Dissenting "Catholic" education/preaching and the "gates of Hell"

[SavedByGod]

Hi all,

My name is Christopher. I have been reading, enjoying, and learning from the posts here for some time. I am a Reformed Protestant who is considering coming back to the Catholic Church. I converted to Catholicism (from agnosticism) in 1996, but for various reasons (some of them having to do with inaccurate and deficient teaching in my parish), I ultimately left God altogether and did not return to Him or to any church for many years-- dark, lost, deep-in-sin years.

When I did return to Christianity, it was not Catholicism but Reformed Protestantism, as I had been influenced by preaching and teaching which claimed that the Catholic Church taught “salvation by works.” I am currently in a Reformed church which considers Catholicism to teach just such a false, heretical gospel. Until recently, I would have agreed. (I now think think that the deficiencies of my original spiritual formation-- not-so-great RCIA, dismaying personal talks with my priest-- had at least something to do with my misconceptions about the Church and her teachings).

However, over the last few months, as a Reformed Protestant, I have been studying the early Church Fathers-- and I have been very, very humbled. Their writings seem so “Catholic” in so many ways! As I read them, I go back to Scripture and see confirmations of Catholic teaching that I never previously saw. I am coming to the conviction that, perhaps, the Catholic Church is the true Church, founded by Christ, and that the Bible did come from the Church. I’m not completely convinced yet, but I am in a very different place, in terms of how I see Catholicism, than I was even six months ago.

I do have certain questions, though, with which I am still wrestling. For the sake of space (and because I’ve already written so much here!), for now, I’ll just ask one of them. I know that the Church claims that Christ founded her, with Peter as the first Pope, and that the gates of Hell will never prevail against her. However, how do we think about this claim, in light of the fact that generations of Catholics have been taught inaccurately about essential teachings of the Catholic Faith-- in their very parishes and Catholic schools? The Catholic author, Peter Kreeft, claims that in decades of teaching Catholic students, he has asked hundreds of them if they know how a person gets to Heaven. Usually, he says, their answers to this question have not even included Jesus (!!!). How is it that Christ has allowed so many priests and nuns in His true Church to lead generations of Catholics into embracing heresy-- to the point that they don’t even know how to get to Heaven? How does this not constitute the gates of Hell prevailing against the Church?

Please know that my question is sincere. If the Catholic Church is the true Church, founded by Christ, I do want to return to her. I’m just honestly struggling with this question (and a few others that I may ask at another time).

 

[Todd_Easton]

If you read Acts 15 you will see that many early Christians, perhaps including James, the brother of the Lord and bishop of Jerusalem, erroneously taught that Gentile converts needed to be circumcised and this caused great dissension in the Church. The matter was debated by the Apostles and church elders (bishops) and their conciliar decision against requiring circumcision, supported by Peter, was also considered the decision of the Holy Spirit.

From this incident you can see that individual Christians, even individual bishops, are not necessarily protected from teaching erroneous doctrines. However, the Church is prevented from falling entirely into doctrinal error by the Holy Spirit through the Magisterium, the body of bishops, who collectively enjoy the charism of infallibility, when they, with Peter’s successor, the bishop of Rome (the pope), proclaim a doctrine of faith or morals by a definitive act, above all in an Ecumenical Council. Also, the bishop of Rome (the pope), as Peter’s successor and head of the body of bishops, personally enjoys the charism of infallibility when he proclaims a doctrine of faith or morals by a definitive act.

Also see Matthew 16:19 and Luke 22:31-32 (on Peter’s personal infallibility); Matthew 18:17 (on the Apostles’ collective infallibility); Ephesians 4:11-14 and Hebrews 13:17 (on God’s gift of church leaders to prevent Christians from falling into doctrinal error).

