Divine hiddennes,Paul,Free will

[DetectiveNiko]

So basically, there was a time when I doubted my faith because of the hiddennes of God.
The most satisfying answers I got is because he doesn’t want to interfere with our free will of choosing
him, and because of love, because he wants us to freely choose him. I don’t really mind got hiding or not now, but it makes me wonder.
What about Paul then ? He was converted by the fact that God showed himself to him and asking him why he persecutes him. Did God violate Paul’s free will, or does this show there is some other reason to divine hiddenness ?

Feedback and thoughts would be grately appriciated.

 

[1Lord1Faith]

Paul could still have said no after his encounter with Christ. I wonder how many people have had encounters with Christ who still said no to Him. Didn’t Pilate’s wife have a dream about Christ, and told Pilate not to have anything to do with Him?

 

[Mike_from_NJ]

I never bought the argument that knowing something inhibits our freewill. The choices we make are improved and less left up to chance the more we know.

In short, knowledge increases freewill. It doesn’t detract from it.

 

[MPat]

What about Paul then ? He was converted by the fact that God showed himself to him and asking him why he persecutes him. Did God violate Paul’s free will, or does this show there is some other reason to divine hiddenness ?

I’d say that yes, St. Paul’s free will did end up somewhat impeded. After all, he did get scared.

That happens. Neither maximising free will nor maximising knowledge is God’s only goal. It is only natural that sometimes in multi-objective optimisation “compromises” have to be made.

Anyway, we can see that God avoided impeding free will of St. Paul’s companions too much - they were not shown as much, as St. Paul. Also, St. Paul was a Jew, so he already believed in God, meaning that less was “sabotaged” by his vision.

For that matter, perhaps it would be easier to consider merit instead of free will…

 

[Vico]

So basically, there was a time when I doubted my faith because of the hiddennes of God.
The most satisfying answers I got is because he doesn’t want to interfere with our free will of choosing
him, and because of love, because he wants us to freely choose him. I don’t really mind got hiding or not now, but it makes me wonder.
What about Paul then ? He was converted by the fact that God showed himself to him and asking him why he persecutes him. Did God violate Paul’s free will, or does this show there is some other reason to divine hiddenness ?

Feedback and thoughts would be grately appriciated.

God always gives actual graces of conversion, for man cannot save himself through the power of his human nature. The free will cooperation of man is needed however to remain in a state of grace.

 

[Benadam]

Genesis 3:8 They heard the sound of the Lord God walking in the garden at the time of the evening breeze, and the man and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the Lord God among the trees of the garden. 9 But the Lord God called to the man, and said to him, “Where are you?”

After sin, it seems we would even avoid the sound of God’s footsteps. God isn’t hiding, we are I think.

 

[StarMapp]

The privilege of personal contact came at a price. Peter was told by Christ that he would be taken by the belt and taken to places he didn’t want to go. Most of the apostles became martyrs. The saints fared no better in their lives. Some who have had private revelations had a life of constant physical war with the devil. They are more firmly thrust into a new vocation knowing now that they cannot withdraw.

The more that is given, the more that is expected.

 

[HarryStotle]

I never bought the argument that knowing something inhibits our freewill. The choices we make are improved and less left up to chance the more we know.

In short, knowledge increases freewill. It doesn’t detract from it.

Jesus agrees with you:

"…you will know the truth, and the truth will make you free.” (John 8:32)

The question of the hiddenness of God might revolve around our motive for knowing what we will to know.

With freedom comes power. Are we to be trusted with the knowledge and attendant power?

Knowledge isn’t held in isolation but comes from the bigger picture. Knowing God in the sense implied in the OP may entail more than what we can be trusted to know until we can be trusted to know it.

 

[Vico]

The privilege of personal contact came at a price. Peter was told by Christ that he would be taken by the belt and taken to places he didn’t want to go. Most of the apostles became martyrs. The saints fared no better in their lives. Some who have had private revelations had a life of constant physical war with the devil. They are more firmly thrust into a new vocation knowing now that they cannot withdraw.

The more that is given, the more that is expected.

And loook what else follows at the general resurrection:

Matthew 19

27 Then Peter answering, said to him: Behold we have left all things, and have followed thee: what therefore shall we have? 28 And Jesus said to them: Amen, I say to you, that you, who have followed me, in the regeneration, when the Son of man shall sit on the seat of his majesty, you also shall sit on twelve seats judging the twelve tribes of Israel. 29 And every one that hath left house, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands for my name’s sake, shall receive an hundredfold, and shall possess life everlasting. 30 And many that are first, shall be last: and the last shall be first.

1 Cor. 6

2 Know you not that the saints shall judge this world? And if the world shall be judged by you, are you unworthy to judge the smallest matters?

 

[StarMapp]

Good choices for reflection , thanks.