Dilemma of uncertainty principal and God foreknowledge

[Bahman]

First, what is uncertainty principle:

Uncertainty principle states that for any measurable variable, X, there exist another conjugate measurable variable, Y, such that any knowledge of the exact value of X leaves the value of Y completely undetermined and vice versa. This principle can be written in a simple form DX*Dy~C where DX is a measure of certainty in measurement of variable X, DY is a measure of certainty in measurement of variable Y and C is a constant.

There is of course a tension between uncertainty principle and God foreknowledge meaning that God cannot possibly have the exact knowledge of universe state if uncertainty principle is correct and vice versa.

Your thought.

 

[Linusthe2nd]

First, what is uncertainty principle:

Uncertainty principle states that for any measurable variable, X, there exist another conjugate measurable variable, Y, such that any knowledge of the exact value of X leaves the value of Y completely undetermined and vice versa. This principle can be written in a simple form DX*Dy~C where DX is a measure of certainty in measurement of variable X, DY is a measure of certainty in measurement of variable Y and C is a constant.

There is of course a tension between uncertainty principle and God foreknowledge meaning that God cannot possibly have the exact knowledge of universe state if uncertainty principle is correct and vice versa.

Your thought.

Your imagination is working over time. There is no dilemma, no contradiction. I really don’t think there really is any " uncertainty, " just our inability to " see " what is going on. However, even if true, God knows all about it and has determined all possible effects.

Better luck next time.

Linus2nd

 

[Bahman]

Your imagination is working over time. There is no dilemma, no contradiction. I really don’t think there really is any " uncertainty, " just our inability to " see " what is going on. However, even if true, God knows all about it and has determined all possible effects.

Better luck next time.

Linus2nd

I recommend you to read this.

 

[Origen52]

Another philosophy 101 student toying with the concept of god’s omniscience. How many of these threads have been started in this forum?

Read Aquinas, read Kant, read Hegel, read Kierkegaard, then read the greatest of the atheist philosophers, Nietzsche, finally throw in Sartre’s “Being and Nothingness” and then come back.

 

[Origen52]

I recommend you to read this.

Wikipedia is a poor substitute for actually studying a subject. Read this nietzschesource.org/#eKGWB

 

[davidv]

I recommend you to read this.

How can you legitimately apply a a physical principle to the spiritual realm?

a variety of mathematical inequalities asserting a fundamental limit to the precision with which certain pairs of physical properties of a particle known as complementary variables, such as position x and momentum p, can be known simultaneously.

Emphasis mine.

 

[Bahman]

How can you legitimately apply a a physical principle to the spiritual realm?

This does apply whenever consciousness comes into play to acquire knowledge from subject matter. Doesn’t consciousness belong to spiritual reality?

 

[davidv]

This does apply whenever consciousness comes into play to acquire knowledge from subject matter. Doesn’t consciousness belong to spiritual reality?

Yes. So? The uncertainty principle is about physical things. How can you legitimately apply it to the spiritual?

 

[Bahman]

Yes. So? The uncertainty principle is about physical things. How can you legitimately apply it to the spiritual?

We are talking whether God has the ability to know a specific event happens in a given time and location in universe, namely physical world. The uncertainty principle clearly states that such thing is impossible.

 

[davidv]

We are talking whether God has the ability to know a specific event happens in a given time and location in universe, namely physical world. The uncertainty principle clearly states that such thing is impossible.

In the physical realm only. How do you know that God, as pure spirit, cannot transcend that limitation?

 

[Bookcat]

There is of course a tension between uncertainty principle and God foreknowledge meaning that God cannot possibly have the exact knowledge of universe state if uncertainty principle is correct and vice versa.

Your thought.

(Setting aside any supposed uncertainty idea (those various letters)…what that may be or not be…)

God is outside of time. It is not so much that he “forsees” that he has “foreknowedge” but that he “sees” that all of time is before him at once. He is outside of time.

(not planning to follow this thread - but I note that for such puts provides a very important part that was not seen in the question posed).

 

[Bahman]

In the physical realm only.

We don’t belong to physical reality. Our external experiences are only bounded to called objective reality.

How do you know that God, as pure spirit, cannot transcend that limitation?

First, because it is based on logic.

Second, because God is conscious being, unless you state otherwise, knowledge is utility of consciousness and this principle does apply to all conscious being.

Third, because you cannot be conscious if you have pure knowledge since consciousness grants freedom and knowledge imposes constraint.

 

[Bahman]

(Setting aside any supposed uncertainty idea (those various letters)…what that may be or not be…)

God is outside of time. It is not so much that he “forsees” that he has “foreknowedge” but that he “sees” that all of time is before him at once. He is outside of time.

(not planning to follow this thread - but I note that for such puts provides a very important part that was not seen in the question posed).

Is God consciousness? By consciousness I mean a thing that has ability to experience and affect. As you stated, your God is outside the time hence see future, but future is fixed because there is only one foreknowledge, hence God is not able to change anything, hence it is not consciousness.

 

[davidv]

We don’t belong to physical reality. Our external experiences are only bounded to called objective reality.

First, because it is based on logic.

Second, because God is conscious being, unless you state otherwise, knowledge is utility of consciousness and this principle does apply to all conscious being.

Third, because you cannot be conscious if you have pure knowledge since consciousness grants freedom and knowledge imposes constraint.

I consider this a non-answer. Good day.

 

[Bahman]

Please read posts #13 and #14.

 

[Bahman]

I consider this a non-answer. Good day.

Yes, because you don’t read throughly.

 

[davidv]

Is God consciousness?

No, God is Love. God is the first cause.

By consciousness I mean a thing that has ability to experience and affect. As you stated, your God is outside the time hence see future, but future is fixed because there is only one foreknowledge, hence God is not able to change anything, hence it is not consciousness.

Faulty logic at work. Strawman, non sequiteur, and equivocation to name a few.

 

[Bahman]

No, God is Love. God is the first cause.

Love is a utility of consciousness, like knowledge.

Faulty logic at work. Strawman, non sequiteur, and equivocation to name a few.

Come on, you cannot through those words and just leave. What is your definition of consciousness?

 

[davidv]

Love is a utility of consciousness, like knowledge.

Not when speaking of God. When speaking of God, Love an act of the will that desires the good of another.

Come on, you cannot through those words and just leave.

I can. And I did. Why? Because in the past detailed explanations were simply dismissed.

What is your definition of consciousness?

This
wikipedia:

Consciousness is the quality or state of awareness, or, of being aware of an external object or something within oneself.

Note that this definition does not allow for defining conscienceness as a being.

 

[Bahman]

Not when speaking of God. When speaking of God, Love an act of the will that desires the good of another.

Hence, God cannot do otherwise, hence it is a machine.

I can. And I did. Why? Because in the past detailed explanations were simply dismissed.

What?

This.

What do you mean?

Note that this definition does not allow for defining conscienceness as a being.

Consciousness is a being. It is very you.