Dissolving Jesus in the eucharist

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I’ve heard that if a host goes unused, the proper procedure is to dissolve the host in water for a certain length of time. I’ve also heard that Jesus is only present in your body for a certain length of time as well. Does this practice have a theological basis? For example, does the substance of Jesus disappear when the accident is no longer chemically bread? If the dissolution even breaks the chemical bonds of the “bread”, what reason would we have to believe that the substance is altered by a chemical change to the accidents? is it merely divine revelation? Would this mean we could burn the host without any trouble, since the process of combustion is a chemical change? Finally, is the length of time before Jesus is fully disolved be an arbitrary length, or is it based on modern scientific principles for determining how long it takes for an object to become fully dissolved?

My thanks to anyone who can answer these questions.
 
I’d love to hear the answers. I don’t know any of this yet. I don’t know enough to even ask questions.
 
For anyone interested, this is how one gets on an ignore list.
 
Jesus is present as long as it appears to be bread. It has nothing to do with chemical bonds.

Jesus is gone when it no longer has the appearance of bread, however long that takes.

-Tim-
 
TimothyH said:
Jesus is present as long as it appears to be bread. It has nothing to do with chemical bonds.

Jesus is gone when it no longer has the appearance of bread, however long that takes.

-Tim-
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What is your basis for and isn’t “appearance” rather subjective?
 
TimothyH said:
Jesus is present as long as it appears to be bread. It has nothing to do with chemical bonds.

Jesus is gone when it no longer has the appearance of bread, however long that takes.

-Tim-
Click to expand...
Looks like my next topic of first Catholic studies is the Eucharist. I know nothing about it. So much to learn about everything.
 
N0X3x said:
I’ve heard that if a host goes unused, the proper procedure is to dissolve the host in water for a certain length of time. I’ve also heard that Jesus is only present in your body for a certain length of time as well. Does this practice have a theological basis? For example, does the substance of Jesus disappear when the accident is no longer chemically bread? If the dissolution even breaks the chemical bonds of the “bread”, what reason would we have to believe that the substance is altered by a chemical change to the accidents? is it merely divine revelation? Would this mean we could burn the host without any trouble, since the process of combustion is a chemical change? Finally, is the length of time before Jesus is fully disolved be an arbitrary length, or is it based on modern scientific principles for determining how long it takes for an object to become fully dissolved?

My thanks to anyone who can answer these questions.
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I’d like to point out you’re subject line is in need of correction: we cannot ‘dissolve’ Jesus as He is God. The Holy Eucharist comes in two species: the Body of Christ (consecrated bread) and the Blood of Christ (consecrated wine). The “bread” that we ingest is eventually digested (broken down) by our body but the presence of Christ continues on in our body. Likewise the “wine”; our bodies will absorb the water and chemicals that make up the wine but Christ continues on in us.

As Catholics, we believe Christ is already in each of us. He doesn’t leave us only to return when we receive Holy Communion. As you may recall, Jesus promised to be with us until the end of time. So joining with Him physically in the Holy Eucharist is one of the most reverent actions we can do.

As to your question on if Jesus is only present as long as the chemical bonds of the bread or wine is intact, He is present only because He desires to be present. The priest, during consecration, calls down the Holy Spirit so that Jesus may become present in the bread and wine. We do not capture Jesus so that He cannot leave at any time He chooses. Nor can we force Jesus to enter the bread and wine. That said, we truly believe He is present after the consecration so must treat His Body and Blood Soul and Divinity with all the respect we can afford.
 
808Catholic said:
I’d like to point out you’re subject line is in need of correction: we cannot ‘dissolve’ Jesus as He is God. The Holy Eucharist comes in two species: the Body of Christ (consecrated bread) and the Blood of Christ (consecrated wine). The “bread” that we ingest is eventually digested (broken down) by our body but the presence of Christ continues on in our body. Likewise the “wine”; our bodies will absorb the water and chemicals that make up the wine but Christ continues on in us.

As Catholics, we believe Christ is already in each of us. He doesn’t leave us only to return when we receive Holy Communion. As you may recall, Jesus promised to be with us until the end of time. So joining with Him physically in the Holy Eucharist is one of the most reverent actions we can do.

As to your question on if Jesus is only present as long as the chemical bonds of the bread or wine is intact, He is present only because He desires to be present. The priest, during consecration, calls down the Holy Spirit so that Jesus may become present in the bread and wine. We do not capture Jesus so that He cannot leave at any time He chooses. Nor can we force Jesus to enter the bread and wine. That said, we truly believe He is present after the consecration so must treat His Body and Blood Soul and Divinity with all the respect we can afford.
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This is beautifully written so even I can understand it. I am looking forward, with great respect, to my first communion.
 
