Do Catholics Hate the Bible?

[Church_Militant]

Hate the Bible? You’re kiddin’ right?

drbo.org/catechism.htm#lesson15

“A partial indulgence is granted to the faithful, who with the veneration due to the divine word make a spiritual reading from Sacred Scripture. A plenary indulgence is granted, if this reading is continued for at least one half an hour.” (Enchiridion of Indulgences. Authorized English edition. 1969. Catholic Book Publishers. New York. Page 68. # 50)

 

[lak611]

Hate the Bible? You’re kiddin’ right?

drbo.org/catechism.htm#lesson15

“A partial indulgence is granted to the faithful, who with the veneration due to the divine word make a spiritual reading from Sacred Scripture. A plenary indulgence is granted, if this reading is continued for at least one half an hour.” (Enchiridion of Indulgences. Authorized English edition. 1969. Catholic Book Publishers. New York. Page 68. # 50)

Great post! Obviously, if the Catholic Church “hated” the Bible, she would not grant indulgences to her faithful for reading it. There is no separating Scripture and Tradition. Both are God-given, and there is no contradiction between them. :bible1:

 

[GoldenArrow]

Do Catholics Hate the Bible?

That’s a silly question because The Catholic Church gave us the Bible. In 400 AD Christ’s Authoritative source on Earth, The Catholic Church, sifted through all the Christian writings of the time. A Church council determined which books were inspired, giving birth to The Bible in 400 AD.

Many non-Catholic Christians believe the Catholic Church to be an Apostate Church, yet, they ascribe with great fervor to the principle of Sola Scriptura. This, too, is silly, because if an Apostate Church canonized your Bible, you have to throw out the Bible, too.

A fallible source cannot declare something to be infallible. And the Bible cannot declare itself infallible, because using this illogical circular reasoning, the Book of Mormon and the Koran are also inspired (because they declare themselves so). You cannot use this premise for this reason.

So why do Catholics believe the Bible is inspired? Because an Authoritative Source, the Catholic Church, declared it so in 400 AD.

If it weren’t for the Catholic Church, you would have no New Testament!

God Bless!

 

[mdstanzel]

Scott Hahn has an interesting observation about the “use” of the Written Word by protestants and by Catholics.

He compared it to a postman(woman). who has his route laid out for him, and who can, at any time, quote you the verses (names and addresses) on his route… probably in any order you choose.

Yet the very people who live on that route, and whose names the postman can quote… those people won’t know the address…

But here is the big difference.

Those people… know the people/families who live in those homes by them, not their address.

The postman, with all his memorizing, does not know the families in those houses.

Catholics often know the Bible much more than they give themselves credit for… the concept of the Truth is engrained… not the chapter and verse.

Protestants are missing out … they may love the Scriptures, but they don’t have access to what real power is in those words.

.

Absolutely the best analogy I’ve seen. Some times we think we have to fly to Switzerland to build a clock. As commendable for everyone to attempt explaining that the solo scriptura is wrong, the answer is simple. I love Scott Hahn’s analogies. He sounds like me when I for many seemingly good reasons left the Church to seek truth about solo scriptura with an early Church restoration movement about 100 years old. I saw for myself the severity of isolating scriptures from one same name church to the next. Now I so embarrassed about my journey, but I learned a valuable lesson that haunted me for so long prior to my defection. The root of my problem is that my father married not only a non-denominational Protestant, but he married into a very anti-Catholic family that made it their intensions at times to build on my doubts.

