Discernment, with parental opposition

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Dear CAF members,

I’ve been an avid CAF lurker here for many months :p, and many times my questions have been answered and my life changed because of these forums. And now I hope to seek out your help a little more personally… I apologize in advance for the long post and applaud you for reading through to the end. 👍

I am a 22-year-old young woman discerning the possibility of marriage with a 23-year-old young man. Both of us are hard-core Catholics, he being born into the faith, and I converted about 3 years ago. He has been my best friend since high school; we started dating at the age of 16 and 17, attended university together, and eventually ended our dating relationship about 1.5 years ago to truly discern what vocation God is calling us to, whether it be together or not. During that period of time, I finished my last year of university, we both dated other people, and both relationships ended drastically different to how each of us could foresee them heading. I also left the state to pursue an internship opportunity for 4 months. We continued to talk and see each other, strictly as friends and remained cautious so as not to lead the other on. God granted us a gracious amount of time to be separated from each other, physically and emotionally, in order to properly discern where He is leading each of us in our lives. Praise be to Him, because each of us has grown dramatically as Catholics and as individuals since our decision to end our dating relationship.

After much prayer and careful thought, we decided, just a few weeks ago, to begin discerning the possibility of marriage together. 🙂 Both of us are excited, and very serious about doing the Will of God and are readily willing to accept whatever this may be.

Here’s where it gets a bit tricky. I come from a very broken family. Mother and father divorced; father’s an alcoholic with a great bout of depression; mother is “engaged” to be married for the third time and living an unchaste life; brother is an atheist and also living an unchaste life. No one in my family is Catholic, and frankly, they have declared that they never will be. (We’ll see about that! 😉 )

My boyfriend, on the other hand, comes from a very Polish, Catholic family. He and his siblings are the first of his generation born in the U.S., so his parents are directly from Poland. I get along very well with his mother and all 4 of his siblings (all of which are my close friends), and they have taken me in as a part of their family. His mother is open to the Will of God, and therefore is open to our discerning together. His father, however, is not. He has not liked me from day one, and to be honest, I don’t know why since he has not attempted to get to know me in the 6.5 years that I have known his family. He has argued with my boyfriend many times in the past about our relationship, and has now begun again. His main arguments? I’m not Polish, I’m short (5’2", whereas my boyfriend is 6’4"), and I come from a “bad” family. Note, these are all factors that I can not change, at least not without some miracles.

He is a very emotional and prideful man. I’m not saying this to cut him down, because I respect the man very much; I’m saying this as an observation, as subjective as it may be. Whenever he and his son talk about these things, he makes irrational arguments or changes the subject to suit his taste in the discussion. I understand that the Polish culture is very important to my boyfriend and his family, and I respect that very much (I have been trying to immerse myself in the language, food and traditions as much as I can during these years, even attending Polish Mass!). Being Polish is part of who my boyfriend is, and I, in no way, wish to erase that part of him; I want to support him in every way that I can. Cultural difference is something that a husband and wife can work through, and the culture/language can properly pass on to the children. Also, marriage in a Polish, Catholic family has a much greater emphasis on marrying an entire family, including their problems. So, I understand his father’s concern, but that does not mean that we should forgo a marriage willed by God because of my family’s sins. My understanding and desire for marriage is much deeper than that of my parents’, who are very much products of the sexual revolution. Their errors have granted me insight as to what I should and shouldn’t do in a marriage, and has caused me to despise divorce far greater than I could imagine. However, the fact that my being short has any merit in my discernment with this young man is beyond my understanding… 🤷

I do hope that I’m not coming off as lacking humility. :o I’m sincerely puzzled as to what to make of this! I have not met many people my age who have gone through this type of discernment, or these troubles. I guess what I am seeking is any kind of advice or related experience with this type of situation. Those who come from Polish or Slavic cultures are encouraged to post, as well! I would also like to ask for your prayers, that the Will of God be done in our lives, and in the lives of our families.

