Difficulty with 4th Commandment and the Holidays

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TepeyacTraveler

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Hello Everyone,

Long time reader and first time poster…Glad to be here!

How do I respect my mom and still have a Catholic Family life?

My Mom is currently a non practicing Catholic. This is mainly due to both of my brothers saying they are gay within the last few years and her view on its acceptance in the Catholic Church. I have lovingly explained the Catholic Church loves homosexual people, but does not condone the actions that come with it. Basically love the sinner not the sin. She doesn’t agree and the unbelievably terrible state of the Catholic Church doesn’t help. Basically she feels it says “do as I say and not as I do…”

So I am very happily married to my best friend and love of my life. We have 3 wonderful kids. My Catholic life and my moms secular life simply no longer mesh. We have been preparing nightly with Advent prayer and our Jesse Tree. I am viewed as “Holier then thou” by her and my step father. I should mention I’m 38 years old so not exactly a “kid”. I love my mom and try very hard to treat her with love and respect. A wonderful Priest told me that the 4th commandment is obviously important, but doesn’t include bully behavior.

I informed my mom my family was going to stay home this Christmas and celebrate together here. I invited her and my stepfather as well. She said she can’t come because she is having her sisters and some, not all, of their kids over to her house. I said ok that sounds good. The next day I get a text message saying she thinks I’m making a big mistake by not coming. We were just there, trying to be inclusive of them, for Thanksgiving and had a pretty good time. It’s just never enough! Then later my stepfather texts me that it’s “b.s.”, spelled out, we aren’t coming. He asked why he went out of his way to go pick up a toy for one of my sons? Mind you, it was in the same city. Hardly a huge ask in my opinion. I thanked him when he picked it up the other day because we live 90 miles away. Then he wrote well maybe we will just mail you your stuff in the spring. Then simply “whatever”. This was really all out of the blue. To me it’s immature, manipulative, and Just plain mean. I’m trying to find the difference between “grin and bare it” and standing up for myself and my family.

My mom is starting to routinely upset my family and causing me to sin. When is enough enough? I have a wife and 3 kids to care for now and we love Jesus and are proud Catholics.

Thoughts???
 
TepeyacTraveler said:
So I am very happily married to my best friend and love of my life. We have 3 wonderful kids.
[…]
I informed my mom my family was going to stay home this Christmas and celebrate together here. I invited her and my stepfather as well. She said she can’t come because she is having her sisters and some, not all, of their kids over to her house. I said ok that sounds good.
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Honestly I think this says a lot right here. It’s completely normal for you to want to celebrate Christmas at home with your wife and kids, no matter what other conflicts are going on! It’s not like there’s some part of the 4th commandment that says “you must spend major holidays with your family” or something. It’s not normal to be this upset that your adult kids aren’t spending Christmas with you.

I would just not respond too much. Think of it less as “grin and bear it” and more as “not rewarding rude behavior with a response.” You told them you weren’t coming. Any further mean or manipulative comments don’t need a response. Responding just sends the message that your and your wife’s choice is still up for debate. Your first commitment is to her and to your children.

If it’s a text message, just don’t answer it. If it’s a phone call politely end the call. You’re not doing anything wrong by not giving in to bullying.
 
You have a wife and children. You have every right to stay home and have them grow up remembering Christmas spent happily in their own home.

Stop talking about topics that will only start arguments with your mom. If she persists, tell her “gotta go,” and hang up. After a while she might get a handle on what topics to avoid. And if she doesn’t, you will end the conversation. It is more respectful to end the conversation calmly than to get in a heated debate with your mom. Your stepfather is just being a jerk.

Your wife and children come first now.
 
I can’t add more to what @Irishmom2 said. Seems to hit the nail on the head. The only thing I’ll add is that it isn’t an issue with the 4th commandment.

Wishing your holy family a Holy Christmas.
 
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I think the stepfather is causing much of the trouble with his rudeness and bullying. I would suggest you ignore it. So what if they don’t mail the son’s toy until the Spring? I’m sure he’ll be getting plenty to enjoy from his own parents at Christmas time. It’s a shame there’s so much spitefulness, but I would say, continue to love them, and pray for them.
 
Your priest already explained to you that “Honor your father and mother” does not mean you have to kowtow to their bullying or childish behavior.

It’s reasonable under the circumstances you’ve described to want to spend the holidays with your family in your own home, with the door open to your parents visiting if they wish to do so. The only suggestion I would make is that if you are going to be kindly but firmly “laying down the law” with your mom and stepfather about not coming for family visits, then it would be better if you also did not ask them to do favors for you such as pick up the toy. I agree it was not a “huge ask”, but in my experience, even good parents can be very tit-for-tat and feel that if they are doing a favor for their family member, then the family member owes them something in return, such as a visit. Best not to add any fuel to their fire by asking for favors, even small ones.

