Do gods have reason and purpose?

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I think stories about gods have reason and purpose. These shared stories are part of the larger knowledge we share called culture. Culture is what binds us together.

But I don’t think gods have purpose anymore than the universe has purpose.

Your thoughts?
 
C.S. Lewis referred to pagan stories about gods ‘good dreams’. A sort of private revelation about the true God who was known by the Jews, and became incarnate in Jesus Christ. After Christ rose again and ascended, the Church would send missionaries to lead these pagans to the truth.

In the Acts of the Apostles, St. Paul goes to Mars Hill, in Athens. He sees an altar dedicated to “The Unknown God”. He tells the Greeks, “What therefor you worship without knowing it, that I preach to you.” (Acts 17:23)
 
I think stories about gods have reason and purpose. These shared stories are part of the larger knowledge we share called culture. Culture is what binds us together.

But I don’t think gods have purpose anymore than the universe has purpose.

Your thoughts?
Perhaps gods have purpose but it is a very narrow purpose. Not in line with the other gods or the universe. For example, in Native American spirituality and other polytheistic religions, gods often have a pretty narrow scope of interest. The Zuni fetish gods for example. They aren’t involved on a universal level. 🤷
 
Perhaps gods have purpose but it is a very narrow purpose. Not in line with the other gods or the universe. For example, in Native American spirituality and other polytheistic religions, gods often have a pretty narrow scope of interest. The Zuni fetish gods for example. They aren’t involved on a universal level. 🤷
Hey Swan, thanks for the response!

Are you saying that a universe gives a god purpose? That does seem to be how it works for the majority of believers.

Or do you think this is something that believers simply do not think about? Is that why there are so few responses?

Or is it that believers simply accept that gods have no purpose or reason to exist, anymore than I need that the universe has purpose or reason to exist?
 
Hey Swan, thanks for the response!

Are you saying that a universe gives a god purpose? That does seem to be how it works for the majority of believers.

Or do you think this is something that believers simply do not think about? Is that why there are so few responses?

Or is it that believers simply accept that gods have no purpose or reason to exist, anymore than I need that the universe has purpose or reason to exist?
I think that since believers tend to view mankind as the “center of the universe” so to speak, the belief that God’s purpose is tied up in mankind’s salvation follows naturally to them - thus they don’t tend to question it as it would be a defacto questioning of their entire belief system. I’ve been there myself, what can I say? It’s a scary question for a lot of folks. Since I realize that I don’t “know” in the definitive sense of the word, this isn’t an issue for me. You’ll notice I use the word “perhaps” a lot.

I do think that Deists might agree with the idea that god has no purpose because they don’t believe in god that is involved in the world (post creation).

It is, however, a very good question and one I’m going to ponder. It is, I think, impossible for us as humans, with our limited capacity, to imagine the mind of a god (even a minor one); therefore we tend to project our own beliefs onto our idea of god/gods. “Why would god do this?” becomes, in at least a limited way “why would I do this?”.
 
more…

I think it is interesting when we look at all the stories about various gods in different cultures that the one thing all seem to have is a creation story - of course, this is very easy to understand as people naturally seek an answer to the “how did we get here” and “who made this place” questions. However, the gods themselves vary widely. I’m thinking of the Alaskan Tglinket (sp?) tribal story of the raven and the sun. The gods purpose is not to provide something for man - as in the Judeo/Christian creation story. These gods often seem very caught up in their own “lives” and rivalries - again, though, this could very well be a transferrance of human characteristics onto those of a god.
 
Great fundamental question. I’d have to agree with the thoughts so far on this thread (e.g. 'that gods explain the creation of the universe).
  1. If we presume First Cause, then God existed before the creation of the universe.
    However, is God the ‘master creator’, or does God have reason? These are much more difficult to answer. (apart from world religion’s answers).
Here is an addendum to your question: Why would a God rational enough to create a universe with physical laws, also create a world of ‘His beloved children’ that is full of suffering & pain?

The answer to this question lies with Spinoza. God may exist, however, God has no interest in the day to day affairs of the human race. A hurricane may slam into a major American city and kill over 1,000 people, however God-- whom created the people and the planet that this drama is occuring-- is really nothing but a spectator.

