Discernment Question: Catholic orthodoxy and the priesthood

[SemperTotusTuus]

Hello to everyone. First of all: what a blessing to see so many people here who love the Catholic Church, Her teachings and are serious about living the fullness of the faith! I am a cradle Catholic from Western Europe, 23 years old, and seriously discerning for the priesthood. English is not my mother tongue, nor the official language in my country. Yet, I am lucky to know some English. I have learned a lot about the Catholic faith through some great books/articles by American converts (Hahn, Kreeft etc.). My head and my heart are in perfect accord about the Catholic Church!
Now, what is my question? In my country, in my diocese and in the neighbouring dioceses, the old spirit of the sixties/seventies is still quite alive. Well, “alive”, is not exactly the right word to convey what is going on, since weekly mass attendance is dropping drastically and since this year the exact number of new candidates for the unified seminary for four dioceses (including mine) was zero. So-called liturgical abuses are all over the place. Young men with priestly vocations are going to other seminaries (even in adjacent countries) which are loyal to the Church teachings. At the same time I am blessed to know many young people here who are re-discovering the fullness of the Catholic faith. I see so many young people longing for what only Christ can give them (atheism is very prominent in my country) and so it is sometimes hard to see that your local Church is not an Oasis, but has been conforming itself to the arid spirit of the world. I am very hopeful for the future, but the present situation is difficult. I would love to be a priest here where I live, but I do not know if that is possible. I am very active in the pastoral care for youth at my university and am on good terms with the priests responsible for the pastoral care for the youth in my diocese: the president and vice-president of the seminary and a priest responsible for ecumenism. They are good Christians, but they e.g. never mention Mary, the importance of sacrament of Confession, the Church Teachings on moral issues, etc. In accord with my spiritual director who is a wonderful priest from a movement that is loyal to the Church, but not active in my diocese, I have never criticised them but always been supportive for the good things they do and also let them know that I really do love the pope and Catholic Orthodoxy. It is difficult to criticize those priest since the others (who are in their sixties and seventies) are – if I dare say so – far worse.
My bishop has been a missionary all his life who has inherited this liberal diocese three years ago (after being abroad for many years). He is faithful, but not a great authority in matters of theology (he has studied sacred music etc.) and has to trust a staff that is not loyal to Church teachings. I know him and I know that this situation is an ordeal for him. So, I wonder. Should I give my seminary’s diocese a try? Should I talk to my bishop about going abroad and then coming back?

 

[Convert_in_99]

What an awesome story!

Well…I picked up on your vocation in Meet and Greet…and I have been following you ever since! I don’t let potential vocations slip away easily.

I wish you the best and you are guaranteed my prayers!

 

[Convert_in_99]

In answer to your question…how are your church boundaries divided up in your country?

We have archdiocese and diocese? Is that what you have?

Well we have lots of young men in the US find a diocese they are comfortable with and study and serve there. Only problem with that is that sometimes their beloved bishop gets transferred. So nothing is ever a definite.

 

[SemperTotusTuus]

Well, Belgium is a rather small country. We have one archdiocese and eight dioceses. One diocese in the French-speaking south of my country has an orthodox bishop. There are more seminarians in his seminary than in all the five (bigger) dioceses of the Dutch-speaking north together. (I live in the north ) I speak French fluently, so it would not be a problem for me to go there, but I wonder if it will be possible then to come back to my diocese (since the orthodox bishop is an object of controversy there ) At the same time I know the responsible priests in my diocese really like me. I daily pray for them, for more courage to obey the pope and to spread the orthodox faith!
Thank you so much for your prayers! “I don’t let potential vocations slip away easily.” In that sense you are a bit like Our Blessed Mother. I really feel that she loves potential priests.

In answer to your question…how are your church boundaries divided up in your country?

We have archdiocese and diocese? Is that what you have?

Well we have lots of young men in the US find a diocese they are comfortable with and study and serve there. Only problem with that is that sometimes their beloved bishop gets transferred. So nothing is ever a definite.

