Do progestin-only pills cause abortions?

[holly_potter]

I’m fairly certain I have PCOS and will make an appt with the gyn soon to discuss my cycles (very long, as in 40+ days, up to 70 days, with wide variations). I’m going to talk with him about ways to try to make it more regular without resorting to the BCP–I just want it to be more “normal” so to make charting easier for NFP. I was practicing charting my cycles, but I’m always thrown off when I have very long patches of ewm a couple of times, with maybe one or two days of not-as-fertile-signs separating them. It will be hard to know when it’s safe to “have fun.” My fiance knows this makes it harder for NFP TTA (while we’re still finishing my MLS and he his PhD). I simply have difficulty knowing when I’m ovulating.

Anyway…I was looking up some of the treatments for PCOS, and I saw that sometimes doctors prescribe progestin-only pills–do they cause abortions/purposefully prevent pregnancy like the usual estrogen/progesterone dual pills? I just want to know, so in case he tells me I can take this or that, whether it would be moral to continue taking it into my marriage. I’m going to ask him about metformin, because of my problem with blood sugar, too. (Not diabetic, but I just notice that if I have too much or too little sugar, I feel like throwing up and have other symptoms, and so I consciously monitor how I feel and eat appropriately in order to manage the symptoms.)

Anything else I should ask the gyn about, with regards to treatment options for PCOS? Thanks

 

[Seatuck]

I’m fairly certain I have PCOS and will make an appt with the gyn soon to discuss my cycles (very long, as in 40+ days, up to 70 days, with wide variations). I’m going to talk with him about ways to try to make it more regular without resorting to the BCP–I just want it to be more “normal” so to make charting easier for NFP. I was practicing charting my cycles, but I’m always thrown off when I have very long patches of ewm a couple of times, with maybe one or two days of not-as-fertile-signs separating them. It will be hard to know when it’s safe to “have fun.” My fiance knows this makes it harder for NFP TTA (while we’re still finishing my MLS and he his PhD). I simply have difficulty knowing when I’m ovulating.

Anyway…I was looking up some of the treatments for PCOS, and I saw that sometimes doctors prescribe progestin-only pills–do they cause abortions/purposefully prevent pregnancy like the usual estrogen/progesterone dual pills? I just want to know, so in case he tells me I can take this or that, whether it would be moral to continue taking it into my marriage. I’m going to ask him about metformin, because of my problem with blood sugar, too. (Not diabetic, but I just notice that if I have too much or too little sugar, I feel like throwing up and have other symptoms, and so I consciously monitor how I feel and eat appropriately in order to manage the symptoms.)

Anything else I should ask the gyn about, with regards to treatment options for PCOS? Thanks

You should ask for a recommendation for a reproductive endocrinologist. Diet and exercise are also key in managing this syndrome as you probably know from your research. It depends upon your symptoms whether the minipill is good for you in this situation . If you already have irregular periods you will probably need both hormones for balance. You should know that there is a higher rate of breakthrough ovulation with the minipill so it actually has a higher suspicion of causing abortions than the typical pill.

Have you been to the SoulCysters website? It’s pretty informative. Just throw out the bad secular stuff and keep the good. www.soulcysters.com

You might want to get an NFP only doctor to see if they will work harder to manage your symptoms without the pill or contact the Paul VI institute for a consult.

I hope you get all the answers and care you need.

 

[Miserissima]

Exactly what Seatuck said!!!

 

[flyingfish]

I’m fairly certain I have PCOS and will make an appt with the gyn soon to discuss my cycles (very long, as in 40+ days, up to 70 days, with wide variations). I’m going to talk with him about ways to try to make it more regular without resorting to the BCP–I just want it to be more “normal” so to make charting easier for NFP. I was practicing charting my cycles, but I’m always thrown off when I have very long patches of ewm a couple of times, with maybe one or two days of not-as-fertile-signs separating them. It will be hard to know when it’s safe to “have fun.” My fiance knows this makes it harder for NFP TTA (while we’re still finishing my MLS and he his PhD). I simply have difficulty knowing when I’m ovulating.