I thank you so much for your replies, and if you need anymore background or have questions, please let me know. Peace and God’s blessings to you all! 🙂
 
That’s hard. I’m the opposite (Non-Catholic apostate from a Catholic family), but no matter what, being a different faith from your family is hard. Plus it sounds like your family is having issues. (I can’t condemn your mom and brother, honestly, but I’m not Catholic, so I have a different set of values. However, Alcoholism is a serious issue. A few of my family members were. It’s not good) Anyway, It’s a tough situation all around. I think if you try to talk to his father and tell him that you’re different, and your family life shouldn’t matter, because you’re living the faith, and that you have no intention of trying to change or erase your fiance’s culture. Maybe try bringing over a traditional Polish dish or something like that. If it’s homemade, I’m sure that would earn some points in his eyes. Regarding the short thing, I’m short, too. (5’1"). 🙂 Anyway, with divorce, I think the main problem with divorce is communication. People have stopped communicating and working through issues. I’ve never had to deal with divorce, my mom’s a widow, but I know how hard it is from friends who have gone through it. Also, talk to your fiance, too. It will help with opening communication, as well as brainstorm other things you can do to get through it.

Best of luck!
 
Thank you, Eris, for your insight! Being in a mixed-faith marriage, I’m sure, is much more difficult than a mixed-culture marriage! I appreciate all of the tidbits of advice that you offered me, and I think the food dish, and a honest discussion with his father, would most likely be the best thing to do. 🙂 The most difficult aspect is the language barrier, since his father speaks fluent Polish, and has quite an accent… but, his English is rather good, I must say! My boyfriend and I are very open with each other, so communication isn’t a problem on our end. Thank you again! 👍

P.S. We aren’t engaged, we’re just in a courting relationship… but I do hope God will bless us with that stage eventually! 🙂
 
The height thing is just ridiculous.

The ethnicity thing is completely unrealistic - while there may be value for some people in seeking out spouses with similar ethnicities, this is not likely in this day and age, and it’s really irrational for a family member to not be able to get over that.

The broken family thing is a little more understandable. Because when parents divorce, and when parents are dysfunctional, the children are affected. So perhaps he’s worried that you’ve learned some of your parents wrong values, or some of their faults. True, we are not our parents, but I know that I have many of the same faults that my mother has, and it is a common thing to do when you’re evaluating a person to look at their family.

That said, he’s not the one interested in marrying you, so he doesn’t get to be tough about this. If you’ve found ways to deal with the issues that a broken family must have thrust upon you, and if you’ve coped in such a way that you are confident you are not primed to make the same mistakes your parents made, then these are things for your boyfriend to learn about you. And if you and he wish, either he or you could briefly discuss this fact with his father, to set his mind at ease that you are prepared for a long, faithful marriage.

Maybe though, you can just be sure that you and your boyfriend are comfortable with those issues, and let your boyfriend talk to his dad if he wants. If the father is seriously claiming things like height and ethnicity as problems though, I wouldn’t get my hopes up that he’ll suddenly be convinced and come on board. I’d be particularly interested in seeing how your boyfriend handles it. If he does discern marriage to you, does he put you above his father, or does he make excuses for him and let his fathers concerns rule his decisions. I say this because if his father is the type to stick his nose in where it doesn’t belong now, there’s a good chance he’ll do it when you’re married, and you’ll want to know that your husband will always be loyal to you.
 
Rini said:
Thank you, Eris, for your insight! Being in a mixed-faith marriage, I’m sure, is much more difficult than a mixed-culture marriage! I appreciate all of the tidbits of advice that you offered me, and I think the food dish, and a honest discussion with his father, would most likely be the best thing to do. 🙂 The most difficult aspect is the language barrier, since his father speaks fluent Polish, and has quite an accent… but, his English is rather good, I must say! My boyfriend and I are very open with each other, so communication isn’t a problem on our end. Thank you again! 👍

P.S. We aren’t engaged, we’re just in a courting relationship… but I do hope God will bless us with that stage eventually! 🙂
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I don’t know why I thought you guys were engaged. I thought you weren’t but I wanted to be on the safe side. Language barriers are hard. It depends on the culture of the people in question, so it can be a challenge. An online friend of mine is going through similar difficulties with her fiance, because they are Muslim, and her family is Catholic. They were being unkind about it the last time I checked. My grandmother also had the same issue, she converted to Catholicism from Mennonite, and her family cut her off. She was short too, at 4’9. My grandfather was in the 6 foot range. These are both faith AND cultural issues. Although mixed-faith is hard, too. I dated a militant atheist, and I’m a theist. That was unpleasant, to say the very least about that relationship. I’m glad my advice helped! I know, I’m not Catholic, but I can see where you’re coming from. It’s good you have good communication. So many people don’t, and they wonder why things get really bad. My boyfriend and I are always honest with each other, and we’ve been dating almost a year now. We rarely fight, too. Although my family loves him, and I think my mother would be ECSTATIC if we decided to get married. Too soon for that, right now, but I wouldn’t be opposed to the idea.