TemperanceOfGod said:
This is beautifully written so even I can understand it. I am looking forward, with great respect, to my first communion.
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Temperance,
Thank you for your kind feedback. As I tell others, I’m just an unworthy cup still being formed by my Creator. Any good that comes from me is from the Creator; a cup cannot take credit for the great wine it contains. God Bless you and savor every moment of your First Communion. As I heard in an audio file about a priest celebrating Mass “Treat it as if it’s your first and only Mass!” Each time we receive the Body and Blood of Christ; it should bring us back to our First Communion.
 
808Catholic said:
Temperance,
Thank you for your kind feedback. As I tell others, I’m just an unworthy cup still being formed by my Creator. Any good that comes from me is from the Creator; a cup cannot take credit for the great wine it contains. God Bless you and savor every moment of your First Communion. As I heard in an audio file about a priest celebrating Mass “Treat it as if it’s your first and only Mass!” Each time we receive the Body and Blood of Christ; it should bring us back to our First Communion.
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Amen, Our Lord uses us in mysterious ways. A simple word, a thought, a prayer, can mean the world of faith to someone who is seeking. I have dreams of my first communion, it is going to be so glorious. It may not happen for quite a few months yet.

I’ve had communion in the pentecostal church but that is all just a form of symbolism. To know the Catholic Eucharist will be prayed over and Jesus will actually be in the bread and wine is divinely glorious. It will be special for sure, I may be overwhelmed when it happens, (I hope I don’t faint). All I can think of is it will be like a cloud of Glory when I partake.

You are so welcome. May God richly bless you. ❤️
 
N0X3x said:
I’ve heard that if a host goes unused, the proper procedure is to dissolve the host in water for a certain length of time.
Click to expand...
I believe If it doesn’t get consumed or it’s unused it gets places back inside the tabernacle, I believe it’s only in certain rare circumstances when it can no longer be consumed due to the accidents of the bread that it gets dissolved in water so that it is no longer recognizable as a host. This water is then poured into a ‘Sacrarium’ which is a special sink from which the water flows to consecrated ground within the precinct.

Note: The altar cloths and chalices used in the Mass are all laundered and washed in this same sink (Sacrarium) so that any crumbs or drops of wine inadvertently remaining on them may be disposed of with due reverence.
N0X3x said:
I’ve also heard that Jesus is only present in your body for a certain length of time as well. Does this practice have a theological basis?
Click to expand...
I can’t exactly remember where I read it and what the explanation was, but I’m sure that that is incorrect.
N0X3x said:
For example, does the substance of Jesus disappear when the accident is no longer chemically bread?
Click to expand...
I don’t know the answer to that, but it appears that the way the water is disposed of after a host is dissolved in it, is in the most sacred way. So I believe that’s either not correct or there is a ‘better safe than sorry’ approach to it.
N0X3x said:
If the dissolution even breaks the chemical bonds of the “bread”, what reason would we have to believe that the substance is altered by a chemical change to the accidents? is it merely divine revelation?
Click to expand...
The belief in the real presence I believe is primarily grounded in divine revelation. (There are also Eucharistic Miracles and His presence being ‘felt’)
N0X3x said:
Would this mean we could burn the host without any trouble, since the process of combustion is a chemical change?
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:eek: No. 😉
N0X3x said:
Finally, is the length of time before Jesus is fully disolved be an arbitrary length, or is it based on modern scientific principles for determining how long it takes for an object to become fully dissolved?
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The latter.
N0X3x said:
My thanks to anyone who can answer these questions.
Click to expand...
No worries, I hope this has helped 🙂

God Bless You

Thank you for reading
Josh
 
TemperanceOfGod said:
Amen, Our Lord uses us in mysterious ways. A simple word, a thought, a prayer, can mean the world of faith to someone who is seeking. I have dreams of my first communion, it is going to be so glorious. It may not happen for quite a few months yet.

I’ve had communion in the pentecostal church but that is all just a form of symbolism. To know the Catholic Eucharist will be prayed over and Jesus will actually be in the bread and wine is divinely glorious. It will be special for sure, I may be overwhelmed when it happens, (I hope I don’t faint). All I can think of is it will be like a cloud of Glory when I partake.

You are so welcome. May God richly bless you. ❤️
Click to expand...
Temperance
I know a young woman who’s going to be Confirmed soon; she’s in our RCIA class where I’m one of the instructors. She’s so exuberant when it’s time for Communion she actually skips up to receive Him!!! I am so thankful for people like her and you who exhibit the joy of receiving the Real Presence; your joy reminds me to always be joyful because the translation of “Eucharist” is “thanksgiving”. Thank YOU for reminding me and I pray you are an example for others as well.
 