Anyway…I was looking up some of the treatments for PCOS, and I saw that sometimes doctors prescribe progestin-only pills–do they cause abortions/purposefully prevent pregnancy like the usual estrogen/progesterone dual pills? I just want to know, so in case he tells me I can take this or that, whether it would be moral to continue taking it into my marriage. I’m going to ask him about metformin, because of my problem with blood sugar, too. (Not diabetic, but I just notice that if I have too much or too little sugar, I feel like throwing up and have other symptoms, and so I consciously monitor how I feel and eat appropriately in order to manage the symptoms.)

Anything else I should ask the gyn about, with regards to treatment options for PCOS? Thanks

If you need to take birth control pills for a medical reason it is moral to take them while living the married life.

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=4618 Fr. Vincent’s response to a similar question.

 

[noclevername]

I have severe endometriosis which I am having surgery for soon. My doc suggested Lupron which I wasn’t willing to take but you might. It’s a hormone but it’s not a contraceptive. Not sure about PCOS but here’s some info. womenshealth.about.com/cs/hormones/a/lupron.htm

 

[smallcat]

Yes, progestin-only pills have the same effect that “standard” birth control pills do- that is, they alter the lining of the uterus which makes it more difficult for a fertilized egg to implant, thus potentially causing an early abortion. In fact, progestin-only pills are *more *likely to have this effect (that is, they are more likely to allow breakthrough ovulation) than standard pills.

However, having said this, it is absolutely true that if you need to take birth control pills for a medical reason it is moral to take them while living the married life.

 

[1ke]

Yes, progestin only pills are abortifacient.

Regarding your PCOS, two suggestions:

Learn the Creighton Model of NFP. They have a standard mucus observation unlike STM which is very subjective. Creighton’s instructions might make your cycle much less confusing to you. Their one-on-one instruction is also very valuable for those with cycle irregularities. There are many things the Creighton practicioner can assist you with.

Also, check the Pope Paul VI Institute, Dr. Hilgers has helped many PCOS women.

 

[nodito]

Learn the Creighton Model of NFP. They have a standard mucus observation unlike STM which is very subjective.

I like the Creighton method and their medical model. I appreciate the work they do for women with PCOS, endometriosis, etc. But I think it’s unfair, untruthful, and unwise to call sympto-thermal method “very subjective.” Subjectivity implies that the person is practicing NFP based on internal impressions and feelings rather than external facts. The STM, as taught by the Couple to Couple League, is highly objective.

I don’t mean to pick on you, 1ke. In fact, I have a lot of respect for you and what you usually post. It’s just something I’ve noticed here on these board and in real life that when ardent NFP supporters promote their favorite NFP method they often do so by discrediting the other highly valid and beneficial methods. I think this is a dangerous habit, because it causes division within the field of NFP. Although it’s true that a particular method might be more beneficial to certain people depending on their health status, it’s not true that certain methods are inherently greater than all the rest. And, as a friend of mine used to quote, “Every kingdom divided against itself will be laid waste, and no town or house divided against itself will stand.” (Matt 12:25)

 

[1ke]

I like the Creighton method and their medical model. I appreciate the work they do for women with PCOS, endometriosis, etc. But I think it’s unfair, untruthful, and unwise to call sympto-thermal method “very subjective.” Subjectivity implies that the person is practicing NFP based on internal impressions and feelings rather than external facts. The STM, as taught by the Couple to Couple League, is highly objective.

I don’t mean to pick on you, 1ke. In fact, I have a lot of respect for you and what you usually post. It’s just something I’ve noticed here on these board and in real life that when ardent NFP supporters promote their favorite NFP method they often do so by discrediting the other highly valid and beneficial methods. I think this is a dangerous habit, because it causes division within the field of NFP. Although it’s true that a particular method might be more beneficial to certain people depending on their health status, it’s not true that certain methods are inherently greater than all the rest. And, as a friend of mine used to quote, “Every kingdom divided against itself will be laid waste, and no town or house divided against itself will stand.” (Matt 12:25)

I learned STM first, then Creighton. And, indeed, I found the mucus observations to be subjective-- as in not classified and codified by the *method *and left to the individual to come up with their own nomenclature-- and that can be difficult for some women.

I made no statement on the effectiveness of the STM method, certainly it is effective.

And, since you’ve read my posts, you know I often link to **ALL **the NFP sites and suggest that the person choose the method that works best for them.

The OP is the one who brought up that the mucus observation was confusing to her in STM and that she had PCOS. Dr. Hilgers works with such women, and using the Creighton Method is a prerequisite for consulting with him.

