Do Eastern Catholics ever feel like

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Pope_Noah_I

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…they’re basically ignored by the Pope? I mean, some of us Latins are desperate for him to celebrate the EF of the Roman Rite, and the possibility of a Papal DL is basically never mentioned. The Pope is the head of the Eastern Church’s as well. He belongs to all Rites.
 
Pope_Noah_I said:
The Pope is the head of the Eastern Church’s as well. He belongs to all Rites.
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I’m not sure whether you meant to put another word after “Church’s”, or whether you meant to say “Churches”.

In any case the Pope isn’t the head of the Eastern Churches, but the heads of the Eastern Churches do recognize the Pope as the first among equals.

Hope that helps.
 
Peter_J said:
I’m not sure whether you meant to put another word after “Church’s”, or whether you meant to say “Churches”.

In any case the Pope isn’t the head of the Eastern Churches, but the heads of the Eastern Churches do recognize the Pope as the first among equals.

Hope that helps.
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The Pope is the head of the Eastern and Western Catholic Church. Of all Rites of the Catholic Church. the first among equals is an Orthodox stance.
 
Peter_J said:
I’m not sure whether you meant to put another word after “Church’s”, or whether you meant to say “Churches”.

I meant to say Churches but I was typing rather fast.

In any case the Pope isn’t the head of the Eastern Churches, but the heads of the Eastern Churches do recognize the Pope as the first among equals.

Hope that helps.
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Peter_J said:
In any case the Pope isn’t the head of the Eastern Churches, but the heads of the Eastern Churches do recognize the Pope as the first among equals.
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Patriarch Gregory is the head of the Melkite Catholic Church, Major Archbishop Lubomyr is head of the Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church … (Please note, oneGODoneCHURCH, that it’s not “Melkite Catholic Rite” and “Ukrainian Greek Catholic Rite”.)

If you don’t mind I’m going to be lazy and not enumerate the rest.

Thanks,
 
Pope_Noah_I said:
…they’re basically ignored by the Pope? I mean, some of us Latins are desperate for him to celebrate the EF of the Roman Rite, and the possibility of a Papal DL is basically never mentioned. The Pope is the head of the Eastern Church’s as well. He belongs to all Rites.
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It is absolutely unnecessary for any Pope to ever celebrate the Divine Liturgy of the East, although, con-celebration has happened I think. So no loss there.

I was under the understanding that Benedict XVI celebrated the ER of the Roman Rite privately. I forget if it was confirmed or unconfirmed.

No need to be feel ignored when he is Latin, and mostly deals with Latin issues. We have our own heads to look after our needs. So long as they all get along, I think we’ll be okay.😉

God Bless,
R.
 
Peter_J said:
Hey don’t make me come over there!

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I know that’s not the official position of the Church but it does raise an interesting point. The view of the papacy some Eastern Catholics hold isn’t that far from being acceptable to the Orthodox but the view that many Western Catholics hold, or at least seem to us to hold is far, far from something we could accept.

It’s an interesting dichotomy.

Yours in Christ
Joe
 
oneGODoneCHURCH said:
The Pope is the head of the Eastern and Western Catholic Church. Of all Rites of the Catholic Church. the first among equals is an Orthodox stance.
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You say Orthodox like it is a bad thing. 😉

I will just provide a few quotes from our Patriarch, Gregorios III (with a hat tip to Laka Ya Rabb, who provided the citation to what is in fact an excellent interview in another thread):

First there is his most famous statement:
With all due respect to the Petrine office, the office of the Patriarch is its equal.
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but then more to the point…
I am cum Petro but not sub Petro. If I were sub Petro, I would be in submission, and I couldn’t have a true frank, sincere, strong and free communion with the Pope. When you embrace a friend, you are not “below”. You embrace him from the same height, if not it wouldn’t be a true embrace. Unita manent, united things last.
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and…
There are those who want to appear as the super-Catholics, and they then insist and always only on the sub Petro and sub Roma. And so, according to me, they contradict the true sense of the papacy itself, its office to confirm the brethren in the faith.
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to answer the original question…I am occasionally bothered when the Pope makes statements that are clearly meant to address issues in the Latin Church and speaks as if the values he is championing are universal (kneeling for the Eucharist would probably be the most recent example). This only feeds the confusion on the part of many Latins that they are somehow the totality of the Body of Christ.

In other matters we wish Rome would not meddle in our affairs. Each Church ought to have its own Canons instead of lumping us all together under one code and attempting to administrate from an office in Rome.

Even more troubling, we should have complete autonomy in the election of bishops. Fortunately, this is one of the few areas in which our independence has actually decreased since V2; V2 has by and large been very good for us. Unfortunately it is an extremely crucial one which must be addressed sooner rather than later.

salaam.
 
josephdaniel29 said:
I know that’s not the official position of the Church but it does raise an interesting point. The view of the papacy some Eastern Catholics hold isn’t that far from being acceptable to the Orthodox but the view that many Western Catholics hold, or at least seem to us to hold is far, far from something we could accept.

It’s an interesting dichotomy.