 

[DOShea]

When you examine a case such as you’ve cited, a student of Peter Kreeft in one of the most liberal universities in America, somewhere in the examination you have to ask how important to the student is their salvation if they cannot even give a basic picture of it? If those same students took Kreeft’s philosophy class and at the end of it could not tell you what philosophy is, I’d wager they would realize something was deficient in the process. Knowing that, they would either think philosophy unimportant and ignore the problem, or think philosophy is important and seek other ways to learn what they needed to know.

How then does this not apply to Catholics and their catechisis? If a parish has a weak education program and priests who homilize on everything but the gospel and the faith behind it, the person faces the same choices. Your relationship with God is either important to you or it isn’t. Who Peter Kreeft has encountered are young people who have decided it isn’t important, and I’m not sure why he believes this is something new or unique to his classroom.

 

[CB_Catholic]

Hi all,

My name is Christopher. I have been reading, enjoying, and learning from the posts here for some time. I am a Reformed Protestant who is considering coming back to the Catholic Church. I converted to Catholicism (from agnosticism) in 1996, but for various reasons (some of them having to do with inaccurate and deficient teaching in my parish), I ultimately left God altogether and did not return to Him or to any church for many years-- dark, lost, deep-in-sin years.

When I did return to Christianity, it was not Catholicism but Reformed Protestantism, as I had been influenced by preaching and teaching which claimed that the Catholic Church taught “salvation by works.” I am currently in a Reformed church which considers Catholicism to teach just such a false, heretical gospel. Until recently, I would have agreed. (I now think think that the deficiencies of my original spiritual formation-- not-so-great RCIA, dismaying personal talks with my priest-- had at least something to do with my misconceptions about the Church and her teachings).

However, over the last few months, as a Reformed Protestant, I have been studying the early Church Fathers-- and I have been very, very humbled. Their writings seem so “Catholic” in so many ways! As I read them, I go back to Scripture and see confirmations of Catholic teaching that I never previously saw. I am coming to the conviction that, perhaps, the Catholic Church is the true Church, founded by Christ, and that the Bible did come from the Church. I’m not completely convinced yet, but I am in a very different place, in terms of how I see Catholicism, than I was even six months ago.

I do have certain questions, though, with which I am still wrestling. For the sake of space (and because I’ve already written so much here!), for now, I’ll just ask one of them. I know that the Church claims that Christ founded her, with Peter as the first Pope, and that the gates of Hell will never prevail against her. However, how do we think about this claim, in light of the fact that generations of Catholics have been taught inaccurately about essential teachings of the Catholic Faith-- in their very parishes and Catholic schools? The Catholic author, Peter Kreeft, claims that in decades of teaching Catholic students, he has asked hundreds of them if they know how a person gets to Heaven. Usually, he says, their answers to this question have not even included Jesus (!!!). How is it that Christ has allowed so many priests and nuns in His true Church to lead generations of Catholics into embracing heresy-- to the point that they don’t even know how to get to Heaven? How does this not constitute the gates of Hell prevailing against the Church?

Please know that my question is sincere. If the Catholic Church is the true Church, founded by Christ, I do want to return to her. I’m just honestly struggling with this question (and a few others that I may ask at another time).

I think that your perspective is too narrow. The Catholic Church is 2000 years old, and if you look at it from the historical viewpoint, you will see that from the very beginning there were those who believed and taught false doctrine, and those who would listen to them. In many of his epistles St. Paul addresses them. Did the gates of hell prevail against the early infant Church? No. Heresy has been with the Church from the beginning, that is why Councils were called, and also what many of the Fathers addressed. People did not know the faith, having been led astray. But did the gates of Hell prevail? No. The Church continued to grow and spread and thrive. Throughout history there have been periods when things got bad, people did not know and practice the faith, heresy arose, and every time God has raised up leaders to correct and reform and bring people back to the Truth and to God. The Holy Spirit is in charge here, and the gates of Hell has never prevailed.

