Divine Liturgy Questions?

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Vivat_Christus

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Hi everyone! Sorry if this is in the wrong place or if there’s already a similar thread to this, I’m still new to CAF.

I’m very interested in Eastern Christianity, both that of our Eastern Catholic and of our Orthodox brothers and sisters. There is a Melkite Catholic church, a Maronite Catholic church and a Greek Orthodox church near my house. I’ve been thinking about attending Divine Liturgy at these churches to experience how Eastern Christians worship and celebrate the Eucharist in person, and to learn more about the beautiful and ancient traditons held by them. What might I expect? Could anybody tell me what the services in these three rites/traditons are like? Correct me if I’m wrong, but I understand that Maronite Divine Liturgy is closer to a Latin-rite Mass than that in Melkite or other Byzantine-rite churches (are Melkites Byzantines…?) Also, would the Greek Orthodox service be in English? Is receiving Communion there a sin if Orthodox sacraments are valid?

Thanks in advance,
Vivat Christus
 
Vivat_Christus said:
Hi everyone! Sorry if this is in the wrong place or if there’s already a similar thread to this, I’m still new to CAF.

I’m very interested in Eastern Christianity, both that of our Eastern Catholic and of our Orthodox brothers and sisters. There is a Melkite Catholic church, a Maronite Catholic church and a Greek Orthodox church near my house. I’ve been thinking about attending Divine Liturgy at these churches to experience how Eastern Christians worship and celebrate the Eucharist in person, and to learn more about the beautiful and ancient traditons held by them. What might I expect? Could anybody tell me what the services in these three rites/traditons are like? Correct me if I’m wrong, but I understand that Maronite Divine Liturgy is closer to a Latin-rite Mass than that in Melkite or other Byzantine-rite churches (are Melkites Byzantines…?) Also, would the Greek Orthodox service be in English? Is receiving Communion there a sin if Orthodox sacraments are valid?

Thanks in advance,
Vivat Christus
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A Catholic is not free to receive in the Orthodox parishes. The Melkite will likely use a mixture of languages including Greek and Arabic and vernacular. The Byzantine USA will use English and there may be some Slavonic hymns sung.
 
Thanks, Vico. Another question: in all three of these traditions/rites, is there any genuflecting involved? Is the Sign of the Cross made from right-to-left instead of left-to-right?
 
Vivat_Christus said:
Thanks, Vico. Another question: in all three of these traditions/rites, is there any genuflecting involved? Is the Sign of the Cross made from right-to-left instead of left-to-right?
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The Sign of the Cross is right-to-left.

Genuflection is not typically used in the Constantinople tradition but sometimes there is kneeling. Byzantines will kneel at times during the Liturgy of the Presanctified Gifts.

Sunday profound bow may be a sign of the cross and deep bow and touch the floor typically only done this way two or three times during the Anaphora.

The Maronites historically used genuflection, taken from the Latin. There may be some parishes that have not reverted to older West Syrian traditions, so still genuflect. But the Maronites kneel at the Great Matany on Great Friday and on Pentecost Sunday during the Kneeling Ritual.

For the Maronites, the “kiss of Peace” is like the Chaldeans, where the “giver” holds both hands together (in the “praying hands” pose) and he “receiver” puts both hands over.
 
Welcome to the CAF EC section. 🙂 Vico has answered some of your questions already.
Vivat_Christus said:
… I’ve been thinking about attending Divine Liturgy at these churches to experience how Eastern Christians worship and celebrate the Eucharist in person, and to learn more about the beautiful and ancient traditons held by them. What might I expect? Could anybody tell me what the services in these three rites/traditons are like?
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If you look in Wikipedia under Divine Liturgy you can find a lot of excellent information. At the very simplest/simplistic level the DL had two main parts like the Holy Mass, the Liturgy of the Catechumens (Liturgy of the Word), and Liturgy of the Faithful (Liturgy of the Eucharist).

