, Byzantine rite, East Syriac rite, and West Syriac rite.

The most familiar Eastern rite to a western audience would be the Byzantine rite. There are 14 Byzantine rite Eastern Catholic churches. The Eastern Orthodox would be the counterpart Eastern church for this rite. These are the Orthodox churches that, in some point in history, that returned to full communion with the Pope.

The other three rites- Alexandrian rite, Armenian rite, and West Syriac rite - are Eastern churches from Oriental Orthodoxy that, in some point in history, returned to full communion with the Pope.
  1. Alexandrian rite includes the Coptic Catholics, Ethiopian Catholics and Eritrean Catholics.
  2. Armenian rite → Armenian Catholics.
  3. West Syriac rite includes the Maronites, Syriac Catholics, and Malankara Catholics.
    (now the Maronites don’t really have a counterpart church in the eastern side. And their liturgy has some influence of the East Syriac rite, but they are grouped in the West Syriac rite)
The East Syriac rite (aka Chaldean rite) consists of Eastern churches from the historic Church of the East that returned to full communion with the Holy See. The Church of the East no longer exists. So the modern descendant church would be the Assyrian Church of the East.

a. Chaldean Catholics
b. Syro-Malabar Catholics

in simple terms, you can say, the Eastern Catholic churches are factions from Eastern Christianity (apostolic churches) that are now in full communion with the Holy See.
 
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Alexandria2020 said:
in simple terms, you can say, the Eastern Catholic churches are factions from Eastern Christianity (apostolic churches) that are now in full communion with the Holy See.
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now to add to this, I’m going to list the liturgies of the EC churches. The most commonly or ordinarily used liturgy. I’m not an expert on this, so correct me if I’m wrong.

Byzantine Rite
counterpart church: Eastern Orthodox Church (Greek).
I think the ordinarily used liturgy for Byzantine Catholics is the Liturgy of St John Chrysostom.

Alexandrian Rite
counterpart churches: Coptic, Ethiopian and Eritrean Orthodox churches.
I think for the Copts, Ethiopians, and Eritreans it would be the Liturgy of St Basil.

Armenian Rite
counterpart church: Armenian Orthodox Church.
St Gregory the Illuminator is traditionally seen as the founder of the Armenian church and liturgy. I think over the years they have been influenced of the Syriac rites, Cappadocian Fathers, Byzantine rite, and Latin rite.

East Syriac Rite
counterpart church: Assyrian Church of the East.
I think the ordinarily used liturgy for East Syriac Catholics is the Liturgy of Sts. Addai and Mari.

West Syriac Rite
counterpart churches: Syriac Orthodox and Malankara Orthodox churches.
I think the ordinarily used liturgy for West Syriac Catholics is the Liturgy of St James. The West Syriacs have more anaphoras than any other rite. Compared to the East Syriac rite, the West Syriacs are more hellenized.
(now although the Maronites are in this West Syriac category, they are unique themselves as they have no counterpart church in the East. Plus their Anaphora of Sharrar has many similarities with the East Syriac Rite)
 
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No hierarchy of rites. The Church clearly teaches that all are equal in dignity (Second Vatican Council Decree on Eastern Catholic Churches).
 
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