Today is no different. It is true that many Catholics do not know their faith, a result of poor catechesis and general indifference to the things of God in the past couple of generations. This is true of society as a whole. But in the Catholic Church we are slowly coming out of that. God once again is raising up leaders to steer us back on course. Our current Pope and the preceding one, John Paul II are prime examples of that. There is a slow but steady return to traditional Catholic teaching and practices, and also a very well educated laity from whom have come outstanding apologists and theologians. Priests coming out of seminaries today are much more prone to teach and practice traditional Catholic values, and the traditionalist seminaries are thriving. I can see this in my own parish, where once we were considered rather “liberal”, there is now a movement toward re-establishing traditional Catholic practices and people are wanting catechesis.

Plus, the Catholic Church is a universal Church, and is vigorously growing in other parts of the world, Africa being a prime example, and is reestablishing itself in the Eastern European countries. The gates of hell are not prevailing there. You cannot limit your scope to just what you see in Western countries. That is not the whole story.

I, for one, am optimistic about the future of the Church. I think we are moving in the right direction, and I see signs of it everywhere. And this is not the worst period in Church history. There have been far worse times. But God has always come through to reform it.
Besides, Jesus Himself said the gates of hell will not prevail against the Church. Are we going to doubt Christ Himself? No way. He has not failed us in the past, and He will not fail us now or in the future.

 

[eichenb2]

If you read Acts 15 you will see that many early Christians, perhaps including James, the brother of the Lord and bishop of Jerusalem, erroneously taught that Gentile converts needed to be circumcised and this caused great dissension in the Church. The matter was debated by the Apostles and church elders (bishops) and their conciliar decision against requiring circumcision, supported by Peter, was also considered the decision of the Holy Spirit.

From this incident you can see that individual Christians, even individual bishops, are not necessarily protected from teaching erroneous doctrines. However, the Church is prevented from falling entirely into doctrinal error by the Holy Spirit through the Magisterium, the body of bishops, who collectively enjoy the charism of infallibility, when they, with Peter’s successor, the bishop of Rome (the pope), proclaim a doctrine of faith or morals by a definitive act, above all in an Ecumenical Council. Also, the bishop of Rome (the pope), as Peter’s successor and head of the body of bishops, personally enjoys the charism of infallibility when he proclaims a doctrine of faith or morals by a definitive act.

Also see Matthew 16:19 and Luke 22:31-32 (on Peter’s personal infallibility); Matthew 18:17 (on the Apostles’ collective infallibility); Ephesians 4:11-14 and Hebrews 13:17 (on God’s gift of church leaders to prevent Christians from falling into doctrinal error).

Likewise, the Society of St. Pius X may save the Church from the gates of hell.

 

[SavedByGod]

Thanks very much to all for your helpful responses (and if anyone else wants to respond, please do so!).

Todd, I see your points entirely and agree. Throughout history, there have always been heresies, and the Church has had to act to condemn them and to clarify right teaching. I think the main thing that troubles me is that modern-day (i.e., since the 1960s) heretical teaching and preaching in parishes and Catholic schools has often been allowed to seemingly go “un-checked,” to the point that there are so many cradle Catholics who do not know the very basics of the Faith. However, as a former Catholic who is, quite likely, “on the way back,” I do see signs of hope, here and elsewhere-- and after spending years as a Protestant, I definitely see the need for a definitive, unified teaching authority for Christians to look to and follow.

DOShea, I very well could be wrong, but I think that rather than making a comment on his Catholic students’ seriousness about their faith (or lack thereof), Peter Kreeft was trying to say that a great many of them had not even been taught the Gospel, from a very young age, in their Catholic schools and/or parishes, and that this problem continued, largely, until they came to his classes at Boston College. I remember reading the book from which this quote came (Fundamentals of the Faith), and Kreeft seemed, at least partially, to be grieving about the failure of many Catholic leaders to accurately teach the Faith. If a young adult Catholic has never even heard the truths of the Catholic Faith accurately, how is he/she to know that he/she needs to take that Faith seriously? This seems to be the situation of so many “fallen-away Catholics”-- because of the huge deficiencies of their original spiritual formation, they don’t even know that they need to know certain things.