Well the Lord blessed me and let me depart from truth. In my heart I believed that there was more to this bible only thing. I’ve learned scripture very well in comparison to most Catholics. But I struggled over the obvious attempts to pass over scriptures that dealt with “tradition”. I kept getting the Tradition mixed up with traditionn of men. This alone should be the Church’s motivation to help encourage and build Catholic “bible” classes that falls in line with Catholic teaching. It’s wonderful that we get to listen to scripture in Mass. But we can’t stop Mass by raising our hands and say Preacher what does this mean. So we need to begin by building our Catholic Univesities up to provide us will hand picked Adult and Youth Faith Formation Directors. My goodness, many of the protestants do it, why can’t we? But these Directors need to fall under the guideance of the Church. That would be for the USCCB to decide. But they have to get off their duffs before the Church loses more Catholics to the errors of men. I understand the need to work slowly under the guidance of the Holy Spirit, but IM-errored-O I “feel”/believe that this problem has existed for several hundred years now and the Church has an obligation to finally make a decission to save us from the snares set for us by well meaning Protestants.

Breath!

My wife is very knowledgable about the bible. However, she noticed how leaders in her church ignored or twisted scripture to mean something different than what was actually said. Too long to get into hear. But know this for those Catholics, our priest said that the church needs people like my wife to help bring back the Church and get Catholics more comfortable with the scripture. I will post below part of an email that was sent and mark out names.

I am sorry that you are having such a difficult time with our Catholic discussion group. Well, thank you for all your reflections below. I hear/see them and appreciate them. Actually, I don’t think that you are having trouble with our book discussion group. I think that you are experiencing the heartfelt struggles of other people of faith and those struggles are impacting the arena of your own journey.

Thank you for your call today. You did not leave a number so I am emailing you. I am praying for peace in your heart. The Catholics in our book discussion group were raising all kinds of concerns and issues in light of what we were reading from Fr. John Dear in his book, Jesus the Rebel. Those folks would be the last ones to ever leave the Catholic faith. I think it is because of their strong faith that they feel comfortable enough to raise the issues.

I grant you that most Catholics need, desperately, to pick up their Bibles and begin to prayerfully read them. In some cases, they first must go out and purchase a Bible. One of your blessings which you bring to the Catholic Church is your love for and understanding of the Sacred Scripture. You can be a strong, positive influence on ‘cradle’ Catholics as you continue to journey into the fulness of the Church and life in Christ by encouraging people in Scripture reading and study.

I hope that you will continue to be a part of the Book discussion group. Be patient with us and encourage us.

 

[mdstanzel]

This was in reply to the following message:

Father [Assistant Pastor]:

I must confess, I am hyper-critical and judgmental. [A quote from the Assistant Pastor during a Homily] There was so much I could have said last night [at a parish book club meeting], but after about an hour into the group discussion, I was so confused and could not think clearly. I left thinking, what am I doing? Converting to Catholicism is going to cut me off from my family and I am leaving Protestantism for what?

After driving aimlessly around [cityname] and then coming home and discussing it with me], here is what I came up with. Please correct me if I am wrong. I sincerely mean that, because I really am trying to do what is right, but sometimes it is confusing. If you cannot understand any of this, please realize, it is 4 a.m. and I am not communicating well.

1.  I wish Catholics could realize how rich their religion is.  There was a lot of talk of solo scriptura and how silly some of the traditions of the Catholic Church seem.  I wish the people that felt that way would just go to a protestant church and experience it.  They would find that they are not missing out on anything, but the fact is that Protestants are missing out on so much grace.  Even the grace centered churches do not have the grace and spirit of the Catholic Church.  Solo scriptura involves rejecting apostolic succession and traditional church teachings, which leads to a struggle for power.  This power struggle leads to judgmental attitudes, new creeds, and lots of divisions.  Protestant churches divide constantly and leave members broken hearted.  In the midst of the turmoil, they kill their own.  It may look like they are a group that loves each other and is out to do good works (which is truly their intention), but without following the Bible AND the traditions of how the church is to be organized, they fall way short. [Another cradle Catholic moaning and groaning about all the writings and re-writings of the Church about the same issues. He said the Protestants have it right with solo scriptura and went on to complain about scapulars and other Catholic practices.]

1.  There are things a whole lot worse than going to public schools.  If you have 7 kids and can afford to shelter, feed and clothe them, then praise God!  You are truly blest! [Catholic woman was complaining that she could afford to send her 6 children but not the 7th one on the way and said the Church needs to flip the bill because the Church makes them have the kids.]

