Do Lutheran's view God as Goddess?

[Enough]

Not so fast. I have a lot of information on this church and the ELCA.

The ELCA knows what this church is doing and is fine with it. There are many more goddess worship info as well as “Mother” god references from the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America.

See all the links on this page - exposingtheelca.com/on-goddessmother-godgender-neutral-lang.html
This articles are back up by many solid sources.

It is truly sad to see my denomination teaching and allowing the worship of other gods.

 

[Dale_M]

See all the links on this page .

Hmm… I find attack sites to be dubious. And a WHOIS search shows that whoever registered the internet domain deliberately hid his or her identity and contact information. I think that diminishes the site’s credibility even more.

 

[phoebecat3]

Yes the ELCA and LCMS are both Lutheran but there are some major differences, hence they really are 2 different denominations.
ELCA will ordain women, is considering or have voted to actually ordain Practicing homosexuals. Don’t know the status of that but I do know this has cause a surge of ELCA congregations to leave and form yet another Lutheran denom. While there can be conservative churches within the ELCA the “main headquarters” is liberal. The money that your conservative congregation will go to support liberal ideals. LCMS pastors can not take the pulpit in an ELCA congregation (or at least they are not supposed to) and an ELCA pastor is not SUPPOSED to take the pulpit in a LCMS congregation. Some LCMS pastors that I know personally has said they are not supposed to commune ELCA members(don’t know if that actually happens) but he taught at one of the LCMS seminaries so I know he knows what he was talking about. I could go on and on.
I am LCMS but at one time was ELCA. I left the ELCA because at least at that one church they taught that everyone goes to heaven, that we are not saved by grace through faith-hello that is Lutheran at the core. I am not saying that all ELCA churches are like this, this was just MY experience. I did have a meeting with my former pastor and told him of my concerns, he did not seem concerned so we left.
Now I will get off of my soapbox, I truly hope I have not offended anyone out there, that is not my intention but I did feel that those who are not Lutheran need to know some of the differences.

 

[phoebecat3]

Oh in a reply to my own reply. I am in no way shape or form saying the LCMS is Perfect!!! It is not. I know of many liberal LCMS people, that feel that women should ordained etc…I’m sure there are homosexual pastors(we just don’t know about it). So please don’t think that I am putting us as the pure example. I just wanted to expand on some of the differences and why the two are not in communion with one another.

 

[Oldtimer_7]

When I was council president in an ELCA congregation, I made sure that our delegates to the state synod did not support the idea of homosexual clergy. Our synod did not support the idea, and at the national assembly our bishop tried to get a resolution that the norm for Christian life was the marriage of a man and a woman. That resolution failed. We have had a number of congregations leave the ELCA over this issue, but the last I heard, not as many as left over being in full communion with the Episcopal Church. A number of our members have directed that their giving go to the state synod, but not the national assembly. Council has since issued a statement of the position of the congregation that said it was not likely to support a homosexual clergyperson. This made members on both sides of the issue mad enough to leave.

Now, to state my position, this is not an issue of homosexuality, but an issue of fitness for the clergy. In I Timothy, Paul lays out requirements for clergy, and this was in a Greek dominated mission. Greeks were much more accepting of homosexuality, so it was not an oversight on Paul’s part to leave them out. I think that all of our churches have homosexual members (I do not like the PC term GLBT, but I suppose it has some utility). They are welcomed as are all sinners in need of God’s grace. Jesus certainly was willing to sit with and defend even the dregs of Jewish society. But for the good order of the church, it does not mean that anyone can be ordained as clergy.

 

[Enough]

Hmm… I find attack sites to be dubious. And a WHOIS search shows that whoever registered the internet domain deliberately hid his or her identity and contact information. I think that diminishes the site’s credibility even more.

Dale, no. I have not hid my identity and if you look on that website you will see the bloggers (my) name and the contact information is on the home page.

 

[Enough]

And??? My website links to articles and information from other websites, many of them from pastors (ELCA and other), churches, ELCA seminary profs and the ELCA themself. . . do you have issues with the content of the website? Do you see falsehoods? The ELCA has left orthodox Christianity, it should be something that troubles all of us.

 

[Enough]

In my first post I said, " I have a lot of information on this church and the ELCA."

Sounds like you are an elca supporter that just wants to complain about nonissues. Deal with the issues that are brought up.

 

[JonNC]

In my first post I said, " I have a lot of information on this church and the ELCA."

Sounds like you are an elca supporter that just wants to complain about nonissues. Deal with the issues that are brought up.