Catholic CB, you are certainly right that my perspective is too narrow (at least at times). I realize that as an American, living in the U.S.A., I do only see certain aspects of what God is doing through the Church (not to mention the fact that I have not yet even returned to the Church… but that is part of what I am hoping to accomplish here, by seeking answers to my questions). I try to take the “long view,” historically speaking, by looking at how the Church has dealth with heresy in the past, but it is just frustrating to see so many Catholics being taught wrongly by priests and nuns, with seemingly little being done by the Pope and Magisterium (post-Vatican II) to deal with it.

Yes, the Pope still teaches the Truth, but when heresy is taught and goes largely uncorrected, on a local level (Catholic schools and parishes), for generations, it means two very tragic things-- 1. Young Catholics become adults who buy into that heresy, and 2. Because of No. 1, those adults will quite possibly go to Hell. To my mind, this predicament would seem to call for very swift action, by the Pope and Magisterium, in “cleaning out” schools and parishes of heretical teachers… but maybe I just don’t realize how complex and multi-layered the situation is, in terms of correcting it.

 

[DOShea]

DOShea, I very well could be wrong, but I think that rather than making a comment on his Catholic students’ seriousness about their faith (or lack thereof), Peter Kreeft was trying to say that a great many of them had not even been taught the Gospel, from a very young age, in their Catholic schools and/or parishes, and that this problem continued, largely, until they came to his classes at Boston College. I remember reading the book from which this quote came (Fundamentals of the Faith), and Kreeft seemed, at least partially, to be grieving about the failure of many Catholic leaders to accurately teach the Faith. If a young adult Catholic has never even heard the truths of the Catholic Faith accurately, how is he/she to know that he/she needs to take that Faith seriously? This seems to be the situation of so many “fallen-away Catholics”-- because of the huge deficiencies of their original spiritual formation, they don’t even know that they need to know certain things.

I don’t disagree with Dr. Kreeft’s assessment of the situation. I think most everyone who dates back to 25 cents-a-gallon gasoline sees some deficiency in either the method or the cathechesis itself over a couple of decades or so. What I was driving at is more to the end, as, in fact, Kreeft himself often does. He asks the question, “So what?” or “What does that mean?”

I think it means this. We have to decide what is the appropriate response to the situation. Seems to me we either have to recognize the people themselves have some of the onus, or else the rest of us have all of it. If we have it all, what’s the plan to rescue those who didn’t get what they needed? If we have some and they have some, what is their role?

By way of analogy, or better analogy than my first attempt, let’s say I was a philosophy student but my professor didn’t teach it well. I graduate with a degree in philosophy, but a philosopher I’m not - I don’t even know that I don’t know much about it. What happens to me from that point IF I want to be a philosopher and a good one? Wouldn’t it seem reasonable that I’m going to write a paper or a book or enter into a discussion in philosophy and have my head handed to me by those who do know what they’re talking about? I’m saying there is a feedback that will come, a point where the person will be awakened to the fact that they lack what they “thought” they had.

As it applies to their faith, it could be as simple as logging onto this site and seeing things one never heard about before. It could be going to Mass in a church where there is no fiddling with the liturgy or rounding off the sharper edges of God’s message. It could come in any of a thousand different ways, but it will come. It is from that point, the point of “I didn’t know THAT!” where I think the person definitely has the ball in their own court.

At that point and beyond, I think the measure of how vigorously they pursue some real answers is directly proportional to how much their faith means to them. I really think there is little anyone can do for them besides helping them get straight answers at that point.

But before that, it seems we would be back to the onus on us. So what is the appropriate course to take for people in that situation?

 

[SavedByGod]

DOShea, I hear what you are saying, but if a Catholic has been taught, from childhood to young adulthood (i.e. graduation from Cathlic school), that the Gospel is “be nice to others” and that the Eucharist is merely “holy bread,” how is that Catholic even to understand that he/she has been terribly misled?

