Do Catholic Teachings On Predestination Logically Conclude with OSAS?

[EricFilmer]

What I am hearing here sounds like you believe God saves you initially and then you have to use your own will power to persevere? Some kind of “survival of the fittest” theology? This is something I am unclear on in Catholic theology.

I don’t think Catholic teachings can be considered a type of “survival of the fittest” because it involves having freewill and responding to God’s grace. In this case, we are all equally free and can be equally saved. But in any event, although I appreciate your comments, I think it is safe to say that this thread topic has been sufficiently answered. If you would like to examine Catholic teachings concerning salvation and/or predestination in more detail, it would probably be better to start a new thread discussion. This would not only be forum policy, but would also probably attract a greater degree of participation.

 

[Truthstalker]

I don’t think Catholic teachings can be considered a type of “survival of the fittest” because it involves having freewill and responding to God’s grace. In this case, we are all equally free and can be equally saved. But in any event, although I appreciate your comments, I think it is safe to say that this thread topic has been sufficiently answered. If you would like to examine Catholic teachings concerning salvation and/or predestination in more detail, it would probably be better to start a new thread discussion. This would not only be forum policy, but would also probably attract a greater degree of participation.

Eric,

Good post and idea. Let me think about whether I really want to go any further than this now.

 

[PJM]

But you cited Paul who said it is ***God’s will ***to have all men to be saved. Paul is speaking only of God’s will here

POST #35

=William C;9778595]But you cited Paul who said it is ***God’s will ***to have all men to be saved. Paul is speaking only of God’s will here.

So you really haven’t answered by question. If it’s God’s will to have all men to be saved, then why aren’t they saved? Is God’s will weak and unable to bring what He wills to have happen?

THAT DEAR FRIEND IS THE RIGHT QUESTION ASK AND please LISTEN TO THE CORRECT ANSWER

These few bible passages explain it and I will briefly expand on them:

Gen.1:26-27 " And he [GOD] said: Let us make man to our image and likeness: and let him have dominion over the fishes of the sea, and the fowls of the air, and the beasts, and the whole earth, and every creeping creature that moveth upon the earth. And God created man to his own image: to the image of God he created him: male and female he created them.

AND THIS EXPLAINS WHY GOD CHOOSE TO DO THIS:

Isa.43 Verses 7 and 21: “every one who is called by my name,** whom I created for my glory**, whom I formed and made." AND the people whom I formed for myself that they might declare my praise.”

The answer William is that by God’s PLAN [Will] and design He has given to all humanity a POWER EQUAL to His own. OUR FEEWILL cannot be violated by God who is Perfect, or God could / would no longer be a “perfect-God.” And that is the answer to your question.

God can do ANY [EVERY] “Good Thing”. So it’s not a matter of “can God do this; NO! It’s a matter of God choosing NOT to do it and violate His GIFT of our FREEWILL.

We; humanity alone have the ability to 1. know God. 2. too freely choose to love and OBEY Him or 3. NOT too. Similar to God in essence [not degree] humanity alone is Given by God, the Spiritual GIFTS of a mind, intellect and FREEWILL. So we can freely choose to love God. This is how “we emulate God”.

Chesterson is wrong. It must be that as an ordinary man he was suffering from stereoscopic spiritual sight when he wrote that.

You see, predestination by God isn’t fate, but a purposeful decree according to the will of the God of the universe. (Please, don’t give me a dictionary definition.)

ACTUALLY “C” IS RIGHT AND SO IS YOUR DEFINATION. THE ERROR YOU MAKE IN NOT UNDERSTANDING GOD AND GOD’S DIVINE AND PERFECT WILL.

Like many Protestants you confuse what God COULD choose to do and what GOD ACTUALLY DID CHOOSE TO DO.

Predestination VIOLATES and would make invalid both God’s “Perfect Nature” and humanities Spiritual Gifts of mind, intellect and FREEWILL. This is an impossibility for God and for humanity. God can’t give and then change His mind and take back our God given ability to choose our eternity: Ecclesiasticus 15:18 “Before man is life and death, good and evil, that which he shall choose shall be given him”

My FRIEND, YOUR LACK OF UNDERSTANDING IS IN NEED OF GOD’S GRACE AND HELP.

As for God Not “saying anything about Grace.” FOOEY. Christ Instituted the Seven Sacraments precisely for this very purpose. Luke 4:22 “And all gave testimony to him: and they wondered at the words of grace that proceeded from his mouth, and they said: Is not this the son of Joseph?”

May God grant you His Understanding,
Pat /PJM