The particular classification method of the Creighton model does indeed make it a better choice* for some women*, possibly the OP since she already stated she’s having trouble with STM.

 

[nodito]

I learned STM first, then Creighton. And, indeed, I found the mucus observations to be subjective-- as in not classified and codified by the *method *and left to the individual to come up with their own nomenclature-- and that can be difficult for some women.

I made no statement on the effectiveness of the STM method, certainly it is effective.

And, since you’ve read my posts, you know I often link to **ALL **the NFP sites and suggest that the person choose the method that works best for them.

The OP is the one who brought up that the mucus observation was confusing to her in STM and that she had PCOS. Dr. Hilgers works with such women, and using the Creighton Method is a prerequisite for consulting with him.

The particular classification method of the Creighton model does indeed make it a better choice* for some women*, possibly the OP since she already stated she’s having trouble with STM.

I didn’t catch where the OP said she was practicing STM. My impression of the post was that she wasn’t using temps to confirm ovulation. But I’m all for suggesting to someone another method when one isn’t working well for them.

 

[1ke]

I didn’t catch where the OP said she was practicing STM. My impression of the post was that she wasn’t using temps to confirm ovulation. But I’m all for suggesting to someone another method when one isn’t working well for them.

I guess I actually just infered she was using STM by her terminology and where she referred to “signs” in the plural versus just mucus. But, that could totally be my assumption.

Bottom line, I did not mean to disparage any NFP method.

 

[nodito]

I guess I actually just infered she was using STM by her terminology and where she referred to “signs” in the plural versus just mucus. But, that could totally be my assumption.

Bottom line, I did not mean to disparage any NFP method.

I’m sorry I accused you of it, then.

 

[holly_potter]

Thanks for all the (name removed by moderator)ut! I’m glad to know that the progestin-only actually increases abortions–definitely want to avoid that. It’s a relief to know that the BCP is moral when used for health reasons, and I know it’s not healthy to go so long without a period.

I learned the Creighton method last time I was fed up with my cycles, and the teacher was helpful and since I was single and in college she let me pay less than married couples would have, since all I wanted to do was to figure out what was wrong with me. I was hoping that Hilgers would help me, but when I made an appointment with him he didn’t really do anything, just looked at my chart and told me to come back in a year–and I paid $100 for that sort of non-help, since his office categorized it as fertility treatment, not as a basic gynecology visit. Needless to say, I haven’t gone back, and certainly not now that I don’t have my parents’ health insurance anymore. I attempted the BBT charting once, but as a student my sleeping schedule is unfortunately a bit erratic, and along with it my temperature. And lately my mucus is even more frustrating to chart, because it goes on and on and on…specifically, the ewcm kind.

I do have student health, and I think SHS has a gynecologist that comes in now and then that I can see for free. But I’m afraid of how much the testing will cost, especially since PCOS is kinda elusive to diagnose. Metformin may or may not help me, and whether they let me take metformin depends on my fasting blood sugar levels. (I’ve been doing a ton of research in order to consolidate everything into as few visits as possible). The only thing that really forced my body to work was the Pill, but it made me feel weird when I was hungry.

At least, with the marriage prep, my diocese requires fiance and me to attend a NFP class–in which I intend to ask as many questions about charting when the chart’s unusual. Get my money’s worth, that is.

Anyway, though the moral issue of BCP is a relief, I still wonder if it’s still moral to use at the same time when we intend to use NFP to TTA…(at least until I’m done with the MLS and he’s done with most of his PhD for financial reasons) it’s just a lot easier to chart when my cycles are more normal. I could live with fewer cycles, but I know that it’s not wise to go so long without shedding the lining.

It’s just been kind of a pain, and while my Presbyterian fiance very much respects my beliefs about all this, we’re both getting a bit frustrated. Anyway, thanks for the (name removed by moderator)ut

 

[nodito]

Anyway, though the moral issue of BCP is a relief, I still wonder if it’s still moral to use at the same time when we intend to use NFP to TTA…(at least until I’m done with the MLS and he’s done with most of his PhD for financial reasons) it’s just a lot easier to chart when my cycles are more normal. I could live with fewer cycles, but I know that it’s not wise to go so long without shedding the lining.

Holly,

I’m impressed by how much effort and thought you’re putting into this! That said, I think you’ve missed a key component to this situation.