Now, this question does not answer if God loves humanity. This may or may not be true. What it can do, though, is lead us into the question of the amount of power that God has in the universe.

Thomas Aquinas, a great Doctor of the Church, has different views on the nature of God & the universe-- which I also enjoy, but to limit this post to something that does not look like a doctoral thesis, I need to stop now.
 
What “gods” …how did you get past one? There is only one infinite god as I see it which all things man-ifested from, as point of course “In the imagine of God” not which one.

But of course the subject of gods in history is interesting to some, but nonetheless there is one true source all things came from, even your gods 😃 🙂
 
The idea of God’s reasons and purposes changes over time, even in such apostolic traditions such as Catholicism, or the Orthodox, for that matter. 800 years ago the popes believed God’s will was to launch a number of military expeditions into the middle east. Probably not the best idea, but, that was the thinking then.

Today, some Christians believe that God’s purpose is to act as a type of cosmic Santa Claus-- a diety that showers down new televisions and automobiles if a person simply prays & loves God enough. I don’t particularily buy into this brand of consumerist Christianity, but, it’s popular in the US.
 
I think stories about gods have reason and purpose. These shared stories are part of the larger knowledge we share called culture. Culture is what binds us together.

But I don’t think gods have purpose anymore than the universe has purpose.

Your thoughts?

That the universe is not centred around man, but around Christ, & that the purpose of all existence is centred on Him - He is what all created being is for, He is the “point of it all”.​

Evolution is useful here: if the universe comes from Him, & includes whatever is created, &** if** the Incarnation involved assuming the whole course of evolution, then other gods & cultures are included in Him. Which means that faith in Him is not parochial, as sometimes it is said to be.
 
I think stories about gods have reason and purpose. These shared stories are part of the larger knowledge we share called culture. Culture is what binds us together.
Agreed. They were humanity’s attempts to explain and understand the world around them.
But I don’t think gods have purpose anymore…
Well, Captain Kirk would agree… In the episode “Who Mourns for Adonais”; Kirk informs Apollo that humanity has outgrown the many gods and “finds the one God quite sufficient.” 😛
anymore than the universe has purpose.
The universe has a purpose we just haven’t figured it out… yet…
 
I think stories about gods have reason and purpose. These shared stories are part of the larger knowledge we share called culture. Culture is what binds us together.

But I don’t think gods have purpose anymore than the universe has purpose.

Your thoughts?
I’m not sure I understand the question, but here goes.
“Stories about gods”. If we’re talking about Apollo and Odin and those guys, then doubtless there is a cultural element to them; a means of underscoring life lessons and wisdoms that could be considered entirely human in origin. On the other hand, one could believe that the stories of the gods represent “intimations of Divinity” that are inherent in humans and have an outside source. What precedes what? Do people develop theologies and moralities because they intuit them then attribute them to gods, or do people find certain things successful, then create gods to give more authority to the precepts? The latter would be a cultural explanation. The former would be something else entirely; perhaps something we cannot explain in a natural way.

I’m not too familiar with mythology, but at one time I became very interested in Zeus as represented in the Iliad. Somtimes, he is just a very powerful guy, definitely not worthy of admiration, let alone adoration. Sometimes, he is a “principle”; something very much like an Aristotelian “first cause”. Sometimes he is something very close to the Supreme Being, not terribly distant from the Judeo-Christian God. In reading the Iliad, one can assume either that the thuggish version of Zeus is meant as a convenient “Deux ex machina”, and everybody knew it (rather like the witches in Macbeth) or that this version was for the consumption of the “goundlings” whose ignorance made them capable of understanding deity only in this way. The other portraits of Zeus in the Iliad; the ones in which he really does seem worthy of adoration, seem perhaps to appeal to a more thinking group (and, yes, truly religious ones). Those portraits, it seems to me, seem to arise from “intimations of Divinity”; something Christians might think of as a product of grace. But for sure, the portraits of Zeus in the Iliad are absolutely not consistent, and few listeners could have been unaware of that. As a purely cultural device, it would have failed miserably. As a combination of a dramatic device and a very complex, “intuitive” concept that would have doubtful “cultural utility” in the culture in which it was introduced, it works. Others might think differently about the following, but I do think the clever Tom Wolfe touched on this in his otherwise hilarious portrait of the “Zeus Revival” in “Bonfire of the Vanities”. In the absence of any real knowledge of the Judeo-Christian God, people still “find” Him, even if only in Zeus, because something in earnest souls points them toward it, like a magnet to true North.

