Dissecting free will

[Robert_Sock]

I will begin by using the following as an example of what I’m talking about:

When my master and teacher [R. Schneur Zalman of Liadi] was in a state of d’veikut (lit. “attachment,” a trance-like state of ecstatic cleaving to G-d) he would cry out: “I want nothing at all! I don’t want Your ‘garden of eden,’ I don’t want Your ‘world to come’… I want nothing but You alone.”
– Related by Rabbi Schneur Zalman’s grandson, Rabbi Menachem Mendel of Lubavitch

Did R. Schneur Zalman really have any choice in loving God? Keep in mind that God chooses us, and not the other way around. Could he possibly have said “no” to his devoutness after experiencing such grace and favor with God?

Similarly, could Eve have said “no” to the Serpent in believing wholeheartedly that she would become like God? Would she have eaten the forbidden fruit if she was fully aware of the harsh consequences?

Do any of us have true free will when we sin? Or does God not already know our sinful actions.

As I write this I feel great remorse for my past sins, but somehow I do not feel that I had a choice back in my youth. God knew I would sin if placed in a particular environment, and so it happened. Again, I feel very remorseful now when I look back on things, but I swear I did not have free will when I sinned. More to the point, I was an Atheist, and as such, I could not have fully understood the consequences of my sins.

I read Julian of Norwich a while back and I believe she had similar believes. She did not come out and say that everyone would be saved by being found not guilty, but she seemed to convey this from her revelations.

It’s only through God’s grace that we can understand and avoid sin. Without this grace, we are doomed to sin.

I do not want to say that we do not have free will, but that it’s so very limited to a select few situations. Looking back on my sinful life, I’m baffled at how naive I was. Of course people will sin if placed in specific situations, under an evil state of mind and being. I believe everyone will fully repent of their sins once Truth is revealed to them…universal salvation.

Bottom line, I’m so sorry that I have ever sinned, and I’m gladdened that somebody like Saint Peter is holding the keys to Heaven. Let no one become proud of their** God given virtue!
**
LOVE!

 

[Fr_of_Jazz]

. . . .
Similarly, could Eve have said “no” to the Serpent in believing wholeheartedly that she would become like God? Would she have eaten the forbidden fruit if she was fully aware of the harsh consequences?

Do any of us have true free will when we sin? Or does God not already know our sinful actions.

. . . .
It’s only through God’s grace that we can understand and avoid sin. Without this grace, we are doomed to sin.

I do not want to say that we do not have free will, but that it’s so very limited to a select few situations. Looking back on my sinful life, I’m baffled at how naive I was. Of course people will sin if placed in specific situations, under an evil state of mind and being. I believe everyone will fully repent of their sins once Truth is revealed to them…universal salvation.

I think it is important to distinguish between free will considered as part of human nature discernable by reflection on our experience [anthropological free will] and the “freedom of the children of God.” (Rm 8:21)

The Gospel informs and empowers us live in the latter freedom. And enjoying that freedom, known only through revelation and accomplished only through grace, we can see the lack of that freedom in those (including ourselves) not living as sons and daughters of God.

Nevertheless the latter freedom does not negate the existence of the former freedom. As chapter 1 of the Decree on Justification from the Council of Trent reminds us free will [anthropological free will] was weaken by original sin but not extinguished.

 

[Robert_Sock]

I think it is important to distinguish between free will considered as part of human nature discernable by reflection on our experience [anthropological free will] and the “freedom of the children of God.” (Rm 8:21)

The Gospel informs and empowers us live in the latter freedom. And enjoying that freedom, known only through revelation and accomplished only through grace, we can see the lack of that freedom in those (including ourselves) not living as sons and daughters of God.

Nevertheless the latter freedom does not negate the existence of the former freedom. As chapter 1 of the Decree on Justification from the Council of Trent reminds us free will [anthropological free will] was weaken by original sin but not extinguished.

I would like to add that when I was an Atheist, I strongly feel that I was a child of Satan, and the evil spells he had be under undermined my free will. Under the spell of Satan, a person will sin, but being under the grace of God can overcome this evil. I now feel the freedom of being a child of God, and I feel greatly blessed with God’s grace (of which without I would be back with Satan). Yes, being under God’s wings is freedom, and some of us have to fight for it with all our spiritual strength. It’s a war. Fight or drown in misery! By engaging in a spiritual fight, that includes complete self-annihilation, extinguishment of worldly desires and the abandonment of my own will, I may enter the land flowing with milk and honey!

LOVE!

 

[bisco1]

i’m married, so i have no idea what you’re talking about.

 

[Leo2014]

Do any of us have true free will when we sin? Or does God not already know our sinful actions.

I have to the subscribe to the idea that we do have free will and part of that is the choice to sin. Because, if God is controlling the destination of everything than he is also causing evil. He is directing when and who falls into sin. I have to believe that sin is our ultimate choice to not accept God’s will.

If sin is predestine within each of us, than it opens itself to too many questions. Example; why did he have to send his only son? Therefore the sins of the world were already a pre-manifestation and that would down play the significance of the arrival of a Savior.

I have to believe that we willfully moved in the direction of sin without the aid of God and it was only in His mercy that he re-directed our path in the direction of salvation while still allowing us the choice to accept it.