Discrepancy between spouses on giving

[WANTTRUTH]

Does anyone have suggestions about how to manage discrepancies about spending on giving versus vanity? I often feel strongly called to give but my spouse is against giving and would instead like to spend the money on vanity expenses ( spouse spent about $36,000 in 2014 on vanity expenses) and more on expensive stuff. Spouse gets VERY upset with my giving and has spent a lot of time with therapist dealing with the expense of a past mission that I worked on with a Priest. Spouse has “forbidden” me to give without approval (though I do anyway). I am concerned about differences between what Jesus would have us do with resources God entrusts to us versus what we actually do. Does anyone have suggestions? Anyone been on a retreat where this issue is lovingly dealt with? I know we can do a lot of good with our resources if we could reach agreement. I have spoken with Priests during confession, but have not gotten good direction. I pray and pray and pray, but maybe God can speak through this community. ACTS 4:32 is so attractive but hard to realize.

 

[pensmama87]

Do you have an agreement on other areas of the budget?

My husband and I each have (right now very small as we’re paying off debt) a set amount of money per month to spend however we please (nothing illegal or immoral), no questions asked.

It might also be worth considering what you consider “vanity expenses” (and how much 36K is of your income - you don’t need to disclose that to us, but for some people that’s a drop in the bucket, for others that’s all they make in a year). For some very frugal people, “vanity expenses” might include things that are necessities (things like clothing and shoes, haircuts). It’s possible that your husband is overspending on these (e.g. buying designer items only), but you might need to adjust your expectations, too. If you are living in family life, it can be giving to permit your husband to have a few things that he really enjoys, even if it means accepting that he would not choose the same things you would. If he is in a line of work where appearances matter (such as sales), it might not be prudent for him to drive a $2000 car, though that doesn’t mean he needs something tricked out, either.

I’m sure I won’t be the only one coming on here to recommend Dave Ramsey’s Financial Peace University, which is a finance course. His books are good too. Depending on the severity of your situation, marital counseling might be helpful to get you two to communicate better about your financial expectations.

 

[Xantippe]

Does anyone have suggestions about how to manage discrepancies about spending on giving versus vanity? I often feel strongly called to give but my spouse is against giving and would instead like to spend the money on vanity expenses ( spouse spent about $36,000 in 2014 on vanity expenses) and more on expensive stuff. Spouse gets VERY upset with my giving and has spent a lot of time with therapist dealing with the expense of a past mission that I worked on with a Priest. Spouse has “forbidden” me to give without approval (though I do anyway). I am concerned about differences between what Jesus would have us do with resources God entrusts to us versus what we actually do. Does anyone have suggestions? Anyone been on a retreat where this issue is lovingly dealt with? I know we can do a lot of good with our resources if we could reach agreement. I have spoken with Priests during confession, but have not gotten good direction. I pray and pray and pray, but maybe God can speak through this community. ACTS 4:32 is so attractive but hard to realize.

I don’t think either of you should be spending money without prior approval. (It’s also normal to have no-questions asked “blow money” or “fun money,” but those amounts ought to be roughly equal for both spouses.)

Start doing a monthly budget at the end or beginning of every month and plan your spending in advance. Here is one place to start, although you’ll find lots of other budgeting advice on the internet:

daveramsey.com/media/broadcast/mytmmo/pdf/guide-to-budgeting.pdf

You might also want to seriously consider doing a personal finance course together. In the US, Dave Ramsey’s Financial Peace University is very good–it’s 9 weeks with one meeting every week. It is possible to do the course online, but I suspect that your spouse (and you too) would be well served by having a peer group, as you work the program.

 

[Xantippe]

You can tell your spouse, “I’m going to stop doing spending without your approval, but I want you to stop doing spending without my approval.”

If you both put down your checkbooks and work together on monthly budgets, you’re going to be so much better off.

Once basic necessities and savings are taken care of, it’s fair for both spouses to get at least some of the things that they want. Income permitting, your spouse deserves to have at least some of the nice things that he or she wants, just as income permitting, it’s fair for you to be able to get at least some of the nice things that you want.

