Discipline in Church, HELP?

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dizzy_dave

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My wife and I are both 32, we have 4 children 7, 6, 15 months and 2 months. My 7 year old daughter is pretty good during mass, but my 6 year old son is terrible. We sit in the “Crying room”, I’ve heard that is a no-no but I’m scared to death to take them into the main church.
We’ve always sat in there since we’ve had kids, but if we can’t get them to behave in there how will we ever get them to be good in the main part of the church? How does one discipline during Mass anyhow? I e-mailed Dr. Ray twice but got no response, I know he’s busy, this is a big problem and we need advice ASAP - PLEASE!!!
The 6 year old son wants to talk the whole Mass, sit when we stand, stand when we sit, ect., play with the babies, run around, he’s like this a lot but at Mass it’s not the place for this, I know they are just kids but it’s to the point where my wife and I don’t get much out of Mass right now. Thanks.
 
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dizzy_dave:
My wife and I are both 32, we have 4 children 7, 6, 15 months and 2 months. My 7 year old daughter is pretty good during mass, but my 6 year old son is terrible. We sit in the “Crying room”, I’ve heard that is a no-no but I’m scared to death to take them into the main church.
We’ve always sat in there since we’ve had kids, but if we can’t get them to behave in there how will we ever get them to be good in the main part of the church? How does one discipline during Mass anyhow? I e-mailed Dr. Ray twice but got no response, I know he’s busy, this is a big problem and we need advice ASAP - PLEASE!!!
The 6 year old son wants to talk the whole Mass, sit when we stand, stand when we sit, ect., play with the babies, run around, he’s like this a lot but at Mass it’s not the place for this, I know they are just kids but it’s to the point where my wife and I don’t get much out of Mass right now. Thanks.
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We never had a crying room. Reading your post brought back the memory of my husband carrying our then 4 year old out of Mass, walking down the aisle, across the back and up to the exit door, to take him out for a “visit to the woodshed”. In your situation, I’d take small steps, sitting near the crying room, and when they act up, change your seats to inside the room. I also bought my kids books about Mass, i.e, My First Missal, First Communion, etc. that they brought to Mass to read. But, they were taken outside quite often, so don’t lose heart.

Is there a family Mass in your parish where they will “blend”? We did that too for a couple of years.

Children are a blessing, even when they are trying our patience. Good luck and God bless you and your family.
 
I’m not a parent but I am a pediatrician with a lot of friends who were turned off to the Church by inappropriate discipline inflicted upon them in the name of Catholicism. I’ve even personally seen a parent pull a child aside and whack his bottom during the silence of the elevation of the Host (I’m scarred; imagine what the kid must think)!

My advice is to try some positive consequences for good behavior or some less damaging negative consequences (no TV, have to go straight home instead of stopping out for meals, something creative that takes your child lovingly into account) for inappropriate behavior insofar as he is able to understand his behavior is inappropriate. It may also help to explain to the child why his behavior is disrespectful to God, to your family, to others in the church building - kids aren’t born knowing that kind of thing :)! Whatever you decide, I urge you to remember to respect your child, body and soul, and to appreciate that it’s probably a struggle for him to hold still for an hour he just doesn’t yet understand.
Kudos to you for all you do in raising great Catholic children!
 
I can relate although mine are a little older and tend to just give me trouble getting ready for Mass. I have a few ideas that came to mind:
  1. Some Churches have a Children’s Liturgy so the children go to the chapel to hav the Liturgy of the Word or even have nurseries during some Masses.
  2. You may want to have them in Church the whole time so you may want to gradually work away form the cry room.
  3. Try explaining what is going on a basic level and get a book with pictures that they can use to follow along with the Mass. Review it with him during the week.
  4. Maybe there is another family that your family can sit with that have children who are older and they can help you with the children. My daugher always looks for our friends with younger children, she will sit with them and the younger kids tend to want to pray like her and follow her movements.
  5. Also there is nothing wrong with the cry room, it is just like you said taht you have a hard time praying when you are trying to figure out a way to get your children to stop running talking louder than the priest.
  6. Although I am no Dr Ray I have heard him say that he tells his childre if they act up in public their punishments are double when they get home.
  7. It is ok to go to Mass just you and your spouse once in awhile, or even switch staying home so your spouse can go alone.
Good luck and God Bless!
 
DAWNCUROLE said:
7. It is ok to go to Mass just you and your spouse once in awhile, or even switch staying home so your spouse can go alone.
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This is along the lines of what I was thinking… What about divide and conquer? Could you split the kids up w/each of you during Mass perhaps?

