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twf
Guest
To my mind, an Eastern Catholic who prays the Prayer Rule of the Theotokos, as promoted by St Seraphim, is fulfilling Our Lady’s request that all pray the rosary.
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Margaret_Ann
Guest
I’m sure they’re magnificent (then again I’m biased because I’m Ukrainian Greek Catholic) but Our Lady did ask in all 6 of Her apparitions at Fatima to pray the Rosary and gave the Five First Saturdays devotion, and praying the Rosary is part of that devotion.Absolutely, absolutely not. I’ll even bet your devotions to the Theotokos are way more magnificent than the relatively simple Latin Rosary.
It’s not just “to your mind.” I believe it to be so, and it does not do violence to the cherished spirituality of the Eastern churches.To my mind, an Eastern Catholic who prays the Prayer Rule of the Theotokos, as promoted by St Seraphim, is fulfilling Our Lady’s request that all pray the rosary.
And then again, there’s this thing about private revelation. No one is bound to it.
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imo
Guest
I would not call the sun dancing in the sky for hundreds exactly private…
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babochka
Guest
But the Church does.I would not call the sun dancing in the sky for hundreds exactly private…
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babochka
Guest
Our Lady of Fatima asked that all pray the Rosary. But of course we are not bound by private revelations.
And this makes sense, that so many popes and saints would embrace and find efficacious a prayer that is so prevalent in the Latin tradition.… A large number of popes prayed the Rosary with a lot of devotion and several saints praised its unique effectiveness.
Our Lady was speaking to Latin Catholics (children) in the context of what they already knew. She was building upon a practice that already existed, not introducing something new. She gave a message to all, but it was in the context of Latin Catholicism. She was speaking the spiritual and theological language of those to whom she gave the revelation.But above all, Our Lady asks for the daily prayer of the Rosary specifically in Fatima. One can only imagine that She didn’t mean only for the Latin Catholics.
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DeniseNY
Guest
I do not disagree with this. The only comment I will add is that there are some complicated histories in some parishes, or in fact, some eparchies. It can become difficult, if not impossible, to remove "traditions’ that have been permitted to exist for decades.As many have said, the rosary in the East is a private devotion but should not replace the tradition of praying the hours before Divine Liturgy.
You’re not understanding the use of the term “private revelation.” Does not matter if one, hundreds, or millions saw the vision. It remains private revelation and binding on no one.I would not call the sun dancing in the sky for hundreds exactly private…
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ziapueblo
Guest
Very true!
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ZP
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dochawk
Guest
If it replaces public devotions, such as akathists or the hours, it does do violence to our spirituality.It’s not just “to your mind.” I believe it to be so, and it does not do violence to the cherished spirituality of the Eastern churches.
And in practice, that is exactly what it has done in eastern parishes in the US.
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Lysander
Guest
I am not following, is someone trying to force easteen Catholic to stop their own personal devotions. Why are people here trying to make a divide between the East and the West?
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RCIAGraduate
Guest
Isn’t there an eastern version or is that slightly offensive and rude to simplify and insinuate that?
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twf
Guest
The Prayer Rule of the Theotokos is very similar to the Rosary and in fact predates it.
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Phillip_Rolfes
Guest
This could open a can of worms, but it’s a fair question.
Is someone trying to force Eastern Catholics to stop their own personal devotions? No. But historically Eastern Catholics have been treated like second-class citizens (or worse) by many Roman Catholics… even to the point of martyrdom. Many Eastern Catholics eventually adopted the mentality that the closer they could make themselves look like Roman Catholics, the more “Catholic” they were. Sadly, this mentality was often encouraged by Rome (this is particularly true for the Maronites). It wasn’t until the 20th Century that this mentality began to change, culminating with Vatican II’s call for the Eastern Catholic Churches to shed all Latinizations and return to their historic patrimonies.
Sadly there are still many (Roman) Catholics who maintain the mentality that unless one prays the Rosary, follows Thomistic theology, reads the Baltimore Catechism and/or the Catechism of the Council of Trent, and adopts some form of Roman spirituality (preferably Carmelite spirituality), then one isn’t really Catholic.
Is someone trying to force Eastern Catholics to stop their own personal devotions? No. But historically Eastern Catholics have been treated like second-class citizens (or worse) by many Roman Catholics… even to the point of martyrdom. Many Eastern Catholics eventually adopted the mentality that the closer they could make themselves look like Roman Catholics, the more “Catholic” they were. Sadly, this mentality was often encouraged by Rome (this is particularly true for the Maronites). It wasn’t until the 20th Century that this mentality began to change, culminating with Vatican II’s call for the Eastern Catholic Churches to shed all Latinizations and return to their historic patrimonies.
Sadly there are still many (Roman) Catholics who maintain the mentality that unless one prays the Rosary, follows Thomistic theology, reads the Baltimore Catechism and/or the Catechism of the Council of Trent, and adopts some form of Roman spirituality (preferably Carmelite spirituality), then one isn’t really Catholic.
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dochawk
Guest
Historically, yes, horrific as that is.I am not following, is someone trying to force easteen Catholic to stop their own personal devotions.
- the rosary before liturgy . . . displaced the hours before liturgy
- stations of the cross . . . displaced vespers
- as a generalization, the rosary displaces the Jesus prayer
So, yes, there is very much a problem, and this is why we’re. sensitive about it.
There really shouldn’t be separate Eastern bishops in the US. There should be simply bishops, with parishes of various rite. But they abused us to the point of multiple schisms (both ACROD and OCA were proximately caused by pig-headed RC bishops abusing Ecstatics . . .), and the Pope first sent a couple of traveling bishops, and then raised hierarchies, to the point that the Pittsburgh Metropolia is a sui juris church.
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XXI_4
Guest
Bishop John Ireland, founder of the OCA.OCA were proximately caused by pig-headed RC bishops
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dochawk
Guest
I try to avoid using his name, that it may be forgotten . . .
And same story, different priest and bishop, for ACROD, which broke off have of what was left of us after the OCA . . .
And same story, different priest and bishop, for ACROD, which broke off have of what was left of us after the OCA . . .
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Lysander
Guest
I agree that there has been mistreatment in the past (some still do it today). Think the largest problem (at least in USA) is that the average lay latin rite catholic doesn’t know mush about the eastern rites.
On people pushing Thomistic, rosary, Baltimore Catechism, etc. I and a decent percentage of people talking about that are not directing it to the Eastern Rites but to the fellow latin rite catholics who don’t know about them. In the late 1960 and early 1970. There was a push to stop saying the rosary, stop any personal devotion (saints, Franisican Crown, Blessed Sacrament Chaplet, etc). And labeling people that did as foolish. Now the jems in the latin rite are being brought back up. In the latin rite some are still being raised that rosaries and chaplet are juat jewely and have no real use. I hope this helps.
We shouldn’t be “pitting” traditions against eachother. We should talk about the jems both have and how we can both use them.
On people pushing Thomistic, rosary, Baltimore Catechism, etc. I and a decent percentage of people talking about that are not directing it to the Eastern Rites but to the fellow latin rite catholics who don’t know about them. In the late 1960 and early 1970. There was a push to stop saying the rosary, stop any personal devotion (saints, Franisican Crown, Blessed Sacrament Chaplet, etc). And labeling people that did as foolish. Now the jems in the latin rite are being brought back up. In the latin rite some are still being raised that rosaries and chaplet are juat jewely and have no real use. I hope this helps.
We shouldn’t be “pitting” traditions against eachother. We should talk about the jems both have and how we can both use them.
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