Difficult Priest/monsignor

[Rence]

Just an update and for further clarity -
my faith has not been challenged, I know that Jesus is there for me and the only path to take. In all of the trying times with my ex that was exactly what gave me some peace was my prayers and faith, asking for guidance for making the right and best decisions for both myself and my kids. However, in terms of talking with the monsignor I don’t believe that ANY Catholic parishioner should be spoken down to!! I joined that parish as soon as I moved and yes I do put money in the collection basket (going on over 3 years). I’m involved with organizations within the church community, etc.

My meeting with him was to be about my son getting baptized, not where the older kids go to school (as they do not attend the Catholic school attached to the church), not about how much I give each week (I give what I can) and not about getting my husband enrolled in RCIA so he can become Catholic. Obviously I want to correct the situation otherwise I wouldn’t be posting here. I’m frustrated at the treatment and the condescending nature as I know that it doesn’t have to be that way.

I totally understand you. It’s difficult when someone basically turns your life upside down and does so by being rude and condescending. I can understand him asking you about your other children’s education, but not about how much you give, and about getting your husband enrolled in RCIA…which was a bit presumptuous and not required anyway. But I’m glad that you are working on getting it all straightened out

I have contacted another parish in my community (not one that has over 6,000 members and the deacon did admonish me), he is going to work with me on all points, and rather than being critical he was supportive and wants to support this process. The end result is the same and the experience is better.

That’s what I would have done too. Your monsignor is not the only one who can help you.

What would any of you all do if you met with your religious leader and they sat in their leather chair with their legs stretched out and arm crossed and said “you don’t need to be intimidated by me”…umm I wasn’t and WOW really?!!

These threads are helpful and somewhat supportive. However, there were a few that unless you know ALL of the facts you too need to have caution on passing judgement. I stand by my decisions but no I don’t only want the easy way out. If I did I would have just walked away completely.

I’d have done what you did: get upset, lose my temper, ask what my options were, cool off, find another priest to help me out, do my research and go from there

 

[Rence]

Oh I also found out that they need to contact my ex in order for the annulment to happen. He doesn’t need to know where I am or what I’m doing. Any suggestions on how to prevent this? We left for a reason.

I understand that too. I suggest talking to the priest you found to help you. If you have any written documents (order of protection, court orders, court documents) to backup the necessity of keeping him away from you, that would help. But he doesn’t have to be the only witness. There can be others. Though, he does have the right to defend himself to the tribunal, I’m sure they wouldn’t want to put you in physical danger. So talk to your priest, maybe he can help with that.

I had a very abusive father as well. When my mom was going through her annullment, we had an order of protection and court documents. Though, we didn’t care about the diocese not being able to find him because, well, frankly he had no respect for the authority of the diocese and wouldn’t have answered their calls. He was also “missing” or rather in hiding from the law, so again, he wasn’t likely to answer any calls in my mom’s case. They put an ad in the paper looking for him, and when he didn’t get back to them within a specified amount of time (I think it was two weeks actually), the proceedings took place without him. They used different witnesses.

Also getting back to what Joanofarc said: mom couldn’t afford the money to pay for the annullment as well, being newly divorced with two teenagers. So they told her to ‘pay it when you can’. She didn’t put a dime forward at the time, but she received a phonecall years later asking specifially what her donation was for, when she finally paid it So I laugh when people spread rumors about Catholics “buying” their annullments…which I’m sure happens in some places. But mom didn’t “pay” for hers until years later…

 

[joanofarc2008]

Oh I also found out that they need to contact my ex in order for the annulment to happen. He doesn’t need to know where I am or what I’m doing. Any suggestions on how to prevent this? We left for a reason.

There is no way to prevent this because if he is not given the chance to defend the validity of the marriage then he can always come back appeal later to Rome which will put you back in the same situation for a process that takes five years rather than this process which on the average takes a year to a year and a half depending on diocese. Plus you would always have it hanging over your heads (as far as I know no Tribunal will do it this way anyway). Now if for some reason he cannot be found at his old addresses etc and it can be shown you made reasonable attempt to give the tribunal his information, his old family information, etc then you will be fine. (These are the things that Rence mentioned with the mom) I do strongly urge you to get into a group where you have a Canon lawyer available so you can have all this explained.

 

[Phemie]

There is no way to prevent this because if he is not given the chance to defend the validity of the marriage then he can always come back appeal later to Rome which will put you back in the same situation for a process that takes five years rather than this process which on the average takes a year to a year and a half depending on diocese. Plus you would always have it hanging over your heads (as far as I know no Tribunal will do it this way anyway). Now if for some reason he cannot be found at his old addresses etc and it can be shown you made reasonable attempt to give the tribunal his information, his old family information, etc then you will be fine. (These are the things that Rence mentioned with the mom) I do strongly urge you to get into a group where you have a Canon lawyer available so you can have all this explained.

It should be noted that she doesn’t have to contact him personally and he will not be told where she is living if she doesn’t want him to be told.

 

[joanofarc2008]

It should be noted that she doesn’t have to contact him personally and he will not be told where she is living if she doesn’t want him to be told.

Of course.

