Do Jews believe in sin and that it must be forgiven? If so, do they sacrifice pure animals to renew their covenant, like the Israelites did?

[Nine_Two]

So, it’s wrong to have a bank account which earns interest and to invest my savings?

Well first off I’d say that if you earn enough interest from your bank account to pay off the fees your bank charges you and then some (in other words, you’re actually making money off of having a bank account), then I must ask, can I borrow some money?

As for investing savings, you’re not actually giving someone money and saying return it plus x%, rather you’re giving it to them in exchange for a share of what they get back, generally equal to the percentage you put in.
In other words, when you invest you buy a piece of a company, if that company goes up in value, your share goes up, just like if your house goes up in value, and while you may have made the purchase with that in mind, it is only an indirect result.

 

[Thyme]

Well first off I’d say that if you earn enough interest from your bank account to pay off the fees your bank charges you and then some (in other words, you’re actually making money off of having a bank account), then I must ask, can I borrow some money?

Yes you can!

As for investing savings, you’re not actually giving someone money and saying return it plus x%, rather you’re giving it to them in exchange for a share of what they get back, generally equal to the percentage you put in.
In other words, when you invest you buy a piece of a company, if that company goes up in value, your share goes up, just like if your house goes up in value, and while you may have made the purchase with that in mind, it is only an indirect result.

Thanks for taking your time to explain this. So, I assume it only applies when lending money to someone?

 

[GerardMajella]

Not to make a loan to an Israelite on interest (Lev. 25:37) (CCN54).
Not to borrow on interest (Deut. 23:20) (because this would cause the lender to sin) (CCN55).

If you are Roman Catholic, this does not apply. It only applies to Jews that follow the Torah. The Catholic Church has openly stated that it is against usury (lenders that charge rates of high interest, such as payday or title pawn loans).

However, the Catholic Church has also recognized the legitimate place of lending at interest for the purpose of facilitating traditional commerce and industry.

The whole point behind the Leviticus 25:37 verse is that a Jew should prevent poverty, and not charge a poor person interest. You have to put the quote into context.

In terms of the Deut. 23:20. these verses prohibit a Torah-following Jew to lend money at interest to another Jew. It does not, however, forbid a Jew from lending money at interest to a Gentile. The Torah exempts gentiles from the laws of interest.

You have to keep in mind, when you are looking at the Old Testament – especially the first 5 books of the Bible, that the majority of these laws were specifically directed at the Jewish nation. As a Catholic, you would have to look at whether the Catholic Church still upholds these laws. In some cases, they do – Such as the Ten Commandments. In others, they do not – such as prohibitions against eating non-kosher food, etc.

 

[GEddie]

Thanks for these explanations. There’s a lot to read up on.

Gehinnom sounds like Purgatory. Is the concept of Gehinnom from the Torah, or was it passed down oraly (which also sounds like sacred tradition).

It’s not in the Torah. Gehinnom, literally, has as root the “Valley of Hinnom” below the walls of Jerusalem. Here, the refuse of the city, including unclaimed human bodies, was burnt, hence its value as a metaphor for fiery punishment. This is also the source for the term “Gehenna” used by our LORD to mean Hell (although the sense of Gehenna being forever was AIUI unique to HIM).

The people did not possess Jerusalem during the time of the Torah.

Also, what do you mean when you mention that the temple may be rebuilt when the Muslims’ holy place is moved out of Jerusalem?

The temple cannot be rebuilt at present, as the site is now occypied by the Dome of the Rock Muslim shrine (which see on any poster of Jerusalem). Since it has been there since AD691 and Muslims are in no way motivated to yield to Jewish demands, the temple cannot be rebuilt by human means.

If, however, supernatural means caused them to leave the site, or motivated a true peace between the 2 peoples, it is possible that Dome and temple could stand side by side. For this to happen would be a human event comparable to the Exodus or the rebuilding of the Israeli state in 1948-9.

ICXC NIKA!

 

[GerardMajella]

It’s not in the Torah.

The earliest mention of the Gehinnom valley is in the Book of Joshua. There are also references scattered throughout the Hebrew Bible, in Isaiah, Chronicles, Nehemiah, Jeremiah, etc. A decent article on the topic is found on Wikipedia, with links to references:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gehinnom

The people did not possess Jerusalem during the time of the Torah.

Explain. Shem, Noah’s son, and his progeny lived in Jerusalem and even set up a school there where the word of God was taught. As the city grew, and required a formal government, Shem was named king, and given a new name: “Melchizadek” or “Malchi-Tzedek”.

 

[PJM]

=Thyme;6922636]Hello,

It would be more appropriate to ask this on a Jewish forum, but I can’t be bothered to sign up to a forum just to ask one question .

In the Old Testament, the Israelites would sacrifice pure animals for their sins (If my interpretation is correct). If this is correct, is this what Jews do today? If not, what do they believe they must do to be forgiven?

It’s been years since I did R.E at school, so I don’t have much understanding of Judaism and this is something I’ve been wondering about.

Thanks.

Today’s Jews have an anual “Day of Atonement” “yom Kippor” ? sp.]

The question is that God accept this form in current times? ONLY GOD KNOWS.

Further complicating this issue iswhat seems to be a variance it OT practice…

Lev. 5: Lev.5: 6 and he shall bring his guilt offering to the LORD for the sin which he has committed, a female from the flock, a lamb or a goat, for a sin offering; and the priest shall make atonement for him for his sin. [8] He shall bring them to the priest, who shall offer first the one for the sin offering; he shall wring its head from its neck, but shall not sever it, [10] Then he shall offer the second for a burnt offering according to the ordinance; and the priest shall make atonement for him for the sin which he has committed, and he shall be forgiven.