My son had a pretty hard time when he was about four. I ended up putting him in Sunday school for a while and before the year was up, he was begging to come back to Mass. Of course he knew he had to behave and he has ever since. Knowing what I know now (major reversion), I’d probably not keep him out of Mass though.

Another thing I’ve heard is that sitting close to the front, where they can see more, helps. Could you possibly sit in the front, but off to the side for a quick exit?

I agree w/rewards and consquences. I think at 6, he is definitely old enough to have some responsibility for his behavior. How is he in other situations?

Good luck and God Bless,
Nicole
 
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gloria97000:
My advice is to try some positive consequences for good behavior or some less damaging negative consequences…
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I agree with trying to set up your child for success. Talk with him ahead of time about what the expectations are for behavior at mass (being quiet, respectful, obedient). Then tell him what his reward will be if he does this, and what the consequence will be if he does not.

At six, he should be able to understand and accept responsibility for his own behavior. Do you **talk about your faith at home ** with your children? Sometimes their understanding of what is happening will help with them to be more respectful during mass, especially during the consecration. Also, **practicing quiet family prayer ** at home may help, again explaining to your children ahead of time what the expectations are during this time. Start small with 5 or 10 minutes and work your way up from there. Quiet the room, dim the lights, light a candle and set the atmosphere.

I agree with having children sit closer to the front if at all possible. Give your son one or two things to watch for during Mass (when the priest reads from the gospel, when the Holy Holy is sung, when the Precious Body or Precious Blood is elevated), then give him a friendly nudge when this part of mass happens. Explain before mass what this part of the liturgy means. I remember sharing with my children that one of my favorite parts of the mass is the “Holy, Holy, Holy” because we join with the angels and saints in singing this unending song of praise to Our Lord. Let them picture our heavenly family joining with our early family!

I would encourage you to hang in there and continue to go Mass as a family. If you leave your children at home and “tag-team” with your spouse, how are your children going to learn? Besides, the commandment of keeping holy the Lord’s day is for them as well. Perhaps you or your spouse could attend a quiet daily mass during the week to have some more reflective time of praise.

Also**, offer up to Our Lord your frustrations**. We all go through phases with our children, and they do get better! He knows your heart in being there and your love for your children.

God bless!
 
Steve Wood recommends praciticing “mass behavior” at home. Either put mass on the t.v., or a tape recording, and teach your children how to sit quietly and listen, to the tape or the mass on t.v. Explain what behavior is expected, and when they misbehave, discipline accordingly (as you see fit). Possibly provide a children’s mass book, or something similar, but *do *practice “good mass behavior” at home. If your son doesn’t meet your expectations during mass, after having practiced, don’t stress. Simply tell him it is clear he needs more “practice” at home, then do it again.
 
I can relate. I remember with my daughter I would start out in Church, then have to go to the cry room, so I could cry!:crying:
I prayed and prayed about it. She is much better behaved in Church now. I think a lot of the change had to do with better discipline at home. We came to understand that her behaviour in Church was a reflection of her behaviour … period, (and our parenting). She was such a handful and I chalked a lot of her behaviours to her personality. But it seemed not to be the case. She’s not such a handful anymore. Through MUCH prayer I came to understand that we were not parenting her properly. I can’t say exactly what happened:hmmm: , (well I could but it would take too long) except that she’s different, we’re different, and she is much better behaved now. Ahhhhhhh … GRACE.:dancing:

Pray, and stick with it. The change is not overnight, but it will come.

During the difficult imes, sometimes my husband and I would pinch hit, for a breather. It’s horrible to go up to receive communion feeling like your face is going to explode from the stress. But Praise God, pinch me I must be dreaming, because we sit in Mass with our children peacefully.:love: Just like the families I used to look at and think “look how quietly thier kids are sitting.” Hang in there.
 
It won’t work for everyone, but some families handle the situation by taking children to Mass only when they’ve gotten old enough to understand the need for “grownup” behavior in church. Mom goes to early Mass, Dad goes to a later one. The youngsters still learn that Sunday is a special day and that going to Mass is important. Their catechesis can proceed at an appropriate pace, and they know that they’ll go, too, when they’re old enough. Granted, it takes more complex scheduling, but there are very real benefits.

Hope that helps.
 