You need to simply respond to the fussing by your mom and stepdad like you would respond to a child having a tantrum. Simply stay calm, do not change your position, and if they continue with the texts and such, hit the block button or turn the phone off. And visit them again at another time when there is not a Catholic holiday all wrapped up with the visit.
 
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Don’t forget the other side of the fourth commandment.

By living a good Catholic/Christian life you bring pride, honor and value into the hearts and lives of your parents.
 
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Thanks for the understanding and advice. I appreciate it!
 
My feelings exactly. My wife and kids come first now. There is no question. Just difficult when it’s your mom being immature…
 
Wonderful advice.

We were just there for Thanksgiving and had a good time. This picking up of the toy should have been a non issue. I should know better, unfortunately from previous experience, not to ask for favors. Even when the waters are seemingly calm…
 
Not exactly sure what you mean by this?

I am trying to do the right thing in my situation. The last thing I want to do is offend or hurt my mom. I have no reason or need to do that. However, at some point, which is what I’m trying to search out, the parent crosses the line.

As my Priest had said, the 4th commandment isn’t in the spirit of “no matter what” or “in every situation.” If the parent is out of line, or worse, abusive, we don’t have to subject ourselves to that.

I will say there is always the parent child relationship, but eventually it takes on an adult adult relationship within the parent child that takes on a different feel. Does that make sense? I have 3 young kids on my own and fully expect to be there one day myself.
 
I think I can explain.

Think about it as living a life that you would be proud to see your son living. Live your life so that other people can see you and think, their son really is a good, godly, man. That honors your parents even if they don’t personally appreciate it.
 
TepeyacTraveler said:
I will say there is always the parent child relationship,
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I think that this is what makes such situations difficult. I’ve watched my wife suffer through this (and suffer is the right word) for 25 years. You love them, but can’t stand their actions. As a spouse, there is nothing I can do to ‘fix’ it, just be there as support, as they work through it.
 
TepeyacTraveler said:
I will say there is always the parent child relationship
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Although I already responded to your main question about wanting to spend Christmas as a family unit with your wife and kids and not with your parents this year, please also remember the broader picture.

Your brothers may not be living in the way that you or the Church would prescribe, but they are still your mom’s children and she loves them, no doubt as much as she loves you. Loving Moms do not want to be put in a position of having to reject one or more of their children. Nor do they want to have to choose between their children. They love ALL their children. They will often find some way to make excuses for their children’s behavior, whether that child is living a lifestyle the Church doesn’t accept, or has an addiction, or has been to prison five times, or whatever.

Although like I said I think it is fine that you want to celebrate Christmas with your wife and kids at home, with the door open to maybe visiting family later on when it’s not a Catholic holiday, I would strongly suggest that maybe you just avoid the topic of Church teaching on gay people around your mom. You’ve done you bit by lovingly explaining to her what the Church teaches, so she’s aware; she just doesn’t want to think about that right now. So, no need for you to say any more about it. Focus on your own relationship with your mom, try to find common ground with her instead of dwelling on the area in which you and she diverge. She’s between a rock and a hard place because she loves all of her sons.
 
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Believe me, I definitely feel for my mom. My brothers aren’t able to come for Christmas this year due to work and expense of a plane ticket. I don’t talk to her about Catholic Church’s teaching on homosexuality. She knows. It just got so “do as I say and not as I do” with all the terrible abuse coming to light. Basically, how is the church going to tell her her sons are living in sin when many religious are doing the same. Seems disingenuous to her…

I would have to imagine even over and above the pain of her sons living the way they are they have also given up the Catholic Church. I can’t imagine much worse then my children growing up and dropping Jesus. I know my wife and I do everything in our power to show our children the love of Jesus. That said, many parents have done the same and the world is a cruel place that grabs hold of some and changes them deeply.

I really appreciate your responses. Nice to hear other views.
 
TepeyacTraveler said:
How do I respect my mom and still have a Catholic Family life?

My Mom is currently a non practicing Catholic. This is mainly due to both of my brothers saying they are gay within the last few years and her view on its acceptance in the Catholic Church. I have lovingly explained the Catholic Church loves homosexual people, but does not condone the actions that come with it. Basically love the sinner not the sin. She doesn’t agree and the unbelievably terrible state of the Catholic Church doesn’t help. Basically she feels it says “do as I say and not as I do…”

So I am very happily married to my best friend and love of my life. We have 3 wonderful kids. My Catholic life and my moms secular life simply no longer mesh. We have been preparing nightly with Advent prayer and our Jesse Tree. I am viewed as “Holier then thou” by her and my step father. I should mention I’m 38 years old so not exactly a “kid”. I love my mom and try very hard to treat her with love and respect. A wonderful Priest told me that the 4th commandment is obviously important, but doesn’t include bully behavior.