EllisWoods said:
What is your basis for
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The ‘basis’ is that this is the teaching of the Church.
isn’t “appearance” rather subjective?
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Your particular experience of a sunset is, by definition, a subjective experience. However, the question “is that a sunset you’re watching?”, tends to elicit an objective response (or, at least, one that has a single answer among people – that is, ‘objective’ by consensus). I’m thinking that the question “does this host continue to have the appearance of bread?” is, likewise, an objective question.
 
Gorgias said:
The ‘basis’ is that this is the teaching of the Church.

Your particular experience of a sunset is, by definition, a subjective experience. However, the question “is that a sunset you’re watching?”, tends to elicit an objective response (or, at least, one that has a single answer among people – that is, ‘objective’ by consensus). I’m thinking that the question “does this host continue to have the appearance of bread?” is, likewise, an objective question.
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Can you provide a reference to where the church teaches this? I totally disagree with your point about the appearance of bread. If two people disagree on whether something appears to be bread, which is the reality?
 
josh987654321 said:
I believe If it doesn’t get consumed or it’s unused it gets places back inside the tabernacle, I believe it’s only in certain rare circumstances when it can no longer be consumed due to the accidents of the bread that it gets dissolved in water so that it is no longer recognizable as a host. This water is then poured into a ‘Sacrarium’ which is a special sink from which the water flows to consecrated ground within the precinct.

Note: The altar cloths and chalices used in the Mass are all laundered and washed in this same sink (Sacrarium) so that any crumbs or drops of wine inadvertently remaining on them may be disposed of with due reverence.

I can’t exactly remember where I read it and what the explanation was, but I’m sure that that is incorrect.

I don’t know the answer to that, but it appears that the way the water is disposed of after a host is dissolved in it, is in the most sacred way. So I believe that’s either not correct or there is a ‘better safe than sorry’ approach to it.

The belief in the real presence I believe is primarily grounded in divine revelation. (There are also Eucharistic Miracles and His presence being ‘felt’)

:eek: No. 😉

The latter.

No worries, I hope this has helped 🙂

God Bless You

Thank you for reading
Josh
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It has. Especially the point that the dissolved eucharist is still treated respectfully.
Thank you.
 
N0X3x said:
I’ve heard that if a host goes unused, the proper procedure is to dissolve the host in water for a certain length of time. I’ve also heard that Jesus is only present in your body for a certain length of time as well. Does this practice have a theological basis?
Click to expand...
That is the teaching of the Council of Trent. It is also discussed in the Roman Catechism and the Catechism of the Catholic Church. I do not know if there is a proper way of disposing of the species other than by consuming them. That is why the celebrant consumes the wine left after communion. And if he were celebrating mass on a battle field or out in the bush some where, he would consume the remaining hosts as well.
For example, does the substance of Jesus disappear when the accident is no longer chemically bread?
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Yes, that would be inline with the teaching of the Council of Trent.
If the dissolution even breaks the chemical bonds of the “bread”, what reason would we have to believe that the substance is altered by a chemical change to the accidents? is it merely divine revelation? Would this mean we could burn the host without any trouble, since the process of combustion is a chemical change? Finally, is the length of time before Jesus is fully disolved be an arbitrary length, or is it based on modern scientific principles for determining how long it takes for an object to become fully dissolved?
Click to expand...
Your question here is not applicable to any real situation. But when we concume the species they get broken down chemically and once that happens, Christ is no longer physically present. The length of time for that to take place would be rather short, certainly within 15 minutes - in my opinion. There is no hard and fast rule that I know of.

Linus2nd
 
EllisWoods said:
Can you provide a reference to where the church teaches this?
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I think you’re asking where the Church teaches that the True Presence of Christ persists in the Eucharist while the appearance of bread (or appearance of wine) exists. Is that what you’re asking?
I totally disagree with your point about the appearance of bread. If two people disagree on whether something appears to be bread, which is the reality?
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The reality simply is, aside from the perception of eyewitnesses, wouldn’t you say? Yet, if we had twenty people line up, with varying degrees of visual acuity, and they watched the Eucharist dissolve in water, their perceptions would differ, wouldn’t they? Along the way, they might perceive the Eucharist as having dissolved at different points in time. Yet, the Eucharist would have dissolved – as a matter of fact, not perception – at a particular point in time. At that particular point – as a distinct fact, not as a perception of one of our twenty witnesses – the Eucharist would cease to possess the True Presence of Christ.

The question, of course, is whether most would recognize this point as the one at which the host ceases to have the appearance of bread.
 
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