Do not make graven idols

[emom]

How do I explain to Bible Christians the concept that Catholics do not worship idols? There are so many references in the Old Testament how God was angry regarding the worships of the statues and idols that Israel made. But in the Bible, it does not explain that Israel was actually worshiping false gods such as Baal in the idols. And when I explain the Catholic view, they say that is my interpretation and it is wrong. That it clearly states in the Bible that God is angered by statues and idols like our crucifix.

Then they bring up versus like 2 Kings 18:4 “He removed the high places, smashed the sacred stones and cut down the Asherah poles. He broke into pieces the bronze snake Moses had made, for up to that time the Israelites had been burning incense to it.” Where they say that Catholics go too far with the crucifix and we should not emphasize going to statues, crucifix ect because eventually it will bring us to sin. And why keep something that tempts us to sin.

I am even wondering that we emphasize too much on the crucifix and statues because many Catholics believe that the item actually has power itself. Being raised a cradle Catholic and watching those Hollywood movies, I always have held my crucifix close thinking that it was the crucifix that protected and not Jesus.

I feel really lost on how to explain this and even am influenced when reading the Bible in the Old Testament that God gets angry with Israel so much for making those idols.

 

[thistle]

emom:

How do I explain to Bible Christians the concept that Catholics do not worship idols? There are so many references in the Old Testament how God was angry regarding the worships of the statues and idols that Israel made. But in the Bible, it does not explain that Israel was actually worshiping false gods such as Baal in the idols. And when I explain the Catholic view, they say that is my interpretation and it is wrong. That it clearly states in the Bible that God is angered by statues and idols like our crucifix.

Then they bring up versus like 2 Kings 18:4 “He removed the high places, smashed the sacred stones and cut down the Asherah poles. He broke into pieces the bronze snake Moses had made, for up to that time the Israelites had been burning incense to it.” Where they say that Catholics go too far with the crucifix and we should not emphasize going to statues, crucifix ect because eventually it will bring us to sin. And why keep something that tempts us to sin.

I am even wondering that we emphasize too much on the crucifix and statues because many Catholics believe that the item actually has power itself. Being raised a cradle Catholic and watching those Hollywood movies, I always have held my crucifix close thinking that it was the crucifix that protected and not Jesus.

I feel really lost on how to explain this and even am influenced when reading the Bible in the Old Testament that God gets angry with Israel so much for making those idols.

CCC 2129 The divine injunction included the prohibition of every representation of God by the hand of man. Deuteronomy explains: "Since you saw no form on the day that the Lord spoke to you at Horeb out of the midst of the fire, beware lest you act corruptly by making a graven image for yourselves, in the form of any figure. . . . "66 It is the absolutely transcendent God who revealed himself to Israel. “He is the all,” but at the same time "he is greater than all his works."67 He is "the author of beauty."68

CCC 2130 Nevertheless, already in the Old Testament, God ordained or permitted the making of images that pointed symbolically toward salvation by the incarnate Word: so it was with the bronze serpent, the ark of the covenant, and the cherubim.69

CCC 2131 Basing itself on the mystery of the incarnate Word, the seventh ecumenical council at Nicaea (787) justified against the iconoclasts the veneration of icons - of Christ, but also of the Mother of God, the angels, and all the saints. By becoming incarnate, the Son of God introduced a new “economy” of images.

CCC 2132 The Christian veneration of images is not contrary to the first commandment which proscribes idols. Indeed, “the honor rendered to an image passes to its prototype,” and "whoever venerates an image venerates the person portrayed in it."70 The honor paid to sacred images is a “respectful veneration,” not the adoration due to God alone:

Religious worship is not directed to images in themselves, considered as mere things, but under their distinctive aspect as images leading us on to God incarnate. The movement toward the image does not terminate in it as image, but tends toward that whose image it is.71

See also this website:
www.catholic.com/thisrock/1994/9401vbv.asp

 

[emom]

thistle:

CCC 2131 Basing itself on the mystery of the incarnate Word, the seventh ecumenical council at Nicaea (787) justified against the iconoclasts the veneration of icons - of Christ, but also of the Mother of God, the angels, and all the saints. By becoming incarnate, the Son of God introduced a new “economy” of images.

What does this passage mean “justified against the iconoclasts”? Who were the iconoclast?

 

[thistle]

emom:

What does this passage mean “justified against the iconoclasts”? Who were the iconoclast?

I will defer to some more learned posters to answer that one.

 

[Tietjen]

emom:

What does this passage mean “justified against the iconoclasts”? Who were the iconoclast?

The rejection of statues and other images in Church devotional life is a heresy known as “iconoclasm.” This first appeared in the 8th century. The Council of Nicea (787 AD) condemned this heresy. It resurfaced again during the Reformation and of course, is still an issue used by many Protestants to condemn the Catholic Church.

 

[puzzleannie]

we would say, yeah, it is a sin to make graven idols and to worship them, or to worship any creature. All statues and images are not graven idols. Only a created thing that is turned into an object of worship is an idol. A statue of George Washington on the public square of your town is not a graven image. A picture of Abe Lincoln on a 5 dollar bill is not a graven image (unless you worship money). A picture of your mother in your wallet is not an object of worship.

Catholics do not worship statues or holy pictures. Catholics do not worship the saints, including Mary, that these images represent. We do venerate the images and the holy persons they represent. Veneration is not worship. We venerate the American flag which is a symbol of our republic and the freedoms guaranteed by the Constitution. We do not worship the flag, the constitution or our country or its leaders.

The crucifix is an image of Christ depicting his salvific action by which we all are saved. We do worship Christ because he is God and Lord. We do not worship the crucifix or any image that depicts him. We obey the Word of God. We do not worship the book in which his revealed word is recorded.

 

[shannin]

I am a devout cradle-Catholic and have statutes and the crucifix in my home only as a reminder of Jesus - just as I have photos of my family around my home.

I do agree though that a few Catholics (even in my own family) go a little overboard with the icons and statutes and really think that the statute or photo itself has a power. I’m sorry if this offends anyone but I’m just stating my observation of a few Catholics that I know. I am, by no means, inferring that the Catholic faith is a belief in idols.

 

[NotWorthy]

emom:

Then they bring up versus like 2 Kings 18:4 “He removed the high places, smashed the sacred stones and cut down the Asherah poles. He broke into pieces the bronze snake Moses had made, for up to that time the Israelites had been burning incense to it.” Where they say that Catholics go too far with the crucifix and we should not emphasize going to statues, crucifix ect because eventually it will bring us to sin. And why keep something that tempts us to sin.

This is an interesting point they are trying to make. How could the creation of this Snake on a Pole be evil when God Commanded Moses to Build It??? This is detailed in (I believe) Numbers - Chapter 6. It was not the graven image that insulted God, but the worship of the image!!!

The day that I think the image of Jesus on the Cross is truly my God, and not a depiction of Him, is the day I’ll accept my idolatry.

Praying and bowing to statues is akin to a husband kissing his wife’s picture. He knows he’s not showing affection to Kodak Paper, but he’s showing affection to his wife.

Notworthy