I hope you keep me updated on your situation! I hope everything works out. Parents can be scary, but I think you can win them over. 👍
 
ThyKingdomCome said:
The height thing is just ridiculous.

The ethnicity thing is completely unrealistic - while there may be value for some people in seeking out spouses with similar ethnicities, this is not likely in this day and age, and it’s really irrational for a family member to not be able to get over that.
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She did say he was born in Poland. In Poland and Polish culture, marrying a Pole carries with it a different cultural value than we have here in America. The father is either 1. hoping to carry on the Polish family line because of cultural reasons or 2. is just piling more negatives on top of the broken family thing that he really doesnt like. People that come from broken families tend to have emotional issues and the family drama from it does follow them in many cases throughout their life. It can effect both sides of a marriage. It also for some makes them worried that the son/daughter’s marriage will end in similar turmoil.
 
Rini said:
I get along very well with his mother and all 4 of his siblings (all of which are my close friends), and they have taken me in as a part of their family. His mother is open to the Will of God, and therefore is open to our discerning together. His father, however, is not. He has not liked me from day one, and to be honest, I don’t know why since he has not attempted to get to know me in the 6.5 years that I have known his family. He has argued with my boyfriend many times in the past about our relationship, and has now begun again. His main arguments? I’m not Polish, I’m short (5’2", whereas my boyfriend is 6’4"), and I come from a “bad” family. Note, these are all factors that I can not change, at least not without some miracles.

I do hope that I’m not coming off as lacking humility. :o I’m sincerely puzzled as to what to make of this! I have not met many people my age who have gone through this type of discernment, or these troubles. I guess what I am seeking is any kind of advice or related experience with this type of situation. Those who come from Polish or Slavic cultures are encouraged to post, as well! I would also like to ask for your prayers, that the Will of God be done in our lives, and in the lives of our families.
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I am actually an immigrant from a Slavic culture (albeit not Polish), but to be honest I doubt this man’s attitude has anything whatsoever to do with the fact that he’s Polish and more to do with the kind of man he is.

My advice to you would be to ignore this man and stop thinking about his opinion of you, he has issues with your height of all things! It’s possible that once you marry he will warm up to you, although if I were you I would never warm up to him after his actions.

I would be happy and thankful for the boyfriend that you have, and focus on your future life together with him. After all, you are not marrying his father, and you can choose to reduce your interaction with the father to once or twice a year Christmas/Thanksgiving dinners.
 
I come from a Catholic Slavic/Russian line on one side and a WASP line on the other. You know what - my maternal grandparents had some issues with my Dad until you know what happenned - I was born. And it was my Russian/Slavic father that did most of the helping out with my WASP grandmother in the last days of her life and she could not have loved him more. Things change with children and time. The Holy Spirit will open his eyes - before that his wife probably will too. 😉
 
Hi all!
I would like to thank you all for your insight and reassurance in this situation that we are in. As much as I would like to say things are changing for the better, well…

I figured I would update the situation a bit…

Turns out my boyfriend’s mom isn’t so open to us discerning together, either. 😦 Both she and her husband (his parents) spoke with him for an hour today regarding our discernment. The fact that I’m not Polish is the big one… they just have a bad feeling about it all. They care for him and want him to be happy, and so are trying to look out for him since they have witnessed other mixed-culture/faith marriages falter. I completely understand that, but I feel they are putting too much emphasis on the fact that I’m not of Polish blood, and not enough on my Catholic faith. What about God’s will in all of this??? They desire God’s will to be done in their son’s life, but must they approve of it first?

My boyfriend has tried so hard to show them that he’s not being a fool about this, but they won’t listen to him when he tells them that he’s not stuck on emotions or feelings. We’re approaching this with reason, intellect, stable emotion, faith and lots of prayer. He’s fed up with their excuses and, frankly, I am, too. We’ve been dealing with this for 5+ years.