Yours in Christ
Joe
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Very good point. See also Theologoumenon.
 
Badaliyyah said:
You say Orthodox like it is a bad thing. 😉

I will just provide a few quotes from our Patriarch, Gregorios III (with a hat tip to Laka Ya Rabb, who provided the citation to what is in fact an excellent interview in another thread):

First there is his most famous statement:

but then more to the point…

and…
to answer the original question…I am occasionally bothered when the Pope makes statements that are clearly meant to address issues in the Latin Church and speaks as if the values he is championing are universal (kneeling for the Eucharist would probably be the most recent example). This only feeds the confusion on the part of many Latins that they are somehow the totality of the Body of Christ.

In other matters we wish Rome would not meddle in our affairs. Each Church ought to have its own Canons instead of lumping us all together under one code and attempting to administrate from an office in Rome.

Even more troubling, we should have complete autonomy in the election of bishops. Fortunately, this is one of the few areas in which our independence has actually decreased since V2; V2 has by and large been very good for us. Unfortunately it is an extremely crucial one which must be addressed sooner rather than later.

salaam.
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I love those quotes from Patriarch Gregorios. If only our Latin brothers and sisters would try to understand. I suppose I am still technically a Latin Catholic, but I’m more Eastern (Syriac and Byzantine) in my spirituality and worship. I never understood this “submission to the Pope” idea. It almost makes him appear as a dictator to our non-Catholic brothers and sisters. And that’s something he certainly is not.

Alloho minokhoun,
Andrew
 
The Pope is the bishop of the Latin rite Diocese of Rome, as well as the head of the entire Latin Church.

His duties vis-a-vis Latins are more extensive than they are with Eastern Catholics, his duties to Roman Catholics in his own diocese are greater than they are to Latins who live outside Rome.

Popes have several titles, I don’t see why EC’s would feel ignored just because they haven’t said a liturgy in a rite they haven’t been thoroughly schooled in and aren’t even a member of.
 
Allyson said:
It is absolutely unnecessary for any Pope to ever celebrate the Divine Liturgy of the East, although, con-celebration has happened I think. So no loss there.

I was under the understanding that Benedict XVI celebrated the ER of the Roman Rite privately. I forget if it was confirmed or unconfirmed.

No need to be feel ignored when he is Latin, and mostly deals with Latin issues. We have our own heads to look after our needs. So long as they all get along, I think we’ll be okay.😉

God Bless,
R.
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In principle there’s no more reason for the Pope Benedict XVI to say a Divine Liturgy than for Major Archbishop Lubomyr to say a Latin Mass. But in practice there is. Pretty much every Eastern Catholic in the whole world is aware of the pope and the Latin Church, but there are tons of Latin Catholics who have no idea about the Eastern Catholic Churches. I think a papal divine liturgy – while in no way necessary – might do a lot of good in terms of general awareness of Eastern Catholicism.
 
Peter_J said:
In principle there’s no more reason for the Pope Benedict XVI to say a Divine Liturgy than for Major Archbishop Lubomyr to say a Latin Mass. But in practice there is. Pretty much every Eastern Catholic in the whole world is aware of the pope and the Latin Church, but there are tons of Latin Catholics who have no idea about the Eastern Catholic Churches. I think a papal divine liturgy – while in no way necessary – might do a lot of good in terms of general awareness of Eastern Catholicism.
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I agree totally. Not only the good it would do in awareness of Eastern Catholicism, but also it could more interest in discovery of all the aspects of Our Catholic Faith.
 
I wouldn’t say the pope is the “head” of the Eastern Churches. I would say that the pope is the “head” of the Latin Church. That being said, I think the “heads” aka Patriarchs of others churches must form their canons in a way consistent to what the pope or Church Universal infallibly decrees. This, however, is not subordination to the Pope but subordination to Truth.

Practically, I don’t think the pope has a right to interfere with the forming of disciplinary canons of other Churches. That being said, he is the “court of last appeal” so to speak; also, their councils they have internally should be ratified by the pope to insure they are free from error (see Constantinople I).

I think sometimes with our long histories it is hard to remember how it was/should be. The Orthodox (or a significant amount) want complete separation with absolutely no influence from the papacy. The Latins (or a significant amount) want Rome to be dominant and the pope head of all Churches. You can see how these two views are politically motivated. I believed what I outlined earlier is more to my understanding of how it was (around 400AD lets say, because internal politics of the Church have always been prevalent and there doesn’t seem to be absolute harmony on “the way it was” so to speak.)
 
Peter_J said:
In principle there’s no more reason for the Pope Benedict XVI to say a Divine Liturgy than for Major Archbishop Lubomyr to say a Latin Mass. But in practice there is. Pretty much every Eastern Catholic in the whole world is aware of the pope and the Latin Church, but there are tons of Latin Catholics who have no idea about the Eastern Catholic Churches. I think a papal divine liturgy – while in no way necessary – might do a lot of good in terms of general awareness of Eastern Catholicism.
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It is true that it would be a very sweet thing if it were to happen, and you give a very good reason. 😛
 
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