Difficulties

[jurist12]

1st let me start off by saying I was Baptised and Confirmed a Catholic, after my Confirmation I seldom went to Church because my parents were 24/7 working parents, my Dad owned his own business and mom was an R.N and a supervisor at a large Hospital. It’s not that my parents were “cultural” Catholics, they both had a deep faith, it’s just that there never seemed to be enough “time” for Church and my parents could only spend time together and with me on Saturday afternoons and Sundays. When I was at College I had a “born again” experience and got involved in Pentecostal and later on a Baptist Church. In my late 20’s I joined the Episcopal Church and when I saw what was happening there with all the controversies I joined the Reformed Episcopal Church in 1997. For family reasons in 1999 (taking care of my now disabled father who recently passed away) I moved back to my hometown. I cannot go to the Episcopal Church and I disagree with some Baptist/Evangelical beliefs. So my options are the Lutherans, Methodists or the Catholic Church. I would like to go with the Catholic Church but there are some Catholic doctrines I disagree with. I have read a good part of the Catholic Catechism, listened to and read Catholic Apologists, and while there is much I agree with there is also much I disagree with, to me there are some Catholic Dogmas that I feel are simply not Biblical, for example : I agree with the Protestant view on Justification by Faith, I disagree with the Catholic view of Justification as a process, it strikes me as being “works” righteoussness and the whole thing about Purgatory, these seem to nullify what Christ did on the Cross for us. The Assumption of Mary which has no Biblical basis at all. The Mass I have no problems with nor is asking the Saints to pray for us. The main difficulties I have are the ones I mentioned. Could I be a Catholic and believe what I believe about Justification, Purgatory, and the Assumtion of Mary? Or would it be better for me to stay a Protestant? Lutherans and Methodists have more in common with Catholic belief than say Baptists or Calvary Chapel. I really am in a difficult situation. Please pray for me. In Christ, jurist12

 

[Chris_Burgwald]

jurist, I think that if you continue to pray and study, you’ll find answers to your questions about the things which you still disagree on (more in a minute). In the meantime, I’d say go to get involved in the Catholic parish. Although you won’t be able to receive communion yet, your prayerful and attentive presence at Mass will be beneficial, and it will allow you to get to know the members of the parish.

And as far as those issues, you’ve mentioned that you’ve read some apologetics. Who have you read? Hahn? If not, pick his stuff up. I’m sure others will have other and more specific recommendations, but that’s what I’d offer at this point.

Oh, one more thing: as far as justification is concerned, read the Joint Declaration on the Doctrine of Justification which the Vatican and the Lutheran World Federation signed. If you can accept the explanation of justification found therein, you’re find on that issue.

Hope this is of some help; you’re in my family’s prayers.

 

[Karl_Keating]

If you can’t accept such formally-defined beliefs as purgatory and the Assumption, you’re not ready to be a Catholic. To be a Catholic, you must accept everything the Church teaches, without exception, because you acknowledge that the Church has Christ’s own teaching authority and therefore cannot err.

(Yes, I know that many cradle Catholics don’t live up to that, but that’s irrelevant to your situation as a prospective convert. You shouldn’t aspire to be an ignorant or bad Catholic but a knowing and good Catholic.)

It seems your fundamental problem is sola scriptura, a theory that the Church rejects and that was unknown before the Reformation. So long as you hang on to sola scriptura–which reduces to private interpretation as against the interpretation of the Church–you won’t be able to accept the full teaching of the Church.

 

[Pax]

Jurist,

You seem so close and yet so far from becoming catholic. Let me suggest to you, that you may be closer than you think. There are answers for all of the areas that you have trouble with. One of the main problems non-catholics have with some catholic teachings stems from “what and how they were taught” in their past tradition. This includes not only what they know but also what they reject.

Karl Keating is certainly right to point out that you are not yet ready to become catholic. All catholics and converts need to completely surrender themselves to Jesus Christ and His church. We have to overcome whatever personal feelings and biases that we bring with us in our search for truth. This is not easy or comfortable.

I would suggest you read James Akin’s book The Salvation Controversy. Also search out threads in these forums as well as tracts at CatholicAnswers, jamesakin.com, and ic.net/~erasmus/erasmus.htm. You might also get John Martignoni’s tape set from the biblechristiansociety.com
These readily available materials will help you through the doctrinal mysts and into the recognition of catholic truth.

 

[Buckeyejoe]

What is Justification by faith? … It is Baptism…We as Catholics do an ACT of FAITH and then are Baptized. So Justification with it’s Sanctifying Grace is aquired by faith alone… However…After Baptism, you are required by Jesus Christ, to live a faithfilled life incorporating acts of charity, love of God, neighbor, yourself, and obey the commandments, if you wish to enter into life, or to remain in this state of grace.

Jusfication/Sanctification PROCESS begins AFTER becoming a child of God, NOT to become a child of God.
Protestantism seems to live in a once saved always saved mentality. This is a lie from Satan. And the Bible has probably 100 or more scripture passages to refute OSAS.

What Christ did for us on the cross was an act of Redemption. To bring us back to a condition similar to Adam and Eve BEFORE the Fall. This was impossible for mankind to accomplish untill the Perfect Sacrifice of Christ Himself on the cross.