Have you been able to talk to your spouse about your charitable projects? Even if he or she has principled objections to charity, you may be able to persuade them that this or that project is a worthy one–for instance you might want to donate a dozen beloved childhood favorites to the parochial school library, or you’d like to fund an outing for the expectant mothers at a local maternity home, etc. If you start small, keep it concrete, and make it something where your spouse can see the benefits, you may be able to turn the ship on this one.

daveramsey.com/article/dont-have-a-clinched-fist/

 

[Xantippe]

Not to monopolize the thread, but I think it might be helpful to your spouse (and to you, too) to think about the times in your past that you were struggling or in trouble, and what could have helped you at the time, and to start thinking about ways to help people in a similar situation.

My husband would like to increase our level of giving above the current percentage eventually (maybe once the kids are all out of college), and one thing that’s come to mind is that we could eventually fund a scholarship at our kids’ private school. And hey, why think small? Maybe we could fund two.

 

[Xantippe]

Another possible “gateway” drug (so to speak), is to suggest to your spouse that the two of you think harder about who in your circle is in need of financial help or TLC.

You probably know a young couple that has just had a baby, a cousin whose toddler is waiting for a major organ transplant, a couple whose school age child has just gotten an autism spectrum diagnosis and is starting an expensive therapy program, an aunt whose husband is slipping into dementia, etc, etc.

When you look around, there are so many needs. It can be overwhelming, but if you both look around and prioritize, there is the potential for doing so much good.

 

[WANTTRUTH]

Thanks to all for the helpful suggestions. The Dave Ramsey course seems great. I had not heard of that before. Thanks. I am concerned that the basic problem is our world view. I once heard an explanation that the “yoke” Jesus refers to in Mathew 11:30 is his world view. It would be really easy to budget if we both passionately embraced Jesus’s world view. My spouse is working hard on issues of self-esteem with the therapist. The therapist’s spouse is a cosmetic dentist, and that is where $25k went to for smile enhancement. So, any suggestions (retreat recommendations?) on how to come closer to a joint embrace of Jesus’s world view? FYI, we could easily live on 25% of our income, and we both make about the same proportion of the joint income.

 

[Xantippe]

Thanks to all for the helpful suggestions. The Dave Ramsey course seems great. I had not heard of that before. Thanks. I am concerned that the basic problem is our world view. I once heard an explanation that the “yoke” Jesus refers to in Mathew 11:30 is his world view. It would be really easy to budget if we both passionately embraced Jesus’s world view. My spouse is working hard on issues of self-esteem with the therapist. The therapist’s spouse is a cosmetic dentist, and that is where $25k went to for smile enhancement.

**Wow, that sounds extraordinarily unethical of the therapist.

I’d be tempted to report the therapist to their licensing board.

What a lousy therapist.
**

So, any suggestions (retreat recommendations?) on how to come closer to a joint embrace of Jesus’s world view? FYI, we could easily live on 25% of our income, and we both make about the same proportion of the joint income.

Start with doing a personal finance course together.

It sounds like you guys haven’t quite figured out what to do with all this money you’re making. Just for you personally, I’d suggest reading Dave Ramsey’s “The Legacy Journey.” He goes too far in the “Yay, capitalism!” direction in spots, but he does have a very strong stewardship message that could take a lot of the weight off your mind.

I think I’d play very strongly to your spouse’s sense of fairness. If you have the money to cover all of it, your spouse can spend $25k on smile improvements, you are certainly allowed to spend money on stuff you like, which happens to be [fill in the blank]. Practice saying things like, “It makes you happy to have a nice smile, and it makes me happy to pay for fistula repairs for women in Africa and life saving c-sections in India. We both get to do stuff with our money that makes us happy, otherwise what’s the point of having it?” Finances permitting, you both get to have nice things.

Here’s an Indian Protestant mission doctor’s blog, where he talks about the struggles of providing basic medical care in rural India:

jeevankuruvilla.blogspot.com/

There’s lots of inspiration in his archives, although you may want to quickly page down through some of the more graphic photos.

And let’s not forget, there are tax write offs for charitable donations. Make sure to remind your spouse of that.

Good luck!