Do the mentally "challenged", mentally ill/handicapped/catatonic state people have free will?

[John_Monaco]

I know everyone is born with free will, however I’m curious to know how people in catatonic states, people who are legitimately insane, or any other mind-altering person under the title of mentally handicapped use free will.

if they don’t, for example when they’re acting sparatic because of brain chemicals, how does free will become utlilized?

God bless,

John Monaco

 

[Eucharisted]

Yes, we have free-will.

Some of our actions can’t be controlled, though, it’s like instinct.

 

[jmcrae]

I know everyone is born with free will, however I’m curious to know how people in catatonic states, people who are legitimately insane, or any other mind-altering person under the title of mentally handicapped use free will.

if they don’t, for example when they’re acting sparatic because of brain chemicals, how does free will become utlilized?

God bless,

John Monaco

I suppose it depends upon the handicapped or sick individual. It would vary from person to person, how much ability they have to know the difference between right and wrong, first of all, and then, how much abilty they have to control their own behaviour. I don’t think it’s possible to make any kind of a general statement, since there are mentally challenged persons who have the ability to operate simple businesses on their own, and then you have those who have to be locked up for their own safety and for the safety of others, because they simply don’t know what they are doing, and/or they can’t control themselves.

 

[Hopeful23]

First off, they are not “handicapped” they are people with disabilities note this is not politically correct terminology rather language that puts the person first, but seeing the person and NOT the disability or the life altering state than the answer to your question is of course they have free will. They are people the same as we are and in some instance I know many of my students are much more capable than some people I know socially. Students with disabilities have to jump through more hoops than someone without disabilities in order to receive the respect that they should be accorded just by being alive and still have to fight a social stigma for not being “normal.” (sorry I’ll get off the soap box now I just love my students and can’t wait until I have my own classroom to be able to teach!)

 

[John_Monaco]

Not to sound rude, but no one here is really addressing the question asked. I’m sorry about my misuse of the terminology, the word “retarded” means slow, so I’m not sure if that’s the best one to use.

Anyhow, I’m talking about people who are severely schizophrenic, and can’t control their impulses due to the neuropathways being tampered with, and they go out and (hypothetically) murder somebody. science has shown that their brain chemistry is altered to a point where they cannot make decisions for themselves any longer. well, since we’re all born with free will, is their free will just suppressed or what?

please, i’m extremely curious. i’m not calling out the Catholic Church’s teachings and dogma, I’m just confused. I know science has its part in life, and so does faith. this seems to conflict both of those

 

[jmcrae]

Not to sound rude, but no one here is really addressing the question asked. I’m sorry about my misuse of the terminology, the word “retarded” means slow, so I’m not sure if that’s the best one to use.

Anyhow, I’m talking about people who are severely schizophrenic, and can’t control their impulses due to the neuropathways being tampered with, and they go out and (hypothetically) murder somebody. science has shown that their brain chemistry is altered to a point where they cannot make decisions for themselves any longer. well, since we’re all born with free will, is their free will just suppressed or what?

Who can say what has happened to their free will? I don’t think there is an answer for that, but clearly, in a case like that, the person has lost the use of his or her free will, and is operating according to something in their mind that they simply cannot control.

However, there are also schizophrenics who have the full use of their self-control and their free will, and they function quite well in society - you wouldn’t even notice anything the matter with them, other than one or two quirky behaviours that you would probably attribute to eccentricity more than anything else.

 

[Cathain]

I think even the mentaly handicapped have Free Will, but what is in question is their ability to reason. I think that there are some who may be incapable of reason and in such case they are in the same category as babies, who are not yet able to reason. As such, they may act in ways that would be sinful for us but is not for them since they do not have the ability to understand their actions properly.

 

[davidv]

Not to sound rude, but no one here is really addressing the question asked. I’m sorry about my misuse of the terminology, the word “retarded” means slow, so I’m not sure if that’s the best one to use.

Anyhow, I’m talking about people who are severely schizophrenic, and can’t control their impulses due to the neuropathways being tampered with, and they go out and (hypothetically) murder somebody. science has shown that their brain chemistry is altered to a point where they cannot make decisions for themselves any longer. well, since we’re all born with free will, is their free will just suppressed or what?

please, i’m extremely curious. i’m not calling out the Catholic Church’s teachings and dogma, I’m just confused. I know science has its part in life, and so does faith. this seems to conflict both of those

It seems to me that our capacity, or lack thereof, to carry out our will has no bearing on whether we have one or not. Of course, over time our limitation may lead us not to consider those choices that we cannot implement. It is also appears that if a physical or mental condition causes our body to do things against our will (seizures, for instance) that we have lost freedom, but our will remains intact.

 

[KyivAndrew]

Anyhow, I’m talking about people who are severely schizophrenic, and can’t control their impulses due to the neuropathways being tampered with, and they go out and (hypothetically) murder somebody. science has shown that their brain chemistry is altered to a point where they cannot make decisions for themselves any longer. well, since we’re all born with free will, is their free will just suppressed or what?

Hi John…I’ve also pondered this quite a bit. We had a thread on suffering on this forum not too long ago and, while God’s gift of free will went into part of the explanation of why one suffers, ultimately there is an ineffable mystery to suffering, which even the Pope acknowledged. It stems from the Fall I believe and all its repurcusions.

And yes I have seen incredibly ill people (whether schizophrenic, manic-depression) resistant to medications whose heads basically become storms of unreality, hallucinations, paranoia, and little if any concept of the world around them with deluded understanding of right and wrong. Some of the homeless may fall into this category.

The way I see it these poor souls are the ones Jesus spoke of in his Beatitudes: “Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the Kingdom of Heaven.” They are put here to be those lesser brethren unto whom we do either good or bad which is done ultimately unto Jesus, the least of our brethren. But who is last shall become first we are promised. There is much we as a society must do to help them, especially anyone prone to violence because of severe developmental or psychiatric illness.

Malcolm Muggeridge, the world famous British journalist who, according to the late William F. Buckley, brought more of the English-speaking world to Christianity than many others, always argued in his reflections on Jesus and suffering that it was in the “insane asylums” that one could find the holy. Maybe an extreme view, maybe not.

There is much for thought on studying this mystery and maybe someone else knows some more from the Church’s view on this? God Bless.