My boyfriend would like me to speak with his parents face-to-face about all of this (with him by my side, of course) but, honestly, I don’t know what I would say. :o They’re very intimidating people, I don’t care how grand you are. I’d like to think that I could be strong and graceful in my conversation, but who am I kidding? I’m nervous just thinking about it! Personally, I want to talk to a good priest about all of this and get some Catholic advice on this mixed-culture “problem”…

How do you good folks think I should approach this? Be honest. Thank you, again, for all of your help! 🙂
 
God bless you, you sound like a wonderful girl and these folks should be glad their son is considering marrying you.
Good idea, to talk with a priest. Perhaps the two of you could discuss it with the family’s priest, who doubtless knows his parents well. Perhaps he would even be present at this discussion with the family. Priests are usually pretty level headed and not prone to prejudice.
You could just become engaged and stay low-key for a year, and they may get used to the idea. It may be that they would not be happy with any woman their son brought home. Some parents are like that.
In that case, it would depend on how assertive your boyfriend is able to be. If he insists that his parents treat you with respect and not harass him constantly about giving you up, it may work, but if he knuckles under to them, it might be better to separate.
That is why it’s helpful to become engaged, to see if it will work out.
By the way, speaking of mixed marriages, my husband speaks only Spanish, and I only started learning it a few years before our marriage. We’ve been married 16 years. Our cultures are very different, but we find that respect solves most problems. The problems we have are not related to the differences in culture.
 
Rini said:
How do you good folks think I should approach this? Be honest. Thank you, again, for all of your help! 🙂
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You have to stop caring about what they think. I know it’s hard, but, is your boyfriend’s decision affected by his parents approval of you? If they never approve, is he going to break up and look for someone else?

If yes, he’s not the kind of man you want anyway, considering that he’d put his parents (ridiculous) wishes above your relationship.

If no, then it doesn’t really matter what his parents think about you. If I were you, I’d go to the meeting (because the boyfriend wants it) and say all the right things. Smile at the right time, talk about how your Catholic faith and family are important to you, essentially tell them what they want to hear (whatever it may be). Wear heels if you want so you don’t look so short to his dad. 😛

But I would emotionally disconnect from it. Should you marry your boyfriend, these people will have to accept you if they want any part of the grandkids’ lives. Then it will be up to you whether to forgive them for this ridiculousness.
 
Rini said:
but I feel they are putting too much emphasis on the fact that I’m not of Polish blood, and not enough on my Catholic faith. What about God’s will in all of this??? They desire God’s will to be done in their son’s life, but must they approve of it first?
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No, their approval is not necessary. In fact, here is what the Catechism has to say to parents:

2230 When they become adults, children have the right and duty to choose their profession and state of life. They should assume their new responsibilities within a trusting relationship with their parents, willingly asking and receiving their advice and counsel. Parents should be careful not to exert pressure on their children either in the choice of a profession or in that of a spouse. This necessary restraint does not prevent them - quite the contrary from giving their children judicious advice, particularly when they are planning to start a family.
Rini said:
My boyfriend has tried so hard to show them that he’s not being a fool about this, but they won’t listen to him when he tells them that he’s not stuck on emotions or feelings. We’re approaching this with reason, intellect, stable emotion, faith and lots of prayer. He’s fed up with their excuses and, frankly, I am, too. We’ve been dealing with this for 5+ years.
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Stop talking with his parents and start talking to a priest.

His parents CAN be a big thorn in your side for the rest of your life if you marry this man. I have so many friends with evil in-laws. They meddle, they are rude, they insult, they make drama by the ton. In other cases, in-laws have come around, but you can’t count on it. You and the boyfriend need to talk through all the “what ifs”. What if you get married and his parents disrespect you and cause trouble? Is he willing to defend you, to create appropriate boundaries, and to follow through by curtailing contact with them if it gets to that point? You need to talk about what if.
Rini said:
My boyfriend would like me to speak with his parents face-to-face about all of this (with him by my side, of course) but, honestly, I don’t know what I would say. :o They’re very intimidating people, I don’t care how grand you are. I’d like to think that I could be strong and graceful in my conversation, but who am I kidding? I’m nervous just thinking about it! Personally, I want to talk to a good priest about all of this and get some Catholic advice on this mixed-culture “problem”…

How do you good folks think I should approach this? Be honest. Thank you, again, for all of your help! 🙂
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If you don’t have a spine of steel and the will to stand up to his parents, or he doesn’t, get a different boyfriend.

If you are willing to stand up for yourself and your boyfriend is willing to choose you over his parents **if **it came to that, then talk to your priest.