If I understand the second statement you made, it seems an irrelevant concern. If there is anything like the Judeo-Christian God, He is his own purpose. Your statement seems to suggest an extrinsic purpose, which would imply yet another, greater Being giving Him purpose, in which case the “targeted” or “perceived” or “posited” God would not be God at all, but a very powerful creature of perhaps the “real God” or maybe of a “mesne god”.
 
Ummmmmmmmmm…they sure do! When they fail they show forth the Glory of the One! Jesus Christ and His Kingship!

Peace,

Gail
 
WHOA! Correction. It was not in “Bonfire of the Vanities”, but “Man in Full”.

Sorry.
 
Religion probably has two or three main functions, which I think are very similar to mythology and law. I think one primordial role of religion is to explain the universe, our origins, and our place in the cosmos. I think a second reason why religion has survived from pre-history is its close connection to morality and ethics. Religious beliefs probably have helped reinforce the important values human communities needed to survive as cohesive entities, such as containing aggression and selfishness and fostering co-operation, altruism, and social protections (such as prohibitions on murder, theft, and harm to another person). A third function of religion no doubt is to make and enforce a certain code or set of laws or legal principles deemed necessary to the social cohesion of society. The main religions, especially the monotheistic religions, have rigorous sets of laws governing behaviour.

Overall it is I think correct when Feuerbach said humans project and glorify all that they see good in humanity onto God. Though arguably Tillich was more accurate when he said religion is concerned about matters of fundamental importance and ultimacy. The purpose of the Gods in human life is to have a focal point for ultimacy towards the infinite.
 
If I understand the second statement you made, it seems an irrelevant concern. If there is anything like the Judeo-Christian God, He is his own purpose. Your statement seems to suggest an extrinsic purpose, which would imply yet another, greater Being giving Him purpose, in which case the “targeted” or “perceived” or “posited” God would not be God at all, but a very powerful creature of perhaps the “real God” or maybe of a “mesne god”.
That’s basically it. People want an explanation. That explanation is called god in most cultures. It’s both personal and universal. But it is inexplicable except to say that it has always been around, which puts it on a par with the universe.
 
Religion probably has two or three main functions, which I think are very similar to mythology and law. I think one primordial role of religion is to explain the universe, our origins, and our place in the cosmos. I think a second reason why religion has survived from pre-history is its close connection to morality and ethics. Religious beliefs probably have helped reinforce the important values human communities needed to survive as cohesive entities, such as containing aggression and selfishness and fostering co-operation, altruism, and social protections (such as prohibitions on murder, theft, and harm to another person). A third function of religion no doubt is to make and enforce a certain code or set of laws or legal principles deemed necessary to the social cohesion of society. The main religions, especially the monotheistic religions, have rigorous sets of laws governing behaviour.

Overall it is I think correct when Feuerbach said humans project and glorify all that they see good in humanity onto God. Though arguably Tillich was more accurate when he said religion is concerned about matters of fundamental importance and ultimacy. The purpose of the Gods in human life is to have a focal point for ultimacy towards the infinite.

Hows does Feuerbach’s idea cope with the doctrine of eternal punishment ?​

EP is unlikely to be explicable as a means of manipulation, because it is a possibility for the “manipulators” - Popes can go there as well as peasants; yet Popes can’t disbelieve it.
 
crowonsnow

But I don’t think gods have purpose anymore than the universe has purpose.

It’s true that God does not have a purpose. To have a purpose is to be directed toward some end by a higher power. But since God is the highest power, God cannot be directed. God, however, can direct that his creations have some purpose, since He is *their *higher power. In this sense the universe has a purpose, or many purposes, for all we know. In the old Baltimore Catechism, for example, the purpose for our creation is to know, love, and serve God in this world and to be happy with Him forever in the next.

False gods, however, can have a purpose, because they are created by humans, *their *higher power. They are constructs of the imagination which serve to help explain what purpose is served by the various beings and events throughout creation. But because false gods do not exist in reality, they are merely delusional comforts to those who are “alone and afraid in a world they never made.”
 
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