Divorce and Marriage Classes

[DSJJ]

Listening to a stat on the radio the other day say Catholics divorce at the same rate as the secular world, at what point do you say these six months of marriage classes aren’t any better than not having them at all. Do you think the church needs to scrap the classes and come up with something different?

 

[puzzleannie]

Listening to a stat on the radio the other day say Catholics divorce at the same rate as the secular world, at what point do you say these six months of marriage classes aren’t any better than not having them at all. Do you think the church needs to scrap the classes and come up with something different?

the statistic that would make that scrap of info meaningful is “how many of those in the study had premarital sex, how many practice ABC, and how many actually went through premarital classes that taught actual Catholic doctrine” (as opposed to the teachers pushing their own agendas).

 

[joandarc2008]

I once asked a much older lady this very same question - I liked her answer - she told the problem is that most of society is ill formed for marriage as secular society no longer conforms in any way shape or form to God’s rules. Young adults looking to marry need to already know how to live counterculturally. This takes much longer than six months or even a year - it should be a lifelong process - so are we raising our children to be prepared for marriage?

 

[odile53]

Leaving aside the question of whether the Church needs to revamp marriage readiness classes, it always struck me odd that it’s more complicated to get a driver’s license than a marriage license. So I think that there should be a three part test before anyone is allowed to get married:

Written test–basic communication and conflict resolution skills
Eye test–both parties should be able to prove to a disinterested third party precisely what they see in each other
Road test–Two weeks’ confinement in a third story walkup cold water flat with a stopped up toilet, a toddler with the measles, no internet, no cable TV, and an overdrawn checking account (no physical intimacy allowed!)

If the couple in question survives all that without jumping out of the window, go ahead and get married.

Okay, I’m in a bit of a goofy mood this morning!

But when you come right down to it, a lot of people don’t even have basic life problem solving skills, aren’t able to communicate meaningfully, can’t manage resources, and if their spiritual life gets more than a lick and a promise, it’s a big stretch! Maybe it’s not so much premarital education that people need, but premarital counseling. Some people lead such emotionally and spiritually incompetent lives that they’re lucky if their houseplants survive! And maybe priests need to stick to their guns and refuse to marry couples like this! So many people put so much time and effort into their Hollywood productions–excuse me, weddings–and ignore the fact that that marriage license isn’t a guarantee of anything. It’s merely a license to hunt!

 

[Glenn77]

Listening to a stat on the radio the other day say Catholics divorce at the same rate as the secular world, at what point do you say these six months of marriage classes aren’t any better than not having them at all. Do you think the church needs to scrap the classes and come up with something different?

I question your premise. Do couples really have six months of marriage classes? I recall a minium six month wait, but not six months worth of classes.

Sad to say I was married once before (~1989), and later divorced / annulled. My X and I met with the parish priest ONCE, and attended an Engagement Encounter weekend. On that weekend we were probably not as honest as we should have been. We did not properly prepare (and were too young).

When I married again 10 years later, we met with our Deacon about 4 times or so, took a tests to see how well we were prepared (in agreement on major issues), and attended Pre-Cana (if I recall, about 4 hours worth). Either the process had improved in 10 years, or it more thorough since I had a previous marriage.

Pre-Cana or Engagement Encounter are wonderful tools to HELP prepare for marriage, but couples must do their homework and discuss things. The fact is many of the couples attending these are simply going through the motions to appease the church. Others are blinded to the warning signs by their infatuation (I certainly was for my first marriage).

Are regarding the comment someone made about premarital sex… I am certain that if I hadn’t premarital sex with my X then I wouldn’t have been blinded to the many warning signs.

As someone who has gone through the pain of divorce, and learned from his mistakes, I can tell you that these classes ARE important, and couples should prepare more, not less.

 

[joandarc2008]

We actually met with the deacon for a year- but again if only one is being honest than it doesn’t matter. I think the deacon was trying to get him to slip up on his lies. But also again I will second if we had not had premarital sex…And no the period of chastity was too little, too late.

 

[fide]

Listening to a stat on the radio the other day say Catholics divorce at the same rate as the secular world, at what point do you say these six months of marriage classes aren’t any better than not having them at all. Do you think the church needs to scrap the classes and come up with something different?

In a word, yes - “repeal and replace!” Our pre-marital process is a failure.

My wife and I were asked to give presentations in the one-day (about 5 hours) “pre-Cana” preparation for a diocese in the NorthEast. There were five or so presenters - all were lectures. This was the only formal “preparation” the couples received from the Church, and it was shameful. It was a beginning, but so embarrassingly inadequate that it was truly shameful. It should have been part 1 of perhaps a 6 part series, but it was not: that was “IT” as they say.

This is merely one example of our larger failure to catechize in general, and to give sacramental preparation in particular. I hear beautiful encouragements and exhortations from the Pope - and occasionally good words from bishops - but it seems to stop there, in my experience. Local priest-pastors do as they choose, when and if they choose - and some are holy and zealous men, and many are not. God help us, and may it be soon.

 

[lizaanne]

the statistic that would make that scrap of info meaningful is “how many of those in the study had premarital sex, how many practice ABC, and how many actually went through premarital classes that taught actual Catholic doctrine” (as opposed to the teachers pushing their own agendas).

This really hits at the root of the issue. You can talk to someone for THREE YEARS, and if you aren’t telling them the Truth then it’s not doing them any good whatsoever.

Pre-marriage prep needs to be telling couples EXACTLY what the Church teaches about marriage. The engaged encounter weekend we went to had a woman telling us that she didn’t think the Church’s teaching on contraception was right. Now how is that going to do all the couples in that room any good? I was FURIOUS and made it known in my evaluation of the class, but I’m sure it was tossed in the round file.

Until couples learn what a Catholic marriage is and means from birth by living within the context of one at home, and then being taught SOLID Truth at their parish, and finally SOLID Truth during marriage prep, then Catholics will absolutely divorce at the same rate as anyone else. Why wouldn’t they? If they are raised and taught like non-Catholics, how can we expect them to act like Catholics when it comes down to the wire?

Yep - it’s all messed up.

~Liza

 

[puzzleannie]

if we were doing it right, sponsor couples and those running marriage preparation programs in parishes and dioceses would be
living chaste celibate lives if unmarried
or
living chaste, faithful married lives, including fully embracing Church teaching on sex and marriage, having refrained from premarital sex, infidelity and artificial contraception throughout their marriage, or at least have converted to that POV.

good luck trying to find such people.

still because as system is not perfect is not reason to abandon the system, it is reason to reform the system.

Catholic youth will adopt Catholic attitudes on sex and marriage when their parents do.