Hope for the best, but you both must be preparedd to go it alone if necessary. Fankly, you don’t owe them explanations and you don’t need to beg for their approval. I wouldn’t do it. I would just go about my business as a couple, talk to a priest, and go from there.

And, also, frankly, your boyfriend is playing their game. Going over there, talking for an HOUR, getting a “talking to” by his father. Really. He’s a grown man. This doesn’t sound like a man who is willing to say “This is how it is Mom and Dad. You will respect my choice in a spouse, you will respect her and never say another word about this, or else.” No, he isn’t doing that. He’s trying to win their approval, and it seems he really needs that. If he can’t live without their approval, get another boyfriend.

And, if you do get married choose carefully where you live-- somewhere far enough away to have space and not have unrealistic demands on you, and somewhere it makes it harder for them to meddle. A few hours or a day’s drive away at a minimum!
 
1ke said:
No, their approval is not necessary. In fact, here is what the Catechism has to say to parents:

2230 When they become adults, children have the right and duty to choose their profession and state of life. They should assume their new responsibilities within a trusting relationship with their parents, willingly asking and receiving their advice and counsel. Parents should be careful not to exert pressure on their children either in the choice of a profession or in that of a spouse. This necessary restraint does not prevent them - quite the contrary from giving their children judicious advice, particularly when they are planning to start a family.

Stop talking with his parents and start talking to a priest.

His parents CAN be a big thorn in your side for the rest of your life if you marry this man. I have so many friends with evil in-laws. They meddle, they are rude, they insult, they make drama by the ton. In other cases, in-laws have come around, but you can’t count on it. You and the boyfriend need to talk through all the “what ifs”. What if you get married and his parents disrespect you and cause trouble? Is he willing to defend you, to create appropriate boundaries, and to follow through by curtailing contact with them if it gets to that point? You need to talk about what if.

If you don’t have a spine of steel and the will to stand up to his parents, or he doesn’t, get a different boyfriend.

If you are willing to stand up for yourself and your boyfriend is willing to choose you over his parents **if **it came to that, then talk to your priest.

Hope for the best, but you both must be preparedd to go it alone if necessary. Fankly, you don’t owe them explanations and you don’t need to beg for their approval. I wouldn’t do it. I would just go about my business as a couple, talk to a priest, and go from there.

And, also, frankly, your boyfriend is playing their game. Going over there, talking for an HOUR, getting a “talking to” by his father. Really. He’s a grown man. This doesn’t sound like a man who is willing to say “This is how it is Mom and Dad. You will respect my choice in a spouse, you will respect her and never say another word about this, or else.” No, he isn’t doing that. He’s trying to win their approval, and it seems he really needs that. If he can’t live without their approval, get another boyfriend.

And, if you do get married choose carefully where you live-- somewhere far enough away to have space and not have unrealistic demands on you, and somewhere it makes it harder for them to meddle. A few hours or a day’s drive away at a minimum!
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I second all of this. There is always going to be something either the inlaws or the parents don’t like or don’t agree with. You are full grown adults and you don’t need their approval for anything. For the record my mother didn’t approve of my choice of husband either but it didn’t stop me from marrying him. Today she has no problems with him.
 
I would absolutely advise against going over and having you talk to his parents. If he can’t stand up to them, then nobody can and by he asking you to do what he can’t do himself is putting you in a very, very bad situation. It will not end well. It would be different if he said he wanted to show his parents a united front, and he did all the talking.

He needs to grow a backbone about this situation, of course doing it in a civil and respectful way as possible. But neither of you are rushing into marriage, you have thought this out, you’re both adults and sounds like you both are very responsible for your own lives in every other area but when it comes to your boyfriend cutting the umbilical cord so to speak. There is always the possibility that they will accept you after you two get married, but there is also a strong chance they will continue to be a problem to as long as he is not respected for the decision he makes for choosing you for a wife.
 
Rini said:
My boyfriend would like me to speak with his parents face-to-face about all of this (with him by my side, of course) but, honestly, I don’t know what I would say. :o
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I don’t know what there is to say. Apologize for not being Polish? Apologize for being a loveable person that your bf considers worthy of marrying? Beg them to like you? Jump through hoops to prove that you’re good spouse material? Is this really their domain? And what could they possibly have to say to you that you need to listen to? That you’re not good enough for their son, or that they have all sorts of irrational fears? I think it’s time for your boyfriend to stand up to them and tell them that they’ve had their chance to speak their concerns, but who he marries is his decision, and they need to be respectful to you. He can do it in front of you if he likes, but I just don’t see any reason for you to have a sit down chat about your inadequacies with the people who are angling for your exit from the relationship. If he is not able to do this, then it means he either agrees with them, or he hasn’t cut the apron strings yet. I wouldn’t consider marrying him until it is very clear that his loyalty lies with you, and not his parents’ approval.
 
