Discussion with Pro-Abortion People

[Alberich]

Here’s where I am right now. I’ve had an ongoing “discussion” with several liberal, atheist, pro-abortion advocates on other fora lately. Being the nice guy that I am, I’ve tried to approach it from a logical standpoint, thereby leaving out the “God says it’s wrong” argument, because I know it will turn them off.

Of course, the conversations quickly degenerate anyway, even to the point where they are now espousing the opinion that sex is not for procreation. (It’s amusing how even a non-religious discussion of abortion quickly shows the lunacy of the pro-abortion side.)

Problem is this–I still feel that it isn’t quite right to talk with them the way I am. In these discussions, it is always taken for granted that the moral system that we proceed from is that of the pro-abortion side–that there is a vague concept of “rights” which is amorphous, and changes to support whatever they believe in at the moment. However, try to steer it to where the conversation is based on the Christian (Catholic-specifically) morality, and the conversation up and dies. They will have no part of it.

And this is what feels wrong. I want to approach it from the Catholic viewpoint. I want to go out and make disciples of all nations. But what good does it do to try when just trying is the switch that makes the other side immediately refuse to listen???

Anybody else have any experience with this, or thoughts that might be helpful to me?

Pax,
Alberich

 

[chicago]

Well, one of the things which I sometimes try to appeal to is people’s personal sensibilities. It is reasonable for someone to have compassion upon another who they know. Or to be worried about oneself. But, since we never really personally relate to or get to know a fetus, the matter becomes generic and turns towards personal liberties or “rights”. Yet, ask someone who is of an age where they could have been legally aborted whether they think it would have been just fine had their mother not brought them to birth. Go ahead and even describe the proceedures by which they might have been ridden of from a medical textbook on abortion proceedure. See if you can appeal to their sensibility for self defense.

Another manner of dealing with such things is by showing particular sympathy for women who may find themselves in the difficult cirucmstances which lead them to choosing abortion. Often, when we get into these discussions, people think that we are somehow just pitting the child and the mother against each other. But if we can hekp them to understand that we mean first and foremost to show concern and offer genuine assistance, sympathy, and compassion as well as positive options and support for moms who are drawn towards or become abortive, then perhaps they will appreciate that we are not their enemies, but friends.

Finally, it may be best to try to listen and respond to their own concerns first and foremost (posibly needling them to think about and articulate them further - thereby asking them to challenge their own presuppositions on their own terms). When someone gets to hear herself talk and get taken seriously, they might be more open to dialogue than if they merely feel threatened by a challenge to their way of thinking from outside.

 

[stevendmo]

I like Chicago’s suggestions.

My two cents is this: Many of the people you’re conversing with probably have kids whom they love. In most cases, they probably wanted those kids while they (or their spouses/partners) were pregnant. Ask them about their kids. Ask them what they did to prepare for their children’s arrival. Ask (as much as possible) for some details.

The point of all this? It may be tempting for some folks to think of the unborn child who is at the center of The Abortion Debate as an abstract fetus (tissue, foreign object, etc.). But when you ask them about the plans they made for their own children, and ask them (not in a zinger, gotcha sort of way!) about whether they told friends about the baby they were expecting or the “fetus” they were expecting, you might be able to gently nudge them toward a long-term reconsideration of the (likely inconsistent) way they think about exactly who it is that’s in the womb: not just tissue, but a human child. (Put another way: Is it only a baby when someone wants the baby to be born? Don’t their children have value and basic human rights regardless of how anybody else feels about them?)

No way would this approach result in an overnight change of views, I’m sure, and some might accuse you of playing with semantics. But it’s not just semantics; language and memory help to shape the way we think and act. As for your friends, when someone is firmly entrenched in their thinking, sometimes planting a good seed is the best one can hope for. It sounds like you’re trying hard to engage their minds and hearts, not just preach at them, which probably wouldn’t work anyway. You’re to be commended for the effort.

Steve

 

[chicago]

Steve’s suggstion is good, However, realize that (conversely) it is quite possible that some of the people with whom you are conversing have had abortions or know someone close to them who has. So their defensiveness could well be a matter of self justification and emotional preservation.

 

[Eileen_T]

We addressed this problem by building a website (nearly 1000 pages) on suicide, abortion & euthanasia which can be used with people who would reject arguments based on morality or sanctity of life.

A pro-life Catholic doctor I know who refuses to prescribe birth control pills, told me he prints out articles to hand to colleagues and patients.

www.life.org.nz I recommend using the Sitemap if you are looking for something in particular, or the Search key. The site is still under construction, especially the Bioethics section.

 

[john_ennis]

It would not be unfair stereotyping to say that the pro-abort types, being more liberal, tend to be more emotion-driven.

Sometimes it may be helpful to look beyond logic, and say things a certain way. I nearly always refer to the baby as “she”, for example, because it can be a little jarring, reminding us of the baby’s personhood more than the more typical “he” or “he/she.”
Qualifying the discussion by observing, “Of course, it’s easy for us to talk–we’re safely out of the womb,” and “We were fetuses once–let’s not forget that,” can plant an emotional seed.
I also think showing true compassion for the mother can help my point fall on more accepting ears: “I wish those poor women had a legal guarantee of grief counseling; I wish the abortion providers were legally bound to offer utlrasounds, and info on the abortion-sterility and abortion-cancer linkage, so the mother could make a more informed choice.”

Peace.
John

 

[chicago]

Often supporters of abortion rights will note how difficult the decision of having an abortion is for a woman. With this, we ought to wholeheartedly agree and find comon ground that could, perhaps, be built upon in order to together find positive options for women in these circumstances so that they will not have to feel so overwhelmed; or minimally, will find support and positive options such that they might not have to feel pressured into abortion.