Do Catholics support a pluralistic society?

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I have heard arguments that the Vatican only did that so that they could oppose the Soviet Union’s suppression of religion without being obviously hypocritical.
Of course, we would like everyone to be Catholic. But forced faith is not faith. And even having a Catholic country is not a panacea for peace. Remember? All of Europe was Catholic for centuries and people still squabbled (and worse). Not all those people were saved.

But what we really want is for overt evil to not exist. We want to legislate for the powerless. And as was said, what exactly to outlaw is the debate. Then, it is our hope, that along that road, all people eventually see the truth of Jesus Christ.

Gem
 
On the other hand, if you were so inclined, you could do what the Moslems do in many countries with sharia law and establish a civil law based on the CCC, then contract to arbitrate civil disputes among you. Arbitration awards should be enforceable by any regular court. You could have a Catholic enclave established on Catholic-based civil laws.
That’s an interesting idea. Orthodox Jewish communities come to mind as well. Strangely, Catholics, outside of monastic communities, don’t seem to do this (barring certain cults that pop up). Maybe it’s part of that balance to be “in the world” but not “of it”. But whether such arbitrated communities existed or not, I think justice would still demand that we work for the public good.
 
I’m not sure how most American Catholics feel, but I have come across Catholics on this board that support the ‘biding their time’ approach.
Well see, that’s what I’m wondering…

If a Catholic was given omnipotent powers for a day, would they be expected to rewrite our laws to conform to Catholic morality, bringing everyone… Aetheist, Muslim, Wiccan, Buddhist, etc… under the same Catholic-based moral code? Outlaw sex outside of marriage, criminilize homosexual acts, convict pagans of devil-worship and so on?

Or is preaching and teaching enough?
 
Well see, that’s what I’m wondering…

If a Catholic was given omnipotent powers for a day, would they be expected to rewrite our laws to conform to Catholic morality, bringing everyone… Aetheist, Muslim, Wiccan, Buddhist, etc… under the same Catholic-based moral code? Outlaw sex outside of marriage, criminilize homosexual acts, convict pagans of devil-worship and so on?

Or is preaching and teaching enough?
I think they would be expected to accomplish more important goals than to strip away everyone’s God-given free will…like feed the poor, clothe the naked, put a roof over every homeless, cure the ill, etc… There’s sure plenty I’d do with omnipotent powers for one day, and changing civil law isn’t one of those things. Catholics have laws, defined in the CCC. If they can’t govern their own, why should they be able to govern everyone else? Catholics have enough trouble minding the laws and rules themselves and need to follow them before trying to force others to follow them. I would think there’s plenty to fix in the world without trying to force everyone to be something they are not…
 
That’s an interesting idea. Orthodox Jewish communities come to mind as well. Strangely, Catholics, outside of monastic communities, don’t seem to do this (barring certain cults that pop up). Maybe it’s part of that balance to be “in the world” but not “of it”. But whether such arbitrated communities existed or not, I think justice would still demand that we work for the public good.
Sharia civil law … at least family law … has an opt in provision in the Philippines. There’s a sharia commercial code that US companies have to agree to at times, since arbitration awards are the easiest to enforce internationally (there’s an arbitration treaty).

I suspect you don’t see a lot of Christian arbitration because the civil laws are mostly neutral when it comes down to it. What is the CCC going to add to the UCC?
 
That’s funny. Can they be serious?
No,I don’t think so. At least, I don’t believe them for a minute. You guys have to remember that this is an online forum. It’s got a great wealth of information, but attracts all kinds, like any other online forum or website. I think they’re just trying to ruffle feathers. At least for me, I take their posts with a grain of salt and won’t believe they’re for real unless I actually meet them and they convince me themselves – which isn’t likely to happen;) Forgot who it was several weeks ago, who wanted a modern day Inquisition, whereby all non-Catholic Christians and all fallen away Catholics would be made, by force, to be Catholic and follow Catholic rules and laws. By force meant there were no limits, and included prison and corporal punishments…they wanted civil governments to participate and cooperate with the Church on this. 🤷 Please don’t think these are “Catholic sentiments” because they’re not. No way.
 
