Divorce Question

  • Thread starter Thread starter aqu5dawk0
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
A

aqu5dawk0

Guest
Hi,
I need your help. I helped a dear friend return to the Church in which he was baptized, and now he has met with a great personal tragedy. When he was a militant atheist , he met and married an unbaptized atheist in a purely civil ceremony in Europe. Now, she is divorcing him and it seems pretty final. Today he asked me if it was a sin for him to be divorced and if he remarried later, would the Church allow it. I doubt he is committing a sin just because someone divorces him in a civil court, but I do not know if the Church will allow him to remarry at a later date. Can anyone shed any light on his situation? At least he has no kids but it is still quite a blow for him. I only hope his faith doesn’t suffer.
 
The only way he could date and marry again is if he is granted an annulment.
 
When two unbaptized people marry they form a natural marriage that is indissoluble by anything within the marriage or persons marriage, but things outside the marriage can dissolve it such as infidelity or Pauline Privilege. It is Pauline Privilege that is important here, in a nutshell a person in a natural marriage may decide to dissolve it if he has since been baptized and wishes to join the religious life or to marry another in the church. Now if two people that are baptized enter into a sacramental marriage but do not consummate it this is pseudo dissoluble; it can be dissolved if one or both persons wish to enter into religious life and so do not consummate it*, and I assume, but am not aware of ecclesiastical teaching one way or another, that an unconsummated marriage can be dissolved due to adultery. The last type of marriage is consummate sacramental marriage between two baptized persons; this is absolutely indissoluble, meaning that there are no means except death to dissolve such a marriage. This brings me to annulments, they are an ecclesiastical judicial proceeding to prove beyond doubt that no consummate sacramental marriage actually took place. It is my position that the vast number of annulments granted prove either that many are granted fraudulently without regard for whether a marriage took place, or that there is an astounding lack of catechetical and pastoral preparation for marriage. Sadly the state of the church is such that the latter is more likely to be true than the former, though it is probably a combination of the two.

In brief, if he married an unbaptized woman and later joined the faith, then there is no sin if this natural marriage is dissolved by Pauline Privilege, and you can send my congratulations that he has come home to Christ.

*See Canon VI session XXIV of the Council of Trent:
Can. 6. If anyone says that matrimony contracted but not consummated is not dissolved by the solemn religious profession of one of the parties, let him be anathema.
 
Also yes because his marriage is truly dissolved he is certainly allowed remarriage according to the laws of the church.
 
It is a great thing that he returned- truly it was done by the grace of God. Does the fact that he was baptized Catholic in the first place have any significance for Pauline Privelege?
 
If he was baptized Catholic but married this woman outside the Church without permission from the bishop, then his marriage would not have been valid. This is called “lack of form” and would need to be investigated by the Church. But he should be able to marry “again” in the Church without issue, if what you know is accurate.
 
aqu5dawk0 said:
It is a great thing that he returned- truly it was done by the grace of God. Does the fact that he was baptized Catholic in the first place have any significance for Pauline Privelege?
Click to expand...
Not if she wasn’t baptized. The only form of marriage available to an unbaptized person is natural marriage even if it is contracted with one who is already baptized.
 
I was under the impression that if you have been married by a civil authoruty only or outside the church, that it was not considered a marriage by the power of God, and therefore you can can get married by the church. Is this not correct?
 
There are so many different circumstances for so many cases. The best thing for your friend to do, not you, would be for him to go make an appointment to speak to a priest. He will know exactly what is right for your friend.
 
I was under the impression that if you have been married by a civil authoruty only or outside the church, that it was not considered a marriage by the power of God, and therefore you can can get married by the church. Is this not correct?
 
He needs to sit down with his Pastor and discuss.

Non-Baptized persons enter valid natural marriages every day. Only the Tribunal can discern if his was valid.
 
Creo said:
I was under the impression that if you have been married by a civil authoruty only or outside the church, that it was not considered a marriage by the power of God, and therefore you can can get married by the church. Is this not correct?
Click to expand...
If either of the parties is a baptized Catholic and they marry without permission outside of the Church, the marriage is very likely invalid - again, the Tribunal will take care of the process for those folks.

Were either he or his wife baptized Catholic as a baby or later in life?
 
Inego_de_Loyola said:
40.png
aqu5dawk0:
It is a great thing that he returned- truly it was done by the grace of God. Does the fact that he was baptized Catholic in the first place have any significance for Pauline Privelege?
Click to expand...
Not if she wasn’t baptized. The only form of marriage available to an unbaptized person is natural marriage even if it is contracted with one who is already baptized.
Click to expand...
I think you’re mistaken here. nodito came closer to the truth, noting that, since your friend had been previously baptized, then “Pauline Privilege” doesn’t apply. (It only applies in the case of two unbaptized persons who marry, and when one spouse later is baptized.)