As you’re probably aware, couples using NFP track their fertility signs to determine when the woman will or will not be able to conceive. But these fertility signs are the result of natural hormones in the body. Your estrogen levels increase as you approach ovulation, and that’s when you experience very wet and stretchy cervical mucus. When you ovulate, your body releases a hormone called progesterone which dries up the cervical mucus and raises your basal body temperature. Without these variations in hormones, you’d have no signs to chart.

The pill puts the woman in a state of pseudo pregnancy by releasing similar hormones (estrogen or progesterone, as the case may be) into the body to suppress ovulation, thicken the cervical mucus, and keep implantation from occuring. This means that when a woman is on the pill, she doesn’t have natural fertility signs to chart. Her hormone levels are constant, so she won’t experience a pattern of cervical mucus or spike in basal body temperature. When she bleeds, it’s not a true period because it hasn’t been preceeded by ovulation; rather, it’s called a withdrawal bleed, because the placebo pills don’t include progesterone. It is not possible to use both BCP and NFP. If you use BCP, you won’t have fertility signs to chart.

I realize that NFP is easier to do if you have regular cycles. But you don’t regularize your cycles by taking BCP, you suppress them. Bith control pills replace not improve your natural cycles. And although they may provide temporary relief from certain PCOS symptoms, these symptoms will return when/if you go off the pill.

I would recommend looking for an NFP-only physician (you can find referrals on omsoul.com) and asking about a sliding fee scale for a college student with no insurance.

God bless.

 

[holly_potter]

Thanks, nodito! I did completely forget about how the BCP suppresses the signs–I got so fed up with the Pill and went off of it about 1 1/2 years ago. (Because of painful, irregular cycles, the gyn put me on the BCP when I was 14—I think-- after giving my body 2 years to try to sort itself out. When I asked, he said it was going to preserve my fertility this way.) This is the longest I’ve been off of the Pill, and I think my body’s relishing the freedom of doing what it wants, when it wants…much to my frustration

There’s a NFP gynecologist in town, and I will ask about the sliding fee scale when I call and ask how much it’s going to be. The hope of the possibility of cheaper care is making me feel better

(right now I’m freaking out about a lot of upcoming expenses–the public library took away my extra summer hours for budget reasons, basic student insurance is going to be about $400 for 6 months I think it was, a cochlear implant check in is going to be $344, parking for school is $200, not to mention books for fall classes…but I know I need to get checked out now, as well. As long as my cycles are, I need a year to have adequate number of periods to treat/chart and get the hang of before marriage…the usual money woes a student has.)

Anyway, thanks for the whack on the side of the head, nodito, can’t believe I forgot that part

 

[nodito]

Anyway, thanks for the whack on the side of the head, nodito, can’t believe I forgot that part

My pleasure.

 

[hurtandhealing]

As a fellow soul cyster, I feel your pain! As you are looking into all your options, check into “estrogen dominance.” This is what happens as you move into those crazy long cycles. Finally, your body gets sick of it, has an “ovulatory event” and proceeds with increase progesterone followed by a period.

If you find a willing doctor, you can treat this with progesterone (not the pill). My understanding is that at a predetermined time in your cycle, you start taking progesterone to stop the estrogen dominance. After you stop the progesterone, you will get your period.

While taking it prior to ovulation will keep you from ovulating that cycle (and of course from seeing any fertile symptoms), it is not taking BCPs with all the side effects which come from those. At the same time, you will see the fertile signs if you move towards ovulation prior to taking the progesterone. So you will be able to use NFP for avoiding pregnancy.

The thing I like to remember is that BCPs doesn’t make anyone work better or regular. From that aspect, all they do is give you a withdrawal bleed every 28 days. Taking the progesterone this way will do the same without being contraceptive.

I hope you can see the NFP gyn in your town. He/she will be able to walk you through this process. BTW, this is what every doctor who has put me on BCPs in the past has done on a one-time basis. Take progestin for 10 days, get a period so that you can start the pill.

 

[holly_potter]

Thanks, hurtandhealing! I hadn’t heard of it before, and will definitely research into that, and ask the gyn about it It’s really nice to know all the possibilities to ask the dr about, and maybe even ask him for some testing, since that’s basically what I need done in order to get to the bottom of this issue–then we’ll know how to solve it. Or at least treat it