Hello Enough,
Welcome to CAF. I share your concern about the direction our Lutheran siblings are being taken in the ELCA. I pray for them, as most of my family remains in the ELCA.

Regarding (name removed by moderator): I know you are new here, so a pass on your comment about him. It is amusing at best. Jharek is not an ELCA supporter. He is Catholic, through and through, and I might add that I highly respect his faith, and his charity as a poster here.

Just a heads up,
Jon

 

[Alix1912]

As a Lutheran LCMS, I agree I in no way support what the ELCA is doing, but you should always present a site as your own creation up front. No one is saying the concerns your site raises are not valid, they are just saying you should disclose it up front.

Also you can often tell what denomination/religion someone is by looking at the right of their posting. It is listed there on most people’s posts.

Lastly, I realize that the situation in many ELCA church is not good, and has seriously angered many Lutherans on everyside and in every synod, however screaming about it and insulting people is not the way to fix it…especially when the person you are accusing of supporting the ELCA is a Latin Rite Catholic.

I also agree with a previous poster that your website comes of very rant like. You have a lot of good information on it, and some very valid complaints, you might want to look at how to make it sound less like your personal beef with the ELCA.

My 2 cents for whatever they are worth.

 

[Oldtimer_7]

Meanwhile, back at the topic…
In some ways, I see the San Francisco church as an adiaphoron with its view of God as Goddess. To me, it is like a cowboy church. If that is OK, then a feminist church has to be OK, too. All our views of God are limited as a result of our finiteness.

The Hebrews recognized that there was a feminine aspect of God’s nature, hence the title, El Shaddai. In praise and worship service, we used the song by that name. It was originally sung by Amy Grant. Because part of it was in Hebrew, some people were reluctant to sing it, so we dropped it.

The conundrum for the feminists who want to see God as Goddess is that there are some very strong predictors of success and satisfaction for women. One of them is a strong positive relationship with their fathers. The point of calling God father is to see that relationship. The most common of all mistranslations of the Bible is the Our Father. Abba is a diminutive, the English equivalent being daddy or papa. Jesus uses the image of a child to relate to heaven. Thus we lay all worldly glory and position aside to become truly children of God. That includes feminism, or any other ism.

 

[StrawberryJam]

I think StrawberryJam is just trying to stir the pot and be contrary. Anyone who has done an iota of research on the LCMS knows that this statement is categorically false.

The statement stands. As long as there is any allowable circumstance, then it is not comparable to the catholic stand on the matter. What you may not like is that I am pointing out that your theology on abortion is not very different really than other non christian religions.

 

[AugustV]

Luther must be “rolling over in his grave.” How far has the schismatic church he founded wandered from his own beliefs and teachings. Feminism is simply a wolf in sheep’s clothing as is all this concern about giving the authors of the Bible “sensitivity training.” It isn’t hard or distracting for the humble Christian to understand the broader meaning of the male pronoun in Scripture–at least it wasn’t for millennia. In fact, it is far more distracting to listen to or read the strained language of those who insist on “gender-neutral” language. I am completely distracted when people alter the liturgy to appear inclusive.

By the way, the roles of father and mother are different. Tampering with this language can cause serious confusion and doctrinal problems, such as in the proper understanding of the real role of Mary as Mother of the Church. Luther, himself, would not have brooked this silliness. Unfortunately, it is coming to a Catholic Church or Catholic Bible near you…

 

[SedesDomi]

The conundrum for the feminists who want to see God as Goddess is that there are some very strong predictors of success and satisfaction for women. One of them is a strong positive relationship with their fathers.

So, one’s relationship with one’s mother is of no significance?

 

[JonNC]

The statement stands. As long as there is any allowable circumstance, then it is not comparable to the catholic stand on the matter. What you may not like is that I am pointing out that your theology on abortion is not very different really than other non christian religions.

If non-christian groups wish to take a stand against abortion such as ours, I would welcome them, and not consider it an insult.

Here is the statement from the LCMS website:

Q. What is the Missouri Synod’s view of abortion?

A. The LCMS believes that abortion is contrary to God’s Word and “is not a moral option except, except as a tragically unavoidable byproduct of medical procedures necessary to prevent the death of another human being, viz., the mother” (1979 Res. 3-02A). Official synodical resolutions and other materials on this topic are available from the Synod’s Commission on Theology and Church Relations (CTCR).

lcms.org/pages/internal.asp?NavID=2120
Now, if you wish to charactarize that as “fine and dandy with abortion”, ok. I would contend, however, that your characterization is not a reasonable one, even if you disagree with it.