I informed my mom my family was going to stay home this Christmas and celebrate together here. I invited her and my stepfather as well. She said she can’t come because she is having her sisters and some, not all, of their kids over to her house. I said ok that sounds good. The next day I get a text message saying she thinks I’m making a big mistake by not coming. We were just there, trying to be inclusive of them, for Thanksgiving and had a pretty good time. It’s just never enough! Then later my stepfather texts me that it’s “b.s.”, spelled out, we aren’t coming. He asked why he went out of his way to go pick up a toy for one of my sons? Mind you, it was in the same city. Hardly a huge ask in my opinion. I thanked him when he picked it up the other day because we live 90 miles away. Then he wrote well maybe we will just mail you your stuff in the spring. Then simply “whatever”. This was really all out of the blue. To me it’s immature, manipulative, and Just plain mean. I’m trying to find the difference between “grin and bare it” and standing up for myself and my family.

My mom is starting to routinely upset my family and causing me to sin. When is enough enough? I have a wife and 3 kids to care for now and we love Jesus and are proud Catholics.

Thoughts???
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Well, if your stepfather is in good health, you could buy him a mouthguard and some boxing equipment and celebrate Boxing Day with him by finding a gym with open sparring and have, as we say in hockey, a “conversation” with him…

Seriously, you invited them over, they refused, so wash your hands of it. Additionally, I find it humorous that parents complain about “do as I say not as I do” when so often that is their parenting style.

Two things from the Bible to ponder:
  1. A man is supposed to leave his father and mother to cleave to his wife. You’re just cleaving.
  2. There is a quote of Jesus where He states that He came to bring division and that families would be divided against each other.
 
I hope you have solved the issue now but honestly I think you should have just gone.
It’s a blessing just to have elderly parents still alive with us and it’s probably easier for you and family (younger people) to go there then for them to come to you.
Remember, one day parents will not be with us anymore. So it is not important who “hosts” Christmas dinner or what food or where, but that you are all together.

Your step father might sound immature on the surface but it likely just his way of expressing hurt.

It makes me sad when I see people misunderstanding Jesus words about bringing a sword to mean that Jesus was encouraging division amongst families.
Gods way is to always promote harmony, love and sacrifice amongst families and not strained relationships etc.
The sword/division refers to when a family member (or any one in this world) believes something that is contrary to what Jesus says, that the Christian should give precedence to Jesus’s ways , and therefor that can cause disharmony regardless of how hard the person tries to make harmony.
(For example when people have a loved one that believes in gay marriage and they don’t, sometimes the loved one may get mad at them or even reject them.)
Or another example might be a Muslim who became a Christian might on occasion be rejected by his family.

This verse shouldn’t be misused to suggest that God wants or discourages strained/lack of harmony relationships. Far from it.

Family is a great blessing that God has gave us:)
 
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Rozellelily said:
It’s a blessing just to have elderly parents still alive with us and it’s probably easier for you and family (younger people) to go there then for them to come to you.
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Trust me, not everyone’s parents are a blessing. Is it really being together if the physical proximity is only an excuse to attack and hurt the family member? Too many people value physical proximity and the appearance of a happy family over true peace and togetherness.

The problem with hurt is that hurt can often stem from pride and entitlement just as much as from genuine love. Like a child who is hurt and upset because they have to share with their sibling. Parents may expect that their adult children will be available and travel to them no matter what’s going on with their own families, and be hurt when it doesn’t happen.

It’s not really much of togetherness if you’re just there because someone would get mad if you didn’t.
 
DarkLight said:
Trust me, not everyone’s parents are a blessing
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I’m very sorry that is the situation.
Coming from a European background I guess I have different perspective on family then Americans who have more individual/nuclear family.

I am blessed with loving parents but even still, of course, they can have things that annoy me sometimes or try my patience.
I understand though that there are families with “toxic communication situations” etc.
I can only hope and pray that God will change this.

Being from different cultures, we will probably always differ on this.
For me, there is no thoughts regarding “entitlement mentality” when it comes to elderly parents.
Even if they do phrase something in a wrong way or be unreasonable, I will try to tolerate it because they are my priority and responsibility.
I try to remember the many sacrifices that they made for me and that there are many times when I was a baby and they changed nappy, or help me to not cry etc when they may not have felt like it etc.

They looked after me when I was young, and now I try to honour them now they are old.

I understand this is simplistic though, and that everyone’s situation is different:)

If you don’t have a good family I hope you can have some wonderful friends who will be like family:)

I pray you have a nice Christmas season.
 
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