The Divine Liturgy is sung in large part. The Churches you mention are likely to have pews which other Churches do not use, but the normal posture is still to stand during most of Liturgy.

There are some Youtubes of Divine Liturgy.
… Also, would the Greek Orthodox service be in English? Is receiving Communion there a sin if Orthodox sacraments are valid?
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Liturgy in a Greek Orthodox Church is not going to be in English, although it may be partly in English and partly in Greek. The Cathedral I often go to typically prays the Creed and the Our Father in Greek, then repeats in English. Same with the Epistle and the Gospel. The rest of the service tends to be partly in English and partly in Greek, the percentage of English varies, but at least 50% most days.

The Chaldean parish I visited had an separate “English” liturgy, which turned out to be the Gospel proclaimed in English. That was the sum total of the English. 🙂

In the circumstances you describe a Catholic would not be allowed by the Orthodox to receive Eucharist, and Canon law of the Latin Church also would not allow it. There are circumstances where Eucharist is shared, but that is another topic for another thread.

Something I have seen in both Melkite and Chaldean/Assyrian Churches is females covering their head to receive communion. In these Churches which I’ve visited only a few women wore a head covering throughout the Liturgy.

You are very likely to be spotted as a visitor in these Churches and in most Eastern Catholic and many Orthodox parishes because we’re relatively small in most cases and people tend to know everyone who is a regular. That shouldn’t worry you. Most parishes are very friendly and happy to answer questions. 🙂

Are there any other Orthodox Churches in your area? The Orthodox Church in America (OCA), and the Antiochians often have a lot of English in their Liturgy.
 
Thanks, 5Loaves, your posts were really helpful! The internet tells me that there is another Greek Orthodox, an Antiochian Orthodox, a Russian Orthodox and an OCA parish relatively close to where I live.

Since Catholics are not allowed to receive Orthodox Communion, is there a procedure for those not disposed to take the Eucharist in most Orthodox Churches (particularly Greek Orthodox)? Should I cross my arms across my chest in the shape of an “X” like many Latin Catholics do or should I remain at my pew? What about in the Melkite and Maronite churches if I happened not to be in a state of grace at the time I went?
 
Vivat_Christus said:
Thanks, 5Loaves, your posts were really helpful! The internet tells me that there is another Greek Orthodox, an Antiochian Orthodox, a Russian Orthodox and an OCA parish relatively close to where I live.

Since Catholics are not allowed to receive Orthodox Communion, is there a procedure for those not disposed to take the Eucharist in most Orthodox Churches (particularly Greek Orthodox)? Should I cross my arms across my chest in the shape of an “X” like many Latin Catholics do or should I remain at my pew? What about in the Melkite and Maronite churches if I happened not to be in a state of grace at the time I went?
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Just stay in your pew - crossing arms like an X is a sign used while receiving in many Eastern Churches. It’s a relatively new practice for Latins to do so while NOT receiving.
 
Vivat_Christus said:
Thanks, 5Loaves, your posts were really helpful! The internet tells me that there is another Greek Orthodox, an Antiochian Orthodox, a Russian Orthodox and an OCA parish relatively close to where I live.

Since Catholics are not allowed to receive Orthodox Communion, is there a procedure for those not disposed to take the Eucharist in most Orthodox Churches (particularly Greek Orthodox)? Should I cross my arms across my chest in the shape of an “X” like many Latin Catholics do or should I remain at my pew? What about in the Melkite and Maronite churches if I happened not to be in a state of grace at the time I went?
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In the Divine Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom you will receive a blessing by the celebrant, with the Sign of the Cross, six times:
  • Before reading the Gospel
  • Before the Profession of Faith
  • Start of the Anaphora
  • In the Preparation for Communion (twice)
  • In the Ambon Prayer
 