I’m chiming in here for a few reasons. First, I come from a Polish background (my grandparents came from Poland), and the lady I was dating last year was a Polish immigrant. Hang on to this guy!

As far as the parents objecting to not being Polish, I think that is normal for the first generation or two that are in the USA to be overjoyed that their son/daughter marry someone within their own ethnic group, and this is not limited to just the Polish. And unfortunately, yes, there may be some that will make it an absolute requirement. There may be the issue of communication (would his dad also object to his son marrying a girl from a Polish background but did not speak or understand Polish?). Also do they have a lot of close family back in Poland? Is their Polish background urban or rural, and if rural is it a northern Kaszubian or southern Góral background? It may not be right, but I don’t know what can be done about it unless your boyfriend flat out states to his dad “would you rather have me marry a pagan Jezebel?” But if your boyfriend is arguing with his father over this, then it does show he is standing up to his father. I don’t know, maybe your bf and his dad need to settle it in the boxing ring? Or, more to the point, his dad needs to get back to Church and hear “for that reason a man shall leave his father and mother and cling to his wife”.

That being said, the only thing they may have a legitimate concern over is your family of origin. I can relate because I had to deal with alcoholism in my family, and although there was no divorce, I did lose my parents early and so did not have the “normal” mother/father relationships during the latter part of growing up. Keep in mind, too, that alcoholism is a problem in eastern Europe, and alcoholism in your family may “trigger” some bad memories from their past experiences. It is also said that our family of origin has a lot to do with forming our experiences and attitudes. However, from what you said:
Their errors have granted me insight as to what I should and shouldn’t do in a marriage, and has caused me to despise divorce far greater than I could imagine
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it shows that you have actually taken a negative and turned it into a positive (which has been what I’ve been trying to do all these years). I can only say that you can try to use that attitude to convince them, otherwise you are being penalized for something someone else did. And to be blunt, it is very sickening that there are Catholics who will browbeat people to not hold another’s sexual past against him/her but rather “look at the person for how he/she is now and look to the future”, but people do penalize others for things that are not their fault/responsibility. Brains screwed on backwards.

What do his siblings think about this whole issue?

Remember, too, that at one point the family “took you in as part of their family”, so with at least everyone but the father, you have some basis for a decent relationship. However, there is no perfect famly relationship, and there will always be some problems to deal with. This may be yours, and you just may have to accept it. 😦

Perhaps there are other forum members who have overcome objections from in-laws due to ethnicity (whether eastern Eurpoean or not), and they can post their experiences or how they overcame it.
 
1ke said:
Stop talking with his parents and start talking to a priest.

His parents CAN be a big thorn in your side for the rest of your life if you marry this man. I have so many friends with evil in-laws. They meddle, they are rude, they insult, they make drama by the ton. In other cases, in-laws have come around, but you can’t count on it. You and the boyfriend need to talk through all the “what ifs”. What if you get married and his parents disrespect you and cause trouble? Is he willing to defend you, to create appropriate boundaries, and to follow through by curtailing contact with them if it gets to that point? You need to talk about what if.

If you don’t have a spine of steel and the will to stand up to his parents, or he doesn’t, get a different boyfriend.

If you are willing to stand up for yourself and your boyfriend is willing to choose you over his parents **if **it came to that, then talk to your priest.

Hope for the best, but you both must be preparedd to go it alone if necessary. Fankly, you don’t owe them explanations and you don’t need to beg for their approval. I wouldn’t do it. I would just go about my business as a couple, talk to a priest, and go from there.

And, also, frankly, your boyfriend is playing their game. Going over there, talking for an HOUR, getting a “talking to” by his father. Really. He’s a grown man. This doesn’t sound like a man who is willing to say “This is how it is Mom and Dad. You will respect my choice in a spouse, you will respect her and never say another word about this, or else.” No, he isn’t doing that. He’s trying to win their approval, and it seems he really needs that. If he can’t live without their approval, get another boyfriend.