1.  We are not called to give out of our excess, but to give out of our poverty.  [Another cradle Catholic complaining that her father took care of family to send them to college before giving to the Church acting like she was from a poor family from another country.  My wife had to make her own way while living at home in the very poor part of town with the University being 1 block from her house in a poor city.]

1.  The mentally ill are to be viewed as a suffering image of Christ, not someone to be locked away because they make us uncomfortable.  Many people struggling with mental illness can live very productive lives, given the right medication.  It may seem like the “lights are on, but nobody is home”, but that is a person made in God’s image. [Another older cradle Catholic complaining about the homeless people that are mentally ill and other stuff like this.  Her father used to give from His poverty as an Elder/Bishop in their church.]

I really like the group [She’s being nice] and I know that everybody is well-meaning. I was trying to find the root of my racing thoughts. A lot of things said hit really close to home. I was raised in extreme poverty. My parents raised 8 children in a 2 bedroom house. Our pantry and refrigerator were seldom well stocked. My dad worked day and night and still could not afford to send us to college, but we were blest in so many ways. And we helped others. We were a second home to many men serving in the military. Our dinner table was always open to guests. I have hit rock bottom financially, mentally and spiritually and I feel truly blest.

So back to the original question of what am I doing? I am working my way to the Eucharist where I can experience the fullness of Christ and pray that others will realize how wonderful their Church truly is.

Thanks for listening. I know you are very busy. I also know that Priests are worse enemies of Satan than I am, and I know the struggles I have. Your struggles must be great. I pray for you and Father XXX everyday.

Thanks for listening.

 

[mdstanzel]

Sorry about the length of my post but it woke me up early this morning and I had to get it off of my mind.

It’s important to know that she’s a Candidate at this point and understand the teachings of the Church better than most Catholics, which is sad. But it is her knowledge of scriptures that has helped her in this journey. She did this while I resisted returning to this chaos. Our Faith Formation Director confirms our Assistant Paster. He says that the Church needs knowledgeable people to help inspire and maybe even save the Church from the times during the 60’ and 70" where the Church failed all these people. There are many other Catholics in leadership that say the same thing. I just hope they realize that we are only men and women and that anybody can learn scripture if they just take the time to buy a bible and read it in prayer without thinking they can get all of their answers in the bilble only.

 

[MrS]

If there was anything or anyone truly deserving of prayer, they are all the people in your posts.

Thanks for sharing and may I suggest the Douey with the Haydock commentary as a Bible to love.??

.

 

[Eireann]

Yes ! and you won’t get to Heaven if you don’t read the Bible, I remember reading that in the Bible somewhere, can’t find the verse at the minute. anyone ?

Anyway how did they manage without a Bible for somewhat 400 years ?

 

[guanophore]

Yes ! and you won’t get to Heaven if you don’t read the Bible, I remember reading that in the Bible somewhere, can’t find the verse at the minute. anyone ?

Anyway how did they manage without a Bible for somewhat 400 years ?

I think it is part of that SS tradition (though THEY would never consider it a tradition!) that the book is the be all and end all of every revelation. Didn’ t the same John that wrote these words write that there were many other things that Jesus said and did that were not written? Rev 22:18-19

18 I warn every one who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if any one adds to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book, 19 and if any one takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God will take away his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book.

 

[Eireann]

I think it is part of that SS tradition (though THEY would never consider it a tradition!) that the book is the be all and end all of every revelation. Didn’ t the same John that wrote these words write that there were many other things that Jesus said and did that were not written? Rev 22:18-19

18 I warn every one who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if any one adds to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book, 19 and if any one takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God will take away his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book.

Well yes read those words and originally thought they meant the entire Bible, but I think it only means REV:

 

[GregoryPalamas]

This is similar to the thread I started titled “Why do non-Catholics try to use the Scriptures against the Church?” I think many non-Catholics not only try to use the Scriptures against the Church but try to use it against any idea of Church at all. But I guess that’s another subject.