Jon

 

[Alix1912]

Luther must be “rolling over in his grave.” How far has the schismatic church he founded wandered from his own beliefs and teachings. Feminism is simply a wolf in sheep’s clothing as is all this concern about giving the authors of the Bible “sensitivity training.” It isn’t hard or distracting for the humble Christian to understand the broader meaning of the male pronoun in Scripture–at least it wasn’t for millennia. In fact, it is far more distracting to listen to or read the strained language of those who insist on “gender-neutral” language. I am completely distracted when people alter the liturgy to appear inclusive.

By the way, the roles of father and mother are different. Tampering with this language can cause serious confusion and doctrinal problems, such as in the proper understanding of the real role of Mary as Mother of the Church. Luther, himself, would not have brooked this silliness. Unfortunately, it is coming to a Catholic Church or Catholic Bible near you…

What rabid feminism doesn’t seem to realize is that by forcing everyone to be gender neutral and trying to make men and women exactly the same, they not only hopelessly confuse the issue, but they also cheapen the things that make women unique. There is also the real chance of making many of the laws and ideals that protect women obsolete. As an educated, independent, intellegent woman I am not the least bit offended by God being refered to as “Father”, I do not find words like “mankind” offensive either.

If non-christian groups wish to take a stand against abortion such as ours, I would welcome them, and not consider it an insult.

Here is the statement from the LCMS website:

lcms.org/pages/internal.asp?NavID=2120
Now, if you wish to charactarize that as “fine and dandy with abortion”, ok. I would contend, however, that your characterization is not a reasonable one, even if you disagree with it.

Jon

I stand by my statement that Strawberry Jam is not really here to discuss or learn simply to be contrary, spiteful, and try to upset people. Everyone knows that the Lutheran MS’s view on abortion is NOT an endorsement of the prolife viewpoint in any, shape or form. The best way to respond to him is to ignore him.

 

[AugustV]

What rabid feminism doesn’t seem to realize is that by forcing everyone to be gender neutral and trying to make men and women exactly the same, they not only hopelessly confuse the issue, but they also cheapen the things that make women unique. There is also the real chance of making many of the laws and ideals that protect women obsolete. As an educated, independent, intellegent woman I am not the least bit offended by God being refered to as “Father”, I do not find words like “mankind” offensive either. QUOTE]

Thank you my dear, Lutheran sister. I know that there are fine, intelligent Christian women who eschew the foolishness of those feminists who reject all that is good, unique, powerful and magnificent in the feminine nature. Your view is so welcome and desparately needed.

 

[JonNC]

Luther must be “rolling over in his grave.” How far has the schismatic church he founded wandered from his own beliefs and teachings. Feminism is simply a wolf in sheep’s clothing as is all this concern about giving the authors of the Bible “sensitivity training.” It isn’t hard or distracting for the humble Christian to understand the broader meaning of the male pronoun in Scripture–at least it wasn’t for millennia. In fact, it is far more distracting to listen to or read the strained language of those who insist on “gender-neutral” language. I am completely distracted when people alter the liturgy to appear inclusive.

By the way, the roles of father and mother are different. Tampering with this language can cause serious confusion and doctrinal problems, such as in the proper understanding of the real role of Mary as Mother of the Church. Luther, himself, would not have brooked this silliness. Unfortunately, it is coming to a Catholic Church or Catholic Bible near you…

This is well said.

Thank you,
Jon

 

[Oldtimer_7]

Sedes Domi, We are dealing with complex human interactions here, not simple dichotomies. Certainly, both parents contribute hugely to any child, for good or ill. The point I was making was that there is a very particular influence of fathers on daughters in regard to dealing with men. This translates to success in the public arena. This may not be to our liking or to our desires for our daughters, and I have two, but that is the way the world is.

Trying to force God into any mold does not hurt God in the least, but has devastating effects on the believer. This is as true of those who insist that God is a physical male. This flies in the face of the language of Genesis 1:26-27. Since it includes man and woman, it precludes God being seen as one sex or another, but speaks to the breath of God in all of us.
Gen 1:26 And he said: Let us make man to our image and likeness: and let him have dominion over the fishes of the sea, and the fowls of the air, and the beasts, and the whole earth, and every creeping creature that moveth upon the earth.
Gen 1:27 And God created man to his own image: to the image of God he created him: male and female he created them. (DRC)