(By the way, it seems that you’re simply attempting to put your friend’s mind at ease. the general answer to your question is: no, it isn’t sinful for your friend to have been left by his wife and divorced. Depending on the situation, it may be possible for him to marry later in the Church. Your friend should go see his parish priest, who will be able to help him figure this out, and determine the appropriate course of action…!)
 
aqu5dawk0 said:
Hi,
I need your help. I helped a dear friend return to the Church in which he was baptized, and now he has met with a great personal tragedy. When he was a militant atheist , he met and married an unbaptized atheist in a purely civil ceremony in Europe. Now, she is divorcing him and it seems pretty final. Today he asked me if it was a sin for him to be divorced and if he remarried later, would the Church allow it. I doubt he is committing a sin just because someone divorces him in a civil court, but I do not know if the Church will allow him to remarry at a later date. Can anyone shed any light on his situation? At least he has no kids but it is still quite a blow for him. I only hope his faith doesn’t suffer.
Click to expand...
Your friend needs to sit down with his priest and lay out all the facts. There have already been a wide variety of inaccurate answers on this thread.

If these are the facts:
  1. He is and was a baptized Catholic at the time of the civil marriage
  2. He did not marry in the Catholic form or receive permission to marry outside form (i.e. he did not receive the required dispensations from the bishop to marry the atheist in a civil cerermony)
  3. He never convalidated the marriage in the Church
Then the following is also true:
  1. Neither the Pauline nor Petrine Privilege applies in this case, so forget what those posts have said. They perhaps misunderstood the original post thinking it was two unbaptized atheists who married.
  2. He was not validly married to this woman
  3. He can work with his priest to do whatever paperwork might be required in his diocese to prove a “lack of form” marriage
  4. He should go to confession regarding his being away from the Church, marrying outside the Church and whatever else he may have need of reconciling
  5. He would be able to marry in the Church because his first attempt at marriage is invalid.
His first and best solution is to simply make an appointment with his priest and go from there.
 
1ke said:
Your friend needs to sit down with his priest and lay out all the facts. There have already been a wide variety of inaccurate answers on this thread.

If these are the facts:
  1. He is and was a baptized Catholic at the time of the civil marriage
  2. He did not marry in the Catholic form or receive permission to marry outside form (i.e. he did not receive the required dispensations from the bishop to marry the atheist in a civil cerermony)
  3. He never convalidated the marriage in the Church
Then the following is also true:
  1. Neither the Pauline nor Petrine Privilege applies in this case, so forget what those posts have said. They perhaps misunderstood the original post thinking it was two unbaptized atheists who married.
  2. He was not validly married to this woman
  3. He can work with his priest to do whatever paperwork might be required in his diocese to prove a “lack of form” marriage
  4. He should go to confession regarding his being away from the Church, marrying outside the Church and whatever else he may have need of reconciling
  5. He would be able to marry in the Church because his first attempt at marriage is invalid.
His first and best solution is to simply make an appointment with his priest and go from there.
Click to expand...
This.
/thread
 
aqu5dawk0 said:
Hi,
I need your help. I helped a dear friend return to the Church in which he was baptized, and now he has met with a great personal tragedy. When he was a militant atheist , he met and married an unbaptized atheist in a purely civil ceremony in Europe. Now, she is divorcing him and it seems pretty final. Today he asked me if it was a sin for him to be divorced and if he remarried later, would the Church allow it. I doubt he is committing a sin just because someone divorces him in a civil court, but I do not know if the Church will allow him to remarry at a later date. Can anyone shed any light on his situation? At least he has no kids but it is still quite a blow for him. I only hope his faith doesn’t suffer.
Click to expand...
I won’t address your friend’s situation because everyone else has already recommended that he see his priest immediately, but please help him now, to stay close to God through his troubles. Remind him to go to Adoration, to receive the sacraments, and to pray. Pray for him, and let him know that you are. If he doesn’t have a rosary, give him one and teach him how to pray it. If you are close in location to him, go to church with him. I’m sure you feel almost responsible for his return to the Church but remember, it was the Holy Spirit who drew him home.
 
TheRealJuliane said:
I won’t address your friend’s situation because everyone else has already recommended that he see his priest immediately, but please help him now, to stay close to God through his troubles. Remind him to go to Adoration, to receive the sacraments, and to pray. Pray for him, and let him know that you are. If he doesn’t have a rosary, give him one and teach him how to pray it. If you are close in location to him, go to church with him. I’m sure you feel almost responsible for his return to the Church but remember, it was the Holy Spirit who drew him home.
Click to expand...
Thank you. Naturally I claim no credit for the grace he was given, because only God gives this gift, However, I do feel somewhat responsible for him, since he has been my friend since childhood. I will try to help him through this, and I pray that God will comfort him.
 
My friends- I thank you for your help. I spoke with him this afternoon, and I believe that God is comforting him. I spent some time discussing it with him and I think the following details may also be relevant from an annulment point of view:
  • he was baptized a Catholic when he was a baby, but never sought the permission of the Bishop to marry outside the Church.
  • he also said that from the start they did not intend to have children, and conducted their sex life in a way that deliberately avoided conception.
  • at the time of marriage, he was an atheist who believed in divorce and who believed that marriage was not necessarily a lifelong committment, and she was of a similar opinion. That being the case, I doubt that there was a true intention to marry.
I will refer him to his priest, and hopefully he can be helped. .
 
You are going to get a lot of different answers because there just isn’t enough information. He needs to speak to his priest and start the proceedings for a decree of nullity once the divorce is finalized.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top