Great advice from the list here–not much to add except
  1. do escape the cry room trap. I was stuck there for a long time with my now 3.5 yo and I think it encouraged her to misbehave.
  2. Don’t assume that your kids are annoying everyone within earshot. I just came from evening Mass and my 3.5 yo was quiet, but would not sit still. She danced and even tried to hop over the pew at one point. My 1 yo (aka 'Mr Screechy" ) missed his afternoon nap so he was riding the happiness/hysteria line the whole time, and DH was not with us. 3 people came up to me after Mass and complimented me on my well behaved children (?!) I had to wonder if these people actually attended this Mass with us. My point is that I thought my kid’s behavior was totally distracting and awful, but others in the church thought it was good enough to come up and compliment me about it. Do your best to help the kids meet your behavior expectations, but don’t get too blue if they can’t always do it. You’re to be commended for raising them Catholic. 👍
 
Your son might be too old for this, but we started this with my son when he was almost 3.

If he got disruptive to the point that it was interfering with other people’s Mass experience, I (not daddy, my son’s choice) would take him outside. No spanking, but he wasn’t allowed to run around or play. I’d sit with him on a bench outside and hold him on my lap and tell him we’d go back in if he’d behave and be quiet. It wasn’t fun to get out of Mass if he had to sit still anyway. Outside he could whine and cry all he wanted without bothering anyone. I only did it a few… well, maybe a dozen times, but it did the trick!

As for a six-year-old, what does he like to do? Watch videos? Play a game on the computer? If he has an activity that requires him to sit still for an extended period of time, you might say, “No videos today. If you can’t sit still and pay attention to Jesus for 1 hour, then you’re not going to sit still and pay attention to (fill in name of current favorite) for two hours!” My husband and I learned the “divide and conquer” thing works too, but we only use it for punishment. After all, skipping a favorite treat isn’t fair to the other kids who weren’t misbehaving. But one of us would take the unruly child home (even if it meant getting dropped off) while the other would take the rest out for ice cream or whatever (we sometimes found ourselves with a few nieces and nephews along for the ride!)

Sometimes the punishment takes more out of the parent than the child, but if you stick with it and STAY CALM (no yelling, no visible signs of frustration), you will be able to get through this. My brother-in-law used to spank when they got home, but a spanking lasts five minutes (including lecture). Restrictions last longer and make a bigger impact. By staying calm, you’re telling your child “I will not let your behavior become the focus of Mass”. And then offer it up and enrich your own Mass experience.
Good luck. If I think of anything else other family members tried, I’ll be back!

Blue “in the face!” Rose
 
Words that come to mind…And this too shall pass. I think there are some great ideas here. Our youngest is almost 4 and while we have managed to get her to be quiet she is still very wiggly. We just deal with it the best we can, we have no cry room at our church and when I have been to other churches and used them I find she is worse because of the other children. We also go separatey sometimes like this morning. when she was younger there were times when I was outside most of the Mass, (then we always went to different Masses unless it was impossible like Holy days and Holidays). You just need to find what works best for your family--------and most importantly offer it up–this is your state in life and God understands after all he blessed you this wonderful child.

chris
 
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bluerose:
Your son might be too old for this, but we started this with my son when he was almost 3. If he got disruptive to the point that it was interfering with other people’s Mass experience, I (not daddy, my son’s choice) would take him outside. No spanking, but he wasn’t allowed to run around or play.
Friends of ours did something similar w/ success. The kid left Mass w/ dad but stayed firmly in dad’s arms while in the back of the church. No getting down to run around. That got boring fast.

We laid out a few rules: Had to be quiet, had to say the Our Father (when old enough 🙂 and had to shake hands with those around you at the sign of peace. They didn’t have to sit still, but be relatively in one place in the pew! If they did those things, they got a slurpee after Mass. It worked for us.

—KCT
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Our 5 y/o has/had problems with sitting still and talking. I do let him take 1 book into Mass. He also knows that if he misbehaves when we get home he gets to sit on his bed for an hour or two (depends on how bad the behavior is). He can write all of his letters so we’ve also started sentence writing (a Dr. Ray suggestion) for other misbehaviors. I’ll write the sentence (I will behave during Mass.) and he has to copy it as many time as I say (use lined paper or make your own). This has been incredibly affective for other behaviors. Haven’t had to try it with Mass yet, but I think it would work for that too. We used the cry room for this child, but our other child hasn’t been in one. Guess whose behavior is better even though he is only three. Good luck. As a wise mother of grown children told me, you will get to sit in the congregation before you know it since they grow up so fast.
 