When we are born again, (Baptism) we are living in a condition similar to Adam and Eve before the Fall. We have Sanctifying Grace. However, just like those two lost Sanctifying Grace through sin, we can lose it as well, through mortal sin. (We have free will)

Stay with the Catholic faith, learn it, don’t short change your spirituality by chasing after partial truth doctrines of Protestantism.

Thanks

 

[hawkeye]

I gave my answer to the Asumption in the “Non Catholic Religions” section, #151

 

[Mike_Rainville]

Of course the Church existed for a while before before the written word of God, and defined the original Canon of Scripture. Scripture itself testifies to its authority and founding by Christ.

I disagree with the Catholic view of Justification as a process, it strikes me as being “works” righteoussness and the whole thing about Purgatory, these seem to nullify what Christ did on the Cross for us. The Assumption of Mary which has no Biblical basis at all.

(1) Justification

“Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling; for it is God who is at work in you, enabling you both to will and to work for his good pleasure” (Phil 2:12f).

Joint Declaration on Justification from the Lutheran WorldFederation and the Catholic Church

(2) Purgatory

“And whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven; but whoever speaks against the holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.”

Matthew chapter 12 verse 32 (see also Matt 5:26, 1 Cor 3:15 )

There are five Old Testament references, as well. See “Charity for the Suffering Souls” by Rev. John A. Nageleisen (TAN Books)

(3) The Assumption of the Blessed Virgin Mary

Mary was without original sin and death is the punishment for sin, therefore Mary did not die. Luke continues to describe the action of the Holy Spirit in forming the Messiah in her pure womb, the first tabernacle.

Catechism 1008

Death is a consequence of sin. The Church’s Magisterium, as authentic interpreter of the affirmations of Scripture and Tradition, teaches that death entered the world on account of man’s sin.571 Even though man’s nature is mortal God had destined him not to die. Death was therefore contrary to the plans of God the Creator and entered the world as a consequence of sin

Gen 2:17; 3:3; 3:19; Wis 1:13; Rom 5:12; 6:23;

'And coming to her, he said, “Hail, favored one! The Lord is with you.” ’ Luke 1:28f

[Munificentissimus Deus by Pope Pius XII

Apostolic Constitution defining “ex cathedra” (from the chair of Peter) the dogma of the Assumption of the Blessed Virgin)](http://www.ewtn.com/library/PAPALDOC/P12MUNIF.HTM)

 

[Todd_Easton]

jurist12:

. The Assumption of Mary which has no Biblical basis at all.

There are Biblical precedents for God taking his faithful servants bodily into heaven: Enoch and Elijah while they were still living (Gen 5:24, 2 Kings 2:11); and Moses after his death (Jude 1:9). The Bible presents Mary as being a faithful servant of the Lord; “Mary said, ‘Behold, I am the handmaid of the Lord; let it be to me according to your word’” (Luke 1:38). In fact, the Bible presents Mary as “blessed … among women,” a Hebraism for “the most blessed of women” (Luke 1:42). Logically then, if there was a short list of people to be taken bodily into heaven chances are pretty good that the Blessed Virgin Mary would be on it, if not at the very top of it.

Furthermore, Mary’s assumption is supported in her song of praise: “My soul magnifies the Lord, and my spirit rejoices in God my Savior, for he has regarded the low estate of his handmaiden … and exalted [or lifted up on high] those of low degree” (Luke 1:46-55). And, it is also supported in the heavenly vision of St. John in Rev 11:19-12:17; if the New Covenant has an ark, then “the ark of his covenant” is the Blessed Virgin Mary and the woman who “brought forth a male child, one who is to rule all the nations with a rod of iron” is also the Blessed Virgin Mary and both the ark and the woman are placed by St. John in heaven.

By the way, the Marian doctrine I had the most difficulty with was not her immaculate conception or her perpetual virginity or her bodily assumption into heaven but “Mary, Queen of Heaven” even though the Bible is clear that she wears a crown in heaven (Rev 12:1). My difficulty vanished when I learned that in the house of David, Jesus being its last and greatest king, from the time of Solomon onward, the queen of the kingdom was not the king’s wife but his mother (see 1 Kings 2:19).

 

[Deacon_Tony560]

Just the fact that you came to this site and shared a very personal faith journey with us is inspiring. Good luck and God bless.Deacon Tony

How blessed are those who don’t see and yet believe.

 

[Mijoy2]

Karl Keating:

If you can’t accept such formally-defined beliefs as purgatory and the Assumption, you’re not ready to be a Catholic. To be a Catholic, you must accept everything the Church teaches, without exception, because you acknowledge that the Church has Christ’s own teaching authority and therefore cannot err.

(Yes, I know that many cradle Catholics don’t live up to that, but that’s irrelevant to your situation as a prospective convert. You shouldn’t aspire to be an ignorant or bad Catholic but a knowing and good Catholic.)

It seems your fundamental problem is sola scriptura, a theory that the Church rejects and that was unknown before the Reformation. So long as you hang on to sola scriptura–which reduces to private interpretation as against the interpretation of the Church–you won’t be able to accept the full teaching of the Church.