And, if you do get married choose carefully where you live-- somewhere far enough away to have space and not have unrealistic demands on you, and somewhere it makes it harder for them to meddle. A few hours or a day’s drive away at a minimum!
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PatriceA said:
I would absolutely advise against going over and having you talk to his parents. If he can’t stand up to them, then nobody can and by he asking you to do what he can’t do himself is putting you in a very, very bad situation. It will not end well. It would be different if he said he wanted to show his parents a united front, and he did all the talking.

He needs to grow a backbone about this situation, of course doing it in a civil and respectful way as possible. But neither of you are rushing into marriage, you have thought this out, you’re both adults and sounds like you both are very responsible for your own lives in every other area but when it comes to your boyfriend cutting the umbilical cord so to speak. There is always the possibility that they will accept you after you two get married, but there is also a strong chance they will continue to be a problem to as long as he is not respected for the decision he makes for choosing you for a wife.
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ThyKingdomCome said:
I don’t know what there is to say. Apologize for not being Polish? Apologize for being a loveable person that your bf considers worthy of marrying? Beg them to like you? Jump through hoops to prove that you’re good spouse material? Is this really their domain? And what could they possibly have to say to you that you need to listen to? That you’re not good enough for their son, or that they have all sorts of irrational fears? I think it’s time for your boyfriend to stand up to them and tell them that they’ve had their chance to speak their concerns, but who he marries is his decision, and they need to be respectful to you. He can do it in front of you if he likes, but I just don’t see any reason for you to have a sit down chat about your inadequacies with the people who are angling for your exit from the relationship. If he is not able to do this, then it means he either agrees with them, or he hasn’t cut the apron strings yet. I wouldn’t consider marrying him until it is very clear that his loyalty lies with you, and not his parents’ approval.
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From what Rini has posted, the bf does have a backbone. And I’m not going to advise to move away from the family right away, as I have seen where moving away from a family support system can be a factor in divorce. And is certainly is easier and a lot less stressful when you don’t have to battle your family. Families will always try to (or should) look out for each other in making sure there will be no potential problems with spouses (I know when I was dating the Polish lady last year, one aunt expressed concern that she could be using me for a green card - it turns out she is a citizen and we both voted for the same person in the 2008 presidential primary). And I believe that the whole process of “meeting the parents” is one of the most stressful points in a dating relationship, and just about every relationship involves an attempt to “sell” one’s self to the other’s family.

From what I’ve read from Rini, considering that the family (minus the father) “took her in as one of their own”, I do not believe that this situation is entirely unsalvagable. As I stated before, if they can get back to this point, this could make things easier, because to be blunt, in order to pull this off, the bf may not be able to do this alone - not a reflection on the bf, just on the stubbornness of the father. Either the mother and the siblings can band together with the bf to try to convince the father to get his head out of his rear end, or plan B would be to “write off” the father but have a good relationship with the mother and siblings. I think the key here is the mother. Maybe Rini can spend time on Easter helping make the homemade pierogi as a bonding experience with the mother and other women of the family (assuming she hasn’t done so already)?
 
Rini,

One other question: by any chance, are you and your bf in the Chicago area?

Also, please invite your bf to post here.
 
I don’t know the bf to judge whether or not he has a backbone. But I do have parents, and I’ve argued with them A. LOT. So I can say this about backbones:

When you have no backbone, you don’t argue at all with your parents. You just do what they say, or you sneak around behind their backs.

When you have SOME backbone, you argue with them and try to get them to see your point of view. The problem with this is that if you let it continue for too long, you give them the impression that they get a say in the matter that you are arguing about. After all, why argue, unless it is necessary to come to an agreement before you can take action?

When you are an adult with a fully formed backbone, you may have some discussion to help people understand, or to take in other points of view. But overall, this adult does not NEED to convince people of his point of view. Because he recognizes his decisions as his own domain, and doesn’t need his parents’ approval to make them. So after after a few polite discussions in which he considers any valid points they might be offering, the fully backboned man stops arguing with his parents and lets them think what they want while he does what he wants.

I have the impression that the bf is in the middle of the 3 choices. Perhaps t is just that he needs to step back and see that he has argued enough. Or perhaps it is because he is still not comfortable making big decisions independently of his parents. Id so, I wouldn’t fault him for that necessarily. But I would hesitate to give myself completely to that situation until I saw that an pattern of enmeshed decision making wasn’t going to hurt me as the unwelcome spouse, or the mother of the grandchildren…
 
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