… Forgot who it was several weeks ago, who wanted a modern day Inquisition, whereby all non-Catholic Christians and all fallen away Catholics would be made, by force, to be Catholic and follow Catholic rules and laws. By force meant there were no limits, and included prison and corporal punishments…they wanted civil governments to participate and cooperate with the Church on this. 🤷 Please don’t think these are “Catholic sentiments” because they’re not. No way.
No, I don’t but its an interesting glimpse into some disturbing thought.
 
Well see, that’s what I’m wondering…

If a Catholic was given omnipotent powers for a day, would they be expected to rewrite our laws to conform to Catholic morality, bringing everyone… Aetheist, Muslim, Wiccan, Buddhist, etc… under the same Catholic-based moral code? Outlaw sex outside of marriage, criminilize homosexual acts, convict pagans of devil-worship and so on?

Or is preaching and teaching enough?
God has had omnipotent powers for much longer than a day, and He has done none of that.
 
Well see, that’s what I’m wondering…

If a Catholic was given omnipotent powers for a day, would they be expected to rewrite our laws to conform to Catholic morality, bringing everyone… Aetheist, Muslim, Wiccan, Buddhist, etc… under the same Catholic-based moral code? Outlaw sex outside of marriage, criminilize homosexual acts, convict pagans of devil-worship and so on?

Or is preaching and teaching enough?
Do you mean the kind of unrestricted power that dictators have?
Or the kind of supernatural power that gods supposedly have (according to their followers)?
 
Well see, that’s what I’m wondering…

If a Catholic was given omnipotent powers for a day, would they be expected to rewrite our laws to conform to Catholic morality, bringing everyone… Aetheist, Muslim, Wiccan, Buddhist, etc… under the same Catholic-based moral code? Outlaw sex outside of marriage, criminilize homosexual acts, convict pagans of devil-worship and so on?

Or is preaching and teaching enough?
Neither.

We should participate in government. We should not make everything we think is wrong illegal. We should make some things we think are wrong illegal (murder, for example). We should not make everything we think is morally mandatory mandatory.

If I somehow legitimately got the power to change the law for a day, I’d probably go insane trying to find where the the line is. But there are some things I know off the top of my head that I would and would not do:

I would make abortion illegal, as I see it as murder.

I would not make sex outside of marriage illegal (including homosexual sex).

I would, however, make marriage strictly heterosexual with a single partner. This is not because I think the law should enforce my beliefs on sexual morality, but because I see gay marriage as the government calling moral and good that which is not. I do not want to side track the discussion here, but I want to point out that the italicized part is the type of reasoning I would follow - the idea that civil marriage is a sort of seal of approval that should not be given to that which is wrong. It’s the “a sort of seal of approval that should not be given to that which is wrong” part which is relevant here, by the way, so please don’t take this as me trying to start a debate on the morality of gay marriage (especially as the Catholic answer to that question is not subject to change anyway.)

And I would certainly not require anyone to do anything religious (or prevent religious acts because they are religious acts - some (human sacrifice) might be illegal for other reasons, but not because of the religion that motivates them), but I would remove restrictions that keep people from behaving religiously (in a way that respects others’ right to disagree) when acting in a governmental position. That is, 10 commandments in a court room is fine, but a public school teacher requiring students to agree with a certain ideology - religious or not - to earn a grade/degree/whatever is not (private school teachers shouldn’t do that either, but I personally think that shouldn’t be regulated by the government - a combination of accreditation boards, internal rules, and good ol’ free-market if-the-school-stinks-don’t-go-there stuff should be able to handle that just fine).

I have not mentioned the helping the poor style laws because I do not think there is much more to say about them. If I could make them better I would, but the moral principle (help the poor) is not the problem with those laws. They need work to be sure, but it’s not the morality that’s at issue. Many of us agree on the basic morality but disagree on the application anyway, and I get the feeling that it’s the idea about when, as opposed to how, to apply morality that we’re interested in at the moment.

In summary - all laws are based on some sort of moral-ish principle, if you’ll forgive my use of technical language there, even traffic laws - it might not be directly immoral to drive over 65 mph on a certain piece of concrete, but such a restriction is there to prevent injury and death, and the idea that we should do that is a moral-ish principle. But at the same time, not all morals should be put into law.

Which ones should and shouldn’t is an interesting debate, but as people with opinions on what the morals are (faith based or not) we all generally want to make sure that when a moral principle is somehow made into law that it is a valid moral principle. Catholics have the same interests in that as everyone else, just in some cases our moral principles are more clearly defined than those of other groups.
 
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