I understand what you mean about taking responsibility for one’s faith and learning the truth about what the Faith actually teaches, but if Church leaders have told me, for my entire life, that I’m basically a fairly good person anyway, and that all I need to do is perhaps try a little harder, then I probably won’t see the need to look into things any deeper, to see what the Church really teaches…

 

[twb1621]

Hi all,

My name is Christopher… How is it that Christ has allowed so many priests and nuns in His true Church to lead generations of Catholics into embracing heresy-- to the point that they don’t even know how to get to Heaven? How does this not constitute the gates of Hell prevailing against the Church?

Please know that my question is sincere. If the Catholic Church is the true Church, founded by Christ, I do want to return to her. I’m just honestly struggling with this question (and a few others that I may ask at another time).

maybe this will help you; Recorded history proves the origin and lineage of the Catholic Church from the establishment laid by Jesus through His apostles and their successors. The Apostles continued the growth and establishment of the Church through the assignment of their successors and the formation of the hierarchy. These are the very same Faithful followers who came to be know as “Christians” in Antioch and a short time later recognized as the “universal” or “Catholic Church”. Through the Gospel Jesus proclaims the Church He founded will never fall but He also clearly warned there would be corrupt men (wolves) who would violate her and deceive others. That those corrupt would cause many to follow the wrong path by distorting His word not only from outside His Church but from within at times. All of these prophecies we have seen including the corruption outside as well as those who deceived with His word from within the Church such as Martin Luther. There are many verses in Gospel that point all these violations against His Church out. It is also proclaimed that the Church WILL be of one God and One Faith and nowhere in scripture does it say derivatives with there own beliefs will be acceptable. It is specific to only one Faith and one God. The following verses are some of those attesting to these prophecies and proclamations;

Latin Vulgate (The first Holy Bible compiled, translated and canonized by the Catholic Church)

Jesus established and protects His Church;

**Mat. Ch16; 15-19 “But who do you say that I am?” Simon Peter said in reply, “You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.” Jesus answered, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah. For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my heavenly Father. And so I say to you, you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of the netherworld shall not prevail against it. I will give you the keys to the kingdom of heaven. Whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.” **

Jesus promises to be with His Church always;

Matthew CH28; 19*** Going therefore, teach ye all nations; baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. 20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and behold I am with you all days, even to the consummation of the world. ***

The Holy Spirit guides the Church into all truth;

John CH16; 12*** I have yet many things to say to you: but you cannot bear them now. 13 But when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will teach you all truth. For he shall not speak of himself; but what things soever he shall hear, he shall speak; and the things that are to come, he shall shew you. 14 He shall glorify me; because he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it to you. 15 All things whatsoever the Father hath, are mine. Therefore I said, that he shall receive of mine, and shew it to you. ***

The Church is the pillar and foundation of truth;

1 Timothy CH3; 13*** For they that have ministered well, shall purchase to themselves a good degree, and much confidence in the faith which is in Christ Jesus. 14 These things I write to thee, hoping that I shall come to thee shortly. 15 But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth*. **

He who rejects the Church rejects Christ;

Luke CH10; 16*** He that heareth you, heareth me; and he that despiseth you, despiseth me; and he that despiseth me, despiseth him that sent me. ***

---

continued next post…

 

[twb1621]

continued from previous post;

Jesus prayed that we would be one;

**John CH17; 18 As thou hast sent me into the world, I also have sent them into the world. 19 And for them do I sanctify myself, that they also may be sanctified in truth. 20 And not for them only do I pray, but for them also who through their word shall believe in me; 21 That they all may be one, as thou, Father, in me, and I in thee; that they also may be one in us; that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. **

There must be no divisions among us;

1 Corinthians CH1; 6*** As the testimony of Christ was confirmed in you, 7 So that nothing is wanting to you in any grace, waiting for the manifestation of our Lord Jesus Christ. 8 Who also will confirm you unto the end without crime, in the day of the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 God is faithful: by whom you are called unto the fellowship of his Son Jesus Christ our Lord. 10 Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you all speak the same thing, and that there be no schisms among you; but that you be perfect in the same mind, and in the same judgment. ***

Jesus warns Simon Peter of the intent of satan to attack and separate the faithful within His Church;

Luke CH22; 31 “And the Lord said: Simon, Simon, behold Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you all as wheat: 32 But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and thou, being once converted, confirm thy brethren.”