 

[augieboo]

I speak French fluently, so it would not be a problem for me to go there, but I wonder if it will be possible then to come back to my diocese (since the orthodox bishop is an object of controversy there ) At the same time I know the responsible priests in my diocese really like me.

The question is, do “the responsible priests” in your diocese hold the power in your diocese?

Why do I ask?

Because the priests who hold the power in your diocese undoubtedly control the seminary admission process and the seminary itself.

So, unless “the responsible priests” hold the power in your diocese I must, with great sadness, advise you to go south – for the good of the Church and your vocation.

Why?

Because the priests who hold the power in your diocese do not want people like you to become priests, and they have the power to prevent it.

A true vocation can never be lost – Christ does not let that happen. But it is possible for misguided priests like the ones who hold power in many dioceses to make sure that an orthodox young man is never ordained. (This happened to a good friend of mine more than thirty years ago and he has never recovered from it.)

But the Sacrament of Ordination, once given, can never be removed. So go south, where you know the powers that be in the diocese will work to nurture your vocation rather than to block it. You can worry about returning to your home diocese later.

 

[SemperTotusTuus]

Hello Augieboo,

Thanks for your advice! Indeed, the priests mentioned hold the power in my diocese. Sadly, I think I live in one of the worst regions in Western Europe in terms of Catholic orthodoxy. In adjacent countries I see a renewed interest in Catholic orthodoxy (in part thanks to the World Youth Days that took place there) and because it is the formula that works.
Many young people with vocations go southwards or abroad. I don’t understand why the people in power do not see the reason why they have no new seminarians…

 

[augieboo]

I don’t understand why the people in power do not see the reason why they have no new seminarians…

Sadly, I think it is because they don’t honestly want new seminarians. Or if they do want new seminarians, they only want ones who can be manipulated or bullied into subscribing to the perverse ideology to which they subsribe in lieu of faith and loyalty to Christ’s Church.

 

[bilop]

God Bless you in your vocation.

I would say go south. If you got to an un-orthodox seminary they may try to destroy your faith and vocation. Have you read the book “Good Bye, Good Men”? It chronicles problems with un-orthodox seminaries in the U.S. and how they drove out and persecuted orthodox young men.

Once you become a priest, you can then work for change.

God Bless

 

[RevDrNorth]

God Bless you in your vocation.

I would say go south. If you got to an un-orthodox seminary they may try to destroy your faith and vocation. Have you read the book “Good Bye, Good Men”? It chronicles problems with un-orthodox seminaries in the U.S. and how they drove out and persecuted orthodox young men.

Once you become a priest, you can then work for change.

God Bless

Sounds like an interesting book.

Rev North

 

[augieboo]

Sounds like an interesting book.

Rev North

Re: Goodbye, Good Men (Click the name to go to the book on Amazon.)

Most frightening thing I’ve ever read.

Luckily, from what I’ve heard, things are not as bad in the US anymore. The reason I advised our Belgian friend to go South is that things may well still be that bad there.

 

[RevDrNorth]

Re: Goodbye, Good Men (Click the name to go to the book on Amazon.)

Most frightening thing I’ve ever read.

Luckily, from what I’ve heard, things are not as bad in the US anymore. The reason I advised our Belgian friend to go South is that things may well still be that bad there.

I notice Fr. Trujilio gave the book a good review. How sad. Yet in terms of homosexuality and I have known several gay Priests (as I mention on another thread). One made a pass at a friend of mine who quit going to mass (his fiancee told me) and then another Priest that lives with his boyfriend.

Good reason for you orthodox/ethical men discerning the Priesthood to go forward and be a new generation restoring the Church.

Rev North

 

[SemperTotusTuus]

God Bless you in your vocation.

I would say go south. If you got to an un-orthodox seminary they may try to destroy your faith and vocation. Have you read the book “Good Bye, Good Men”? It chronicles problems with un-orthodox seminaries in the U.S. and how they drove out and persecuted orthodox young men.

Once you become a priest, you can then work for change.

