Do Gregory of Nyssa and John of Damascus claim that Pagan teachings were incorporated into their Doctrine of the Trinity?

[Dan_Parker]

Maybe that should be the starting point for any discussion, the ever changing doctrinal positions of the JW’s. My first link exposes it. Dan has refused to address it. How can we discuss anything else until he clears it up? After all, what was true for him yesterday is no longer true for him today. One can only wonder what will be true for him tomorrow. So, I think Dan needs to clear this up before we can move on to all of the rest of the contradictions of his sect. What say you utunimsint?

Without looking at the quote in the original article I can only speculate. These factors may be applicable:

1. The old 1880’s article was written by an associate of Russell who he later broke off association with. Some of the early stuff that was published in the WT was the opinion of some individuals. We actually teach that there is a parallel between the Jews coming out of Babylon and going back to Jerusalem and Christians coming out of Babylon the Great and shedding some false doctrine gradually. We consider this date to have been around 1919. Even some things like celebrating Christmas and the symbol of the cross were not abandoned until after that date.
2. The word worship has a broad semantic range in English, particularly in older English with the sense of adoring or honoring someone, but does not have the connotation of religious worship or sacred service.
3. The word is analogous to the Greek PROSKUNEW (bow down or worship) which could be rendered worship in a similar sense to #2 above but refers to a bowing down before a superior. Examples of this are found in Scripture where this is given to men and is not considered a religious worship.

 

[twb1621]

Without looking at the quote in the original article I can only speculate. These factors may be applicable:

1. The old 1880’s article was written by an associate of Russell who he later broke off association with. Some of the early stuff that was published in the WT was the opinion of some individuals. We actually teach that there is a parallel between the Jews coming out of Babylon and going back to Jerusalem and Christians coming out of Babylon the Great and shedding some false doctrine gradually. We consider this date to have been around 1919. Even some things like celebrating Christmas and the symbol of the cross were not abandoned until after that date.
2. The word worship has a broad semantic range in English, particularly in older English with the sense of adoring or honoring someone, but does not have the connotation of religious worship or sacred service.
3. The word is analogous to the Greek PROSKUNEW (bow down or worship) which could be rendered worship in a similar sense to #2 above but refers to a bowing down before a superior. Examples of this are found in Scripture where this is given to men and is not considered a religious worship.

It should be noted that the who reason went into partnership with Barbour was because he agreed with the views presented in Barbour’s publications. This is what attracted Russell in the first place. Know we have excuses for different meanings of the word worship when Dan doesn’t recognize the difference between the usage of prayer as in to saints or praying to God. There were no differences of meaning in their reference to worship.

 

[twb1621]

Without looking at the quote in the original article I can only speculate. These factors may be applicable:

Quotes from Charles Taze Russell; “More perhaps than any other servant, ZION’S WATCH TOWER has opposed the thought that the Church of Christ is composed of a clerical class commissioned to teach, and a lay class not commissioned to teach the divine Word: it specially has held up the inspired words, “all ye are brethren” and “one is your Master”; and has pointed out that all consecrated believers are of the “royal priesthood” each fully commissioned, not to “lord it” over others, but to sacrifice himself in the service of the truth, doing good unto all, especially to the household of faith. So with the servants of Matt. 24:49; service is their only commission, not lordship or self-appointment. All the members of the “body” are “anointed to preach” the gospel, and instructed to search the Scriptures, as we have heretofore clearly shown. This has been true ever since Pentecost, and is as true as ever to-day.”
Source Worldpress

A sampling of how Charles Russell’s founding principles violated Scripture;

Scripture defining priesthood.