Jesus speaks of the unification through His Church of all those who will accept His word and come together in Him;

“…I am the good shepherd, and I know mine and mine know me, just as the Father knows me and I know the Father; and I will lay down my life for the sheep. I have other sheep that do not belong to this fold. These also I must lead, and they will hear my voice, and there will be one flock, one shepherd.” (Jn 10:14-16)

Jesus warns of the things to come, both in and of His Church and the world in general, and attests to our salvation through perseverance in Faith;

Matthew CH24; 4 “And Jesus answering, said to them: Take heed that no man seduce you: 5 For many will come in my name saying, I am Christ: and they will seduce many. 6 And you shall hear of wars and rumors of wars. See that ye be not troubled. For these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet. 7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom; and there shall be pestilences, and famines, and earthquakes in places: 8 Now all these are the beginnings of sorrows. 9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall put you to death: and you shall be hated by all nations for my name’s sake. 10 And then shall many be scandalized: and shall betray one another: and shall hate one another. 11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall seduce many. 12 And because iniquity hath abounded, the charity of many shall grow cold. 13 But he that shall persevere to the end, he shall be saved.”

Again we are warned of deceit and corruption of His word both from within and outside of His Church;

Acts Ch20; 28 “Take heed to yourselves, and to the whole flock, wherein the Holy Ghost hath placed you bishops, to rule the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood. 29 I know that, after my departure, ravening wolves will enter in among you, not sparing the flock. 30And of your own selves shall arise men speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them.”

There is but one Body, the Church, guided by the One Spirit, One Lord, One Faith, One Baptism;

Ephesians CH4; 1 “I therefore, a prisoner in the Lord, beseech you that you walk worthy of the vocation in which you are called, 2 With all humility and mildness, with patience, supporting one another in charity. 3 Careful to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace. 4 One body (the Church) and one Spirit (Holy Spirit); as you are called in one hope of your calling. 5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism.”

continued next post…

 

[twb1621]

contniued from previous post;

1 Corinthians CH12; “12***** For as the body is one, and hath many members; and all the members of the body, whereas they are many, yet are one body, so also is Christ. 13 For in one Spirit (The Holy Spirit) were we all baptized into one body (Church), whether Jews or Gentiles, whether bond or free; and in one Spirit we have all been made to drink. 14 For the body also is not one member, but many (the established church including the faithful******). 15 If the foot should say, because I am not the hand, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body? 16 And if the ear should say, because I am not the eye, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body? 17 If the whole body were the eye, where would be the hearing? If the whole were hearing, where would be the smelling? 18 But now God hath set the members every one of them in the body as it hath pleased him. 19 And if they all were one member, where would be the body? 20 But now there are many members indeed, yet one body. ***

21*** And the eye cannot say to the hand: I need not thy help; nor again the head to the feet: I have no need of you. 22 Yea, much more those that seem to be the more feeble members of the body, are more necessary. 23 And such as we think to be the less honourable members of the body, about these we put more abundant honour; and those that are our uncomely parts, have more abundant comeliness. 24 But our comely parts have no need: but God hath tempered the body together, giving to that which wanted the more abundant honour, 25 That there might be no schism in the body; but the members might be mutually careful one for another*. **