God Bless

Thanks for your advice! I haven’t read the book you mention, but I have heard about it. Sounds pretty sad, but not surprising to me. It is time for change, indeed!

 

[bilop]

I notice Fr. Trujilio gave the book a good review. How sad. Yet in terms of homosexuality and I have known several gay Priests (as I mention on another thread). One made a pass at a friend of mine who quit going to mass (his fiancee told me) and then another Priest that lives with his boyfriend.

Good reason for you orthodox/ethical men discerning the Priesthood to go forward and be a new generation restoring the Church.

Rev North

Father Trigilio is one of the seminarians/priests profile in the book. He was harassed and persecuted for being faithful to the magisterium.

This is part of a review where Fr. Trigilio speaks of his experience.

Systematic persecution
It is the short chapter on how psychological counselling is used to expel orthodox students from the seminary at all costs that really drives home the implacable ideological mindset driving the Modernist train. “The one book that helped me persevere through my twelve years in the seminary,” stated Father John Trigilio, “was Alexsandr Sozhenitsyn’s Gulag Archipelago. His imprisonment and constant surveillance was in many ways identical to my seminary life, in which cultural revolutionaries sought to ‘rehabilitate’ the orthodox into becoming full-fledged party members of the new dissidence. As in the former USSR, if you opposed the ‘party line’ which in the case of the seminary was their particular brand of heterodoxy, then you were labeled as mentally unfit and kept under close scrutiny ‘for your own safety.’ The mind games, spying, and hidden agenda as well as the vast bureaucracy of the KGB was cloned in the seminaries across America. Fellow seminarians spy on one another; blackmail, intimidation, slander, threats, and even violence are employed to protect the status quo. Quote the Pope and you are an archconservative, John Birch, KKK, Neo-Nazi; quote Gore Vidal and you are an intellectual Renaissance man.”

Reflecting on his numerous classmates who understandably wilted in this intolerable environment and sooner or later left the seminary, Fr. Trigilio commented: “I actually saw vocations tortured and killed by those who were supposedly there to promote and foster vocations. [It was] a real persecution and systematic extermination of orthodoxy and manly piety so as to artificially create a climate for married and women clergy.”

Very scary. But, apparently the worse is over and things are better today. Most of the egregious seminaries have been closed or reorganized.

God Bless

 

[under_the_dome]

I just noticed this thread and decided to post a reply…

STT, I’m not sure if you are still discerning, or if this issue has passed and you have already made a decision, but I would say to go south. It will allow you to receive solid formation while at the same time giving you a chance to discern where you are really called to serve God’s faithful (indeed, it sounds like you are ultimately needed most in your home diocese). If it comes down to it, there is no canonical reason that I know of that you could not be incardinated in your home diocese after studying down south. Usually, out of obedience, one should give their home seminary the benefit of the doubt. If there are grave concerns that it could be detrimental to your vocation, however, the prudential thing is to go where you will be receiving good formation. May God guide you down the path that he, in his wisdom, has laid down for you!

 

[SemperTotusTuus]

I just noticed this thread and decided to post a reply…

STT, I’m not sure if you are still discerning, or if this issue has passed and you have already made a decision, but I would say to go south. It will allow you to receive solid formation while at the same time giving you a chance to discern where you are really called to serve God’s faithful (indeed, it sounds like you are ultimately needed most in your home diocese). If it comes down to it, there is no canonical reason that I know of that you could not be incardinated in your home diocese after studying down south. Usually, out of obedience, one should give their home seminary the benefit of the doubt. If there are grave concerns that it could be detrimental to your vocation, however, the prudential thing is to go where you will be receiving good formation. May God guide you down the path that he, in his wisdom, has laid down for you!

Hi,
Thanks for your advice! I think you are right. One should give his home diocese the benefit of the doubt, but I think there are grave concerns that the formation here could be detrimental to a potential vocation. It is still six/seven years of one’s life. So, yes: even if it is a difficult decision, I think I shall go south. God bless!