 

[Irishgal49]

I’ve been raised Catholic all my life, in college I chose to become more involved with my faith and became part of a wonderful church with an outstanding priest. He passion and approachability have been unsurpassed. Years later I married a man who was also Catholic, a match made in heaven right? WRONG!! Even with the premarital counseling, etc. he had everyone fooled! He was an abusive man, and while I took an oath to be together until death, after 7 years and two children later I made a decision out of the best interest (of the kids and myself) to divorce this man. I’m not sorry for my decision as I’ve seen my children flourish and thrive apart from that environment.

I’ve since met and married a wonderful man, he is not catholic however, so we did not get married in the catholic church. We have a little boy together, while my husband has no desire to become catholic, he has no problem with raising our son in the faith. My husband goes to mass with us, just doesn’t receive communion. Well I wanted to get our son baptized. Upon meeting with the Monsignor I walked out of his office questioning my choice of the catholic faith!! How sad is that?! He was awful, we are part of a parish that has over 6,000 members. My other two kids are in PRE and go to mass every Sunday. When I met with him regarding the baptism, all he said to me was “Well I don’t recognize you”….

Seriously, I’m in your mass every Sunday, I proceeded to tell him where I sit and that he doesn’t give me the eucharist as I am always on the other side of the aisle that he serves on. He crosses his arms and tells me that I don’t need to be intimidated by him, which I wasn’t.

In a nutshell he tells me that I have to have my marriage annulled through the church and I shouldn’t have been receiving the eucharist this whole time. Also he wouldn’t baptize our son until we got all of this “cleared” up.

Two things, based on what I understand babies are “exempt” from anything that they parents may do, therefore there is NO reason that he can’t get baptized. Second, so because I chose to leave a man who was abusive I can’t receive the eucharist until the church says it’s okay?! I needed their permission to leave? I was actually scolded by the monsignor because I took an oath…

His demeanor was just awful and pretentious, almost as if he was screening me to see if I was going to be “allowed” to become part of his church and to baptize my child. I hear weekly how the catholic religion wants to grow their numbers, etc. I can tell you that this kind of behavior is EXACTLY why. If it offended someone who is practicing and faithful, I can’t imagine how it would seem to those who are not catholic.

Can you offer some clarity as to where I should go from here? It seems that he just wanted to “fix” my current husband and I and also wanted money….ugh.

I am stunned that someone in the faith would not consult a priest on divorce, annulment, and marriage outside the faith (which is forbidden without a dispensation).

You were fine in divorcing your husband, but you needed an annulment BEFORE you could remarry. Without a special dispensation, you CANNOT marry outside the Catholic Church. The priest was correct in his actions.

 

[Corki]

It should be noted that she doesn’t have to contact him personally and he will not be told where she is living if she doesn’t want him to be told.

Also, I believe that a person initiating the tribunal process can chose to file with the diocese where she is now living OR the diocese where the spouse is living. The latter may be a more prudent choice if she wants her location to remain undisclosed.

 

[joanofarc2008]

I am stunned that someone in the faith would not consult a priest on divorce, annulment, and marriage outside the faith (which is forbidden without a dispensation).

You were fine in divorcing your husband, but you needed an annulment BEFORE you could remarry. Without a special dispensation, you CANNOT marry outside the Catholic Church. The priest was correct in his actions.

Don’t be so shocked - first of all you can never judge someone’s soul or the state of someone’s sin. You can say objectively that someone’s action was good or bad but you cannot say that it was mortal at the time. You do not know what type of catechesis someone received, etc. I know many Catholics who are cradle Catholics who are quite shocked to find out that one cannot date without benefit of a decree of nullity due to the state of religious formation. So yes please take it as a learning experience to properly form your own children and to take this into account when teaching religious ed should you have this opportunity but the OP has been through enough without this type of post.

 

[joanofarc2008]

Also, I believe that a person initiating the tribunal process can chose to file with the diocese where she is now living OR the diocese where the spouse is living. The latter may be a more prudent choice if she wants her location to remain undisclosed.

I did send the full procedure offline. Basically if someone is living in a different diocese now - like what happened in my situation - both the wedding and the respondent were in a diocese x, I am in diocese y. Diocese y sent documentation to Diocese x asking permission to keep the case. Diocese x also tried to make contact with Respondent to see if he wanted any part of case. All of this was done and then sent back to Diocese y. At the point when Diocese y called me in for my testimony (only two months after my divorce was finalized) I knew thanks to Diocese x that the Respondent would not be participating. I never had to initiate any contact and he never received any paperwork from anyone but Diocese x.

 

[Alice59]

We have a great priest. He is young but extremely pious and brilliant. Problem is he is very moody and often rude and ugly to parishioners - the ones (usually older -retired members of our community) who help, participate, volunteer, the most.
I am very concerned about him - about stories I am hearing of his rudeness and downright ugliness to so many.
Has anyone else experienced this?

 

[OraLabora]

The priest was correct in his actions.

If he was rude and uncharitable, he was not “correct” in his actions. His job is to be a shepherd, bringing people back into the church, not scaring them away. There are ways of presenting the truth that will make one want to run closer to it, not run away from it.

People make mistakes. The OP had valid reasons for leaving, and may have been poorly catechized on Church teaching on divorce and remarriage. The priest’s job is to help that person undo their mistakes, to present them a return path to full communion. Not to scare them away.