Somehow I have the impression that current Jewih practice no-longer requires priestly intercession?

Hopefully our Jewish friends will correct me.
Love an prayers,
Pat

 

[GerardMajella]

Lev. 5: Lev.5: 6 and he shall bring his guilt offering to the LORD for the sin which he has committed, a female from the flock, a lamb or a goat, for a sin offering; and the priest shall make atonement for him for his sin. [8] He shall bring them to the priest, who shall offer first the one for the sin offering; he shall wring its head from its neck, but shall not sever it, [10] Then he shall offer the second for a burnt offering according to the ordinance; and the priest shall make atonement for him for the sin which he has committed, and he shall be forgiven.

These verses refer to the Kohen, which were the priestly class that were in charge of the sacrificial offerings. Verse 6 and prior verses are referring to an offering that is required if someone swears falsely while unaware of the penalty for a false oath, or someone that violates an oath by forgetting its terms. Verse 8-10 refers to guilt-offerings given by a poor person.

Somehow I have the impression that current Jewih practice no-longer requires priestly intercession?

The Jewish priestly class no longer practices animal sacrifices.

 

[Kaninchen]

Today’s Jews have an anual “Day of Atonement” “yom Kippor” ? sp.]

The question is that God accept this form in current times? ONLY GOD KNOWS.

Further complicating this issue iswhat seems to be a variance it OT practice…

Lev. 5: Lev.5: 6 and he shall bring his guilt offering to the LORD for the sin which he has committed, a female from the flock, a lamb or a goat, for a sin offering; and the priest shall make atonement for him for his sin. [8] He shall bring them to the priest, who shall offer first the one for the sin offering; he shall wring its head from its neck, but shall not sever it, [10] Then he shall offer the second for a burnt offering according to the ordinance; and the priest shall make atonement for him for the sin which he has committed, and he shall be forgiven.

Somehow I have the impression that current Jewih practice no-longer requires priestly intercession?

Hopefully our Jewish friends will correct me.
Love an prayers,
Pat

You might find this and this helpful.

We have no priests by the way.

 

[GEddie]

The Jewish priestly class no longer practices animal sacrifices.

Because they literally can’t. There is no temple since AD70; no way of rebuilding it; and no rubric for carrying out valid sacrifices without it. Also, the remnants of the Priesthood have, for these reasons, been out of training for the sacrificial worship for about 100 generations.

But nothing in Judaism has renounced or revoked physical sacrifice. If the physical means to do so were reinstated, no doubt it would again be put in practice.

ICXC NIKA.

 

[GerardMajella]

But nothing in Judaism has renounced or revoked physical sacrifice. If the physical means to do so were reinstated, no doubt it would again be put in practice.

Agreed in regards to all the points in your post. The only question I have is not “if”, but when? There is already a movement to restore the Sanhedrin. I hope to see the Temple in Jerusalem rebuilt in my lifetime. It will take a miracle to do so. At some point, the Abrahamic religions will have to converge along common ground.

We have no priests by the way.

It’s in the works. Preparations are being made. I hope to see this happen in my lifetime.

 

[GEddie]

Agreed in regards to all the points in your post. The only question I have is not “if”, but when? There is already a movement to restore the Sanhedrin.

They tried to proclaim one about 5 years ago; the difficulty being that there is no way to get everybody to accept the new Sanhedrin’s authority. Catch 22, in a way: no universal authority to proclaim such an authority.

I hope to see the Temple in Jerusalem rebuilt in my lifetime. It will take a miracle to do so. At some point, the Abrahamic religions will have to converge along common ground.

And before then, probably persecutions that would make the Gospel period look like fun and games. The Muslims will not peacably make accommmodation with Jews or Christians.

It’s in the works. Preparations are being made. I hope to see this happen in my lifetime.

Amen to that!

ICXC NIKA

 

[Contarini]

But nothing in Judaism has renounced or revoked physical sacrifice.

Not in traditional Judaism. Reform Jews are very explicit about the fact that they do not desire or expect the restoration of physical sacrifice (that appears to be why they call their synagogues “temples,” which more traditional Jews do not), and even in the Conservative Siddur there is an alternate prayer available for congregations that don’t want to pray for the restoration of the Temple and the sacrifices.

Edwin

 

[GEddie]

Not in traditional Judaism. Reform Jews are very explicit about the fact that they do not desire or expect the restoration of physical sacrifice (that appears to be why they call their synagogues “temples,” which more traditional Jews do not), and even in the Conservative Siddur there is an alternate prayer available for congregations that don’t want to pray for the restoration of the Temple and the sacrifices.

Edwin

THX Edwin. We learn something new each day I was not aware that some Jews had expressly renounced the sacrificial liturgy. (Of course if it again became physically possible, we’d have to wait and see if their attitudes changed.

So do these congregations still fast and grieve on Tammuz 17 and Av 9? (These Hebrew calendar days being the days that the sacrifice, and then the Temple, came to an end).

ICXC NIKA

 

[Contarini]

THX Edwin. We learn something new each day I was not aware that some Jews had expressly renounced the sacrificial liturgy. (Of course if it again became physically possible, we’d have to wait and see if their attitudes changed.

I don’t think so, although the Reform Jews do seem to be moving back in a relatively traditional direction, based on my very limited contact with them so far.

So do these congregations still fast and grieve on Tammuz 17 and Av 9? (These Hebrew calendar days being the days that the sacrifice, and then the Temple, came to an end).

Good question. I know that the local Conservative Rabbi fasts in the 9th of Av, because he couldn’t read Rashi with me on that day (since he can’t read anything that’s not mournful). But I’m pretty sure that that congregation uses the “with sacrifices” option–I just noticed that their siddur had another option on the facing page.

Edwin