(Hebrews CH5)* 1 “For every high priest taken from among men is ordained for men in the things that appertain to God, that he may offer up gifts and sacrifices for sins:** 2 Who can have compassion on them that are ignorant and that err: because he himself also is compassed with infirmity. 3 And therefore he ought, as for the people, so also for himself, to offer for sins. 4 Neither doth any man take the honour to himself, but he that is called by God, as Aaron was. 5 So Christ also did not glorify himself, that he might be made a high priest: but he that said unto him: Thou art my Son: this day have I begotten thee. 6 As he saith also in another place: Thou art a priest forever, according to the order of Melchisedech. 7 Who in the days of his flesh, with a strong cry and tears, offering up prayers and supplications to him that was able to save him from death, was heard for his reverence. 8 And whereas indeed he was the Son of God, he learned obedience by the things which he suffered. 9 And being consummated, he became, to all that obey him, the cause of eternal salvation: 10 Called by God a high priest, according to the order of Melchisedech.” *
**
Support of the establishment of a teaching body and hierarchy;

1 Corinthians CH12; 27 Now you are Christ’s body, and individually parts of it. 28 Some people God has designated in the church to be, first, apostles; second, prophets; third, teachers; then, mighty deeds; then, gifts of healing, assistance, administration, and varieties of tongues. 29 Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Do all work mighty deeds? 30 Do all have gifts of healing? Do all speak in tongues? Do all interpret?
**
Apostolic position on self-interpretation.

*2 Peter CH1; **18 We 11 ourselves heard this voice come from heaven while we were with him on the holy mountain. 19 Moreover, we possess the prophetic message that is altogether reliable. You will do well to be attentive to it, as to a lamp shining in a dark place, until day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts. 20 12 Know this first of all, that there is no prophecy of scripture that is a matter of personal interpretation, 21 for no prophecy ever came through human will; but rather human beings moved by the holy Spirit spoke under the influence of God”. *

 

[Tomster]

Quotes from Charles Taze Russell; “More perhaps than any other servant, ZION’S WATCH TOWER has opposed the thought that the Church of Christ is composed of a clerical class commissioned to teach, and a lay class not commissioned to teach the divine Word: it specially has held up the inspired words, “all ye are brethren” and “one is your Master”; and has pointed out that all consecrated believers are of the “royal priesthood” each fully commissioned, not to “lord it” over others, but to sacrifice himself in the service of the truth, doing good unto all, especially to the household of faith. So with the servants of Matt. 24:49; service is their only commission, not lordship or self-appointment. All the members of the “body” are “anointed to preach” the gospel, and instructed to search the Scriptures, as we have heretofore clearly shown. This has been true ever since Pentecost, and is as true as ever to-day.”
Source Worldpress

A sampling of how Charles Russell’s founding principles violated Scripture;

Scripture defining priesthood.

(Hebrews CH5)* 1 “For every high priest* taken from among men is ordained for men in the things that appertain to God, that he may offer up gifts and sacrifices for sins:* 2 Who can have compassion on them that are ignorant* and that err: because he himself also is compassed with infirmity. 3 And therefore he ought, as for the people, so also for himself, to offer for sins. 4 Neither doth any man take the honour to himself, but he that is called by God, as Aaron was. 5 So Christ also did not glorify himself, that he might be made a high priest: but he that said unto him: Thou art my Son: this day have I begotten thee. 6 As he saith also in another place: Thou art a priest forever, according to the order of Melchisedech. 7 Who in the days of his flesh, with a strong cry and tears, offering up prayers and supplications to him that was able to save him from death, was heard for his reverence. 8 And whereas indeed he was the Son of God, he learned obedience by the things which he suffered. 9 And being consummated, he became, to all that obey him, the cause of eternal salvation: 10 Called by God a high priest, according to the order of Melchisedech.”
**
Support of the establishment of a teaching body and hierarchy;

1 Corinthians CH12; 27 Now you are Christ’s body, and individually parts of it. 28 Some people God has designated in the church to be, first, apostles; second, prophets; third, teachers; then, mighty deeds; then, gifts of healing, assistance, administration, and varieties of tongues. 29 Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Do all work mighty deeds? 30 Do all have gifts of healing? Do all speak in tongues? Do all interpret?
**
Apostolic position on self-interpretation.

2 Peter CH1; **18 We 11 ourselves heard this voice come from heaven while we were with him on the holy mountain. 19 Moreover, we possess the prophetic message that is altogether reliable. You will do well to be attentive to it, as to a lamp shining in a dark place, until day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts. 20 12 Know this first of all, that there is no prophecy of scripture that is a matter of personal interpretation, 21 for no prophecy ever came through human will; but rather human beings moved by the holy Spirit spoke under the influence of God”.