Let me state this: I believe that all the divisions in the Church and all those that caused the rise of new groups which sometimes call themselves “churches” is a shame and an offense to God. I believe Luther was well intended about some things and even correct to call for change but he was simply a heretic in others. I’m thankful for the occassional sit downs we have with the Orthodox and with some Protestant groups. I believe some positive things have happened because of them. I believe we and the Orthodox are extremely close and pray for the day when reunion finally comes. It will in heaven but I wish it would happen now. I believe there are many things we share with several non-Catholic “protestant” groups. I pray that reunion will come some day with some of the groups. The biggest difference between the Church and most Protestant groups is in the area of Christ’s incarnation. In most cases Protestants seem to deny it impact upon humanity. I would like to think that the difference is more appearence than reality but I see much evidence that most Protestants think of Jesus’ Incarnation as having little or no impact upon anything. It was a nice visit once a long time ago and some day He will come back but He’s not here now and humanity has changed because of His little visit. At least that is the impression I get.

Catholics get their cues about the Incarnation both from the Scriptures and upon experience, reflection, and Church teaching. I wonder where the non-Catholics get their Incarnation denying ideas from?

CDL

 

[Cat]

The Bible without the Church is dangerous.

My husband and I were faithful, active evangelical Protestants all our lives, over forty years. We were involved in many ministries, including many children’s, youth, and music ministries.

A woman pastor in our E Free church began spreading lies about us. It was later revealed that she had some problems; she was eventually caught in one of her lies and fired from that church.

But at the time she was attacking us, she was still accepted as a truthful person.

We tried to defend ourselves, but she twisted everything we said to make us look like liars. (She was good, really good at this.) Others believed her, not us, in spite of our years of good service to this and other evangelical churches.

A tribunal was formed, and my husband and I were tried. The BIBLE was used to justify the cruel and capricious treatment that we received from the pastors and deacons on that tribunal.

We were ousted from the church–again, the Bible was used to justify this.

And we were shunned–because the Bible directed them to shun us.

It was a terrible time in our lives. Both of our daughters rejected church from then on. Only recently has our older daughter made a decision to enter the Catholic Church, although she is still stalling. And our younger daughter has stated that she should become Catholic, but she has taken no steps.

They are scared, and I don’t blame them. I ask the Blessed Mother to pray for them and I believe Our Lord treats them gently, as they were hurt by those who claimed to be His pastors.

The Lord used these awful events to lead us into the Catholic Church. So we are grateful now.

My point is, the pastors and deacons in that Protestant evangelical church twisted the Bible, took verses out of context, and interpreted passages of Scripture out of context in order to justify what they did to us.

For a year after the ousting, I would not read the Bible. I was afraid I would misinterpret it and do evil things like they did.

As I learned more about Catholicism through a local apologetics class, I eventually took my Bible before the Blessed Sacrament and read it, knowing that the Lord and His Church would guide me into truth.

Our incident was bad. But there have been many more twistings of Scriptures by sola Scripture ** advocates through the years. How about those who use the Scriptures to justify racism? Or killing homosexuals? Or abusing spouses and children? Or war? Or peace? Or not taking medicine/refusing blood transfusions? Or shunning? Or… the list goes on.

Christ clearly established the CHURCH to interpret the Scriptures with the help of the Holy Spirit. By itself, the Bible is a dangerous book.

 

[guanophore]

Catholics get their cues about the Incarnation both from the Scriptures and upon experience, reflection, and Church teaching. I wonder where the non-Catholics get their Incarnation denying ideas from?

CDL

This might make an interesting thread, but off topic here.

 

[GregoryPalamas]

Cat,

My heart goes out to you. I’m so glad that the Lord has led us out of Protestantism into His Church. I pray that your children find the same joy and truth that you have found.

guanophore,

You are correct on both of your observations.

CDL