26 If (one) part suffers, all the parts suffer with it; if one part is honored, all the parts share its joy. 27 Now you are Christ’s body, and individually parts of it. 28 Some people God has designated in the church to be, first, apostles; second, prophets; third, teachers; then, mighty deeds; then, gifts of healing, assistance, administration, and varieties of tongues. 29 Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Do all work mighty deeds? 30 Do all have gifts of healing? Do all speak in tongues? Do all interpret? 31 Strive eagerly for the greatest spiritual gifts. But I shall show you a still more excellent way. ”

Colossians CH1; 18*** “And he is the head of the body, the church, who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he may hold the primacy: 19 Because in him, it hath well pleased the Father, that all fullness should dwell; 20 And through him to reconcile all things unto himself, making peace through the blood of his cross, both as to the things that are on earth, and the things that are in heaven***. ****

final continuation;

 

[twb1621]

Final continuation from previous post;

21** And you, whereas you were some time alienated and enemies in mind in evil works: 22 Yet now he hath reconciled in the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unspotted, and blameless before him: 23 If so ye continue in the faith, grounded and settled, and immoveable from the hope of the gospel which you have heard, which is preached in all the creation that is under heaven, whereof I Paul am made a minister. 24 Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up those things that are wanting of the sufferings of Christ, in my flesh, for his body, which is the church****.”**

---

Who so questions the commitment and ability of our Lord to oversee His Church and so love her in her devotion and purge her of her corruption as and when He determines appropriate to Him? Does man know better than God and isn’t the existence of so many “Christian” faiths a testament to just that? No where in Scripture does it say the Church Jesus founded would end, become corrupt and fail or be reestablished at any time or by any man before His return. Just the opposite is the truth. God proclaims through scripture everything but these things will occur. Yet many have been mislead into accepting the personal beliefs and disbeliefs of individual men and women who did not have the faith or knowledge to accept the complete teachings of our Lord, establishing their own distorted faith through individual interpretations. For those with doubts, If in fact the Catholic Church was not the true Church as some other “Christian” faiths were led to believe, one would have to know which Faith was the True Faith. After all, there must be one (and only one) because the Bible testifies to it and to the fact it must be visible, obvious, and is of only “one God, one Faith, one body and one Baptism”… So which one has been established by Jesus through the Apostles and their successors and has maintained consistency since His crucifixion without interruption as Jesus proclaimed AND has all the Characteristics to identify it Biblically?

Only the Catholic Church.

You mentioned why so many Catholics do not understand salvation, but one of the problems is there are many who think when they have finished their Catholic education, they have learned it. Many have not pursued learning scripture on their own. As far as the fault of the teachers within the Church are concerned, Jesus knew this would come about just as everything else but it is our responsibility to persevere in the faith and trust in His judgment. He knows when and how He will embrace His devoted and purge His corrupt. He always has.

 

[spockrates]

…
I do have certain questions, though, with which I am still wrestling. For the sake of space (and because I’ve already written so much here!), for now, I’ll just ask one of them. I know that the Church claims that Christ founded her, with Peter as the first Pope, and that the gates of Hell will never prevail against her. However, how do we think about this claim, in light of the fact that generations of Catholics have been taught inaccurately about essential teachings of the Catholic Faith-- in their very parishes and Catholic schools? The Catholic author, Peter Kreeft, claims that in decades of teaching Catholic students, he has asked hundreds of them if they know how a person gets to Heaven. Usually, he says, their answers to this question have not even included Jesus (!!!). How is it that Christ has allowed so many priests and nuns in His true Church to lead generations of Catholics into embracing heresy-- to the point that they don’t even know how to get to Heaven? How does this not constitute the gates of Hell prevailing against the Church?

Please know that my question is sincere. If the Catholic Church is the true Church, founded by Christ, I do want to return to her. I’m just honestly struggling with this question (and a few others that I may ask at another time).

Hi, Saved. Good question, that! I suppose a good way to answer your question is to start by discussing the meaning of Jesus’ words:

“And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it.”

(Matthew 16:18)

It might be helpful to discuss the meaning of the passage one statement at a time. What do you think Jesus meant when He said, “the gates of Hades will not overcome it”?