We have 4 children, too. All boys - ages 6, 5, 2 and 11 months. We do like to go to Church together as a family. However, all of these suggestions are good ones. We have split. Say, I will take the 5yo and it is a good experience with just the two of us. We sit very close (even on my lap), and I explain everything to him as it is happening. “Now, here we say what Father says, ‘Lord Have Mercy’” and I encourage him to participate.

Another thing is to incorporate the prayers that we hear in Church in our evening prayers. For a period, it seemed that we continually heard the chant of the Our Father. So, at night prayers, we started to chant the Our Father with the kids. Now, they know it and can participate.

I don’t know if there is a right or wrong answer. You just have to see what works for you. Some weeks are better than others. . .some kids are better some weeks than other weeks.

Good Luck. Hang in there. We’re in the same boat!
 
I’ve noticed that there’s a transition period with our kids. As babies, I don’t expect much from them. But by the time they are 4, 5, or 6ish I expect quiet behavior.

All my kids are different and I apply a whole arsenal of weapons. Some work better on some kids.
  1. Sit up close to the front.
  2. Chew 'em out after Mass
  3. Bring it to their attention that everyone is looking at them
  4. Flick 'em on the back of the head with my finger
  5. Separate them if they are feeding off each other’s bad behavior.
  6. Lavish praise on the one who was behaving well.
  7. Take 'em out back.
  8. For those beginning to read, I run my finger along the Scriptures as they are being read aloud. The child learns to read this way.
  9. Put my arm around them, maybe gently tickle their backs.
  10. Let younger ones sit on my lap.
 
Maybe your church has a room before the actual Church. Theres one in my church and the parents go there until their kids quite down and then come back in when during the approproate time.

Its like you open the doors to the church and your in a room before the actual sanctuary with an intercom to hear everything, and a glass wall to see whats going on and of course doors to enter and exit the church. (I guess it might be called a waiting room or anteroom or something, definitely not a crying room)
 
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dizzy_dave:
My wife and I are both 32, we have 4 children 7, 6, 15 months and 2 months. My 7 year old daughter is pretty good during mass, but my 6 year old son is terrible. We sit in the “Crying room”, I’ve heard that is a no-no but I’m scared to death to take them into the main church.
We’ve always sat in there since we’ve had kids, but if we can’t get them to behave in there how will we ever get them to be good in the main part of the church? How does one discipline during Mass anyhow? I e-mailed Dr. Ray twice but got no response, I know he’s busy, this is a big problem and we need advice ASAP - PLEASE!!!
The 6 year old son wants to talk the whole Mass, sit when we stand, stand when we sit, ect., play with the babies, run around, he’s like this a lot but at Mass it’s not the place for this, I know they are just kids but it’s to the point where my wife and I don’t get much out of Mass right now. Thanks.
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I know “cry rooms” are supposed to be politically incorrect, but if my church had had one when my daughter was small, I would have considered it a godsend! If I had a nickel for every mile I clocked walking around outside the Church (often in the cold) during Mass, I’d be rich!. By the time she was two, she was “peaceable” in Church, but those months between about 10 months and two years were ENDLESS. And of course, Dad never took a turn.
 
My son is only one so I don’t have any tried & true methods to offer, but…

I take my son to the cry room only if he needs to nurse and MIL is with us. (She is very anti-nursing :confused: and I try to not upset the apple-cart in Mass.) And when we are there, it seems like the parents have a VERY hard time because of the number of kids, some even come with whole bags of toys and just let the kids run around and play like at home. It seems the parents that bring their children in there, end up there all the time. And the ones that just go to the back of the church, or outside, actually get up less. But that is just my observings.

🙂 Lilder
 
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gloria97000:
I’m not a parent but I am a pediatrician with a lot of friends who were turned off to the Church by inappropriate discipline inflicted upon them in the name of Catholicism. I’ve even personally seen a parent pull a child aside and whack his bottom during the silence of the elevation of the Host (I’m scarred; imagine what the kid must think)!

My advice is to try some positive consequences for good behavior or some less damaging negative consequences (no TV, have to go straight home instead of stopping out for meals, something creative that takes your child lovingly into account) for inappropriate behavior insofar as he is able to understand his behavior is inappropriate. It may also help to explain to the child why his behavior is disrespectful to God, to your family, to others in the church building - kids aren’t born knowing that kind of thing :)! Whatever you decide, I urge you to remember to respect your child, body and soul, and to appreciate that it’s probably a struggle for him to hold still for an hour he just doesn’t yet understand.
Kudos to you for all you do in raising great Catholic children!
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your first sentence is telling… i guess my parents would have been thrown in jail… 😃
 
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