SyroMalankara said:
Just stay in your pew - crossing arms like an X is a sign used while receiving in many Eastern Churches. It’s a relatively new practice for Latins to do so while NOT receiving.
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Vico:
In the Divine Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom you will receive a blessing by the celebrant, with the Sign of the Cross, six times:
  • Before reading the Gospel
  • Before the Profession of Faith
  • Start of the Anaphora
  • In the Preparation for Communion (twice)
  • In the Ambon Prayer
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OK, good to know. Thanks, everyone! 👍
 
Vivat_Christus said:
Thanks, 5Loaves, your posts were really helpful! The internet tells me that there is another Greek Orthodox, an Antiochian Orthodox, a Russian Orthodox and an OCA parish relatively close to where I live.
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You might look at the websites for the OCA and Antiochian parishes to see if they indicate something other than English. Otherwise services there may be predominately, tho not necessarily exclusively, in English. If the Russian Orthodox parish is ROCOR then they are unlikely to have much if any English. Our ROCOR Cathedral here does have Divine Liturgy in English on the last Sunday of the month at 7:30AM, followed by the usual Liturgy in Slavonic.
Since Catholics are not allowed to receive Orthodox Communion, is there a procedure for those not disposed to take the Eucharist in most Orthodox Churches (particularly Greek Orthodox)? Should I cross my arms across my chest in the shape of an “X” like many Latin Catholics do or should I remain at my pew? What about in the Melkite and Maronite churches if I happened not to be in a state of grace at the time I went?
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As SyroMalankara said, you should remain in the pew when not receiving Eucharist. I don’t know about the Maronites, but locally here the Melkites commune you by name, as do Ruthenians and Russians, so don’t be surprised if you’re asked your first/Christian name when it’s your turn to receive (and don’t be surprised if you aren’t asked 🙂 ) The Melkites commune with the priest taking a piece of the Body of Christ and intincting it, then placing it in your mouth. You don’t say anything. I don’t know whether the Maronites do something similar, or if they commune using a spoon as Russians and Ruthenians do.

Greeks, and the Melkites, have antidoron, blessed bread which you can receive. Again, I’m unfamiliar with the Maronites on this. You go up to the priest at the end of the Liturgy. The Greeks usually the priest hands you a piece of antidoron and says a blessing, the Melkites the priest has his hand cross which you kiss and he says a blessing and the antidoron is on a table you pass, or an altar server hands you a piece. All these things can vary according to the custom of the parish as well. There may be plenty of antidoron for you to also take a piece home, or to just eat there. I usually bring a piece home to my husband if he hasn’t gone with me.

If you’re comfortable doing so, when the priest hands you the antidoron you kiss the back of his hand as you receive the bread. In the case where the priest has a hand cross, you kiss the cross. We Russians kiss his hand that is holding the cross and I usually do that with the Ruthenian priest and Melkite, but I believe that’s not typical, We Russians also kiss the chalice after we are given the Eucharist. That doesn’t happen in other Churches. If you go to the OCA and the ROCOR you’ll see the people kiss the chalice.

Parishes also vary a great deal as far as head covering. If you are a female I would suggest having something you can use to cover your head if it seems that all the women are covering, and to wear a skirt or dress rather than pants. The “dress code” varies hugely from place to place.

There is so much variation you should not be concerned about making a mistake. Follow what you see others doing. Some of these Churches/parishes also have service books, kind of like a missalette you can use, but I would encourage you not to have your nose in the book. Rather just watch all that is going on, and listen, and just take in what you can. 🙂

There is a lot of kissing in the East. 🙂 You will see people kissing icons. If you wish to do so we do not kiss Christ, his mother the Theotokas, or the saints on their faces, but rather on the feet, or hands.
 
Vico said:
The Maronites historically used genuflection, taken from the Latin. There may be some parishes that have not reverted to older West Syrian traditions, so still genuflect.
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I’m in the USA and in my parish we were taught to bow from the time I was a child (back in the early 70’s) - other than the Kneeling Rite.
I went to Roman rite grade school, and was taught to genuflect at the school parish.
I’ve never heard that Maronites “historically” used genuflection.
But, just like in any of the Churches, there will be those parishes who are traditional and others not so much.
 
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