Do these priesthood references eliminate their authority? Please help!

[Mr_Ignatius]

Hi all this is my first post on CA. I’m truly thankful that we do have a source like this to help those seeking to know more.

Aside, my girlfriend is protestant and she pointed out in 1 Peter 2 there are references of a ‘holy priesthood’ and a ‘royal priesthood’ which at first glance seem to be implying that we are all called to be priests in our lives. This was to back up why she ‘does not believe in the requirement of priests’ - as Jesus is our one and only high priest.

I’m not familiar with 1 Peter and so I could not give an explanation right away. I did mention that perhaps it was written to those with authority or something like a community of priests (to also point out that the bible is sometimes too difficult to correctly interpret on your own).

Can someone please help me with this! Is she interpreting it incorrectly? What is the correct interpretation?

Example passage:
1 Peter 2:9 “But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, God’s own people in order that you may proclaim the mighty acts of him who called you out of darkness into his marvelous light”

God bless and thanks in advance

 

[robertkchacon]

As is so often the case, Catholicism is a religion of “both…and”. This passage does NOT contradict the Catholic priesthood in the least. However, she is right that we as Christians are all called to be a royal priesthood. Royal, because we are sons and daughters of the King. Priesthood because we are to bring God to the people. However, in what way does this mean that there is not a priesthood of the “overseers” or elders or presbyters - the bishops? It does not. The Catholic priesthood is the both the priesthood of the people AND the priesthood of the Apostles. Both bring Christ to the world. Both are a royal priesthood of the King. The priests of the sacraments however, are also the elders or presbyters or bishop who were called to celebrate the Eucharist,baptize and confirm the new Christian, to forgive men’s sins through Christ, to anoint new bishops, to anoint the sick and dying. All the Disciples were NOT called perform these sacraments but the Apostles were and our bishops and priests are their direct successors. Not you and me.

 

[Cathoholic]

Welcome aboard to CAF Mr. Ignatius.

You asked:

Aside, my girlfriend is protestant and she pointed out in 1 Peter 2 there are references of a ‘holy priesthood’ and a ‘royal priesthood’ which at first glance seem to be implying that we are all called to be priests in our lives. This was to back up why she ‘does not believe in the requirement of priests’ - as Jesus is our one and only high priest.

Let’s break it down.

. . . . she pointed out in 1 Peter 2 there are references of a ‘holy priesthood’ and a ‘royal priesthood’ which at first glance seem to be implying that we are all called to be priests in our lives

We are all called to be Priests, she is correct on that.

This “common Priesthood” is the New Covenant fulfillment of Exodus 19:6, the common Priesthood which all the Israelites were called to be part of in the Old Covenant.

This was to back up why she ‘does not believe in the requirement of priests’ - as Jesus is our one and only high priest.

WHY affirm we are “all” be called to be priests then turn around and essentially deny the Priesthood? That would be a self-contradiction.

My guess is, she is thinking: “Why have ‘ministerial’ Priests?”

If you want I can take a crack at that, or if the above is all that is necessary, that’s fine too.

There is one authentic Priesthood Mr. Ignatius. The Priesthood of Jesus Christ.

There are different “shares” into or “participations” of or “koinonia” of that ONE Priesthood of Jesus’.

• The priesthood of all believers (that’d be people like you and I).
• The ministerial priesthood. That is like your Priest at the Parish.
• The Episcopacy. The Bishop’s office. An example of that is your diocesan Bishop.

Here is how I phrased it on another thread here at CAF (with a spelling correction):

In the New Covenant there is one Priesthood. Jesus Christ.

The Bishops share in that Ministerial Priesthood of Jesus’ quite deeply.

Ordained Priests share in this priesthood too, but to a “lesser” extent than Bishops.

All Baptized Christians also share in Christ’s Priesthood (but differently or “lesser” than the ordained Priests and Bishops). You and I are priests in this sense (the Priesthood of all the faithful or “the priesthood of all believers”). This is sometimes called “the common priesthood”.

All of these below share to a different extent in the one Priesthood of Jesus Christ

• Bishops
• Priests
• Baptized (The “Common Priesthood”)

1 Peter 2:9 draws on this ancient concept from the Old Covenant and applies it to the New. Now instead of based on nationality it is based upon Jesus Christ and brought to its fulfillment.

1 Peter 2:9 refers to the priesthood of all believers.

CCC 1141 The celebrating assembly is the community of the baptized who, "by regeneration and the anointing of the Holy Spirit, are consecrated to be a spiritual house and a holy priesthood, that through all the works of Christian men they may offer spiritual sacrifices."9 This “common priesthood” is that of Christ the sole priest, in which all his members participate:10

Mother Church earnestly desires that all the faithful should be led to that full, conscious, and active participation in liturgical celebrations which is demanded by the very nature of the liturgy, and to which the Christian people, “a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a redeemed people,” have a right and an obligation by reason of their Baptism.11​

Bold CCC (Catechism of the Catholic Church) above mine

Hope this helps.

God bless.

Cathoholic

 

[Mr_Ignatius]

Thanks to both of you for taking time out to help me. I appreciate it

Yes I do believe she means the ministerial priests. I also mentioned how priests during the sacraments act as Jesus - correct me if I’m wrong, maybe the way I said it is off. In persona christi right? I think this is what threw her off the priest train. She once replied, ‘yeah and that is especially what I’m not okay with. Priests being like Jesus’.

Would someone have any tips/ideas on how to explain priesthood in a simple way, especially to protestants (she’s Presbyterian) who see priests as people put up on a pedestal when they should not?

One more thing, if you may. Like other protestant friends she says something like, Jesus came to end the old testament sacrifices and died to enable our relationship with God. He is our one and only high priest. There is no need for any mediators (referring to priests) other than Him. - How can I respond to something like this?

God bless friends

 

[fhansen]

Thanks to both of you for taking time out to help me. I appreciate it

Yes I do believe she means the ministerial priests. I also mentioned how priests during the sacraments act as Jesus - correct me if I’m wrong, maybe the way I said it is off. In persona christi right? I think this is what threw her off the priest train. She once replied, ‘yeah and that is especially what I’m not okay with. Priests being like Jesus’.

Would someone have any tips/ideas on how to explain priesthood in a simple way, especially to protestants (she’s Presbyterian) who see priests as people put up on a pedestal when they should not?

One more thing, if you may. Like other protestant friends she says something like, Jesus came to end the old testament sacrifices and died to enable our relationship with God. He is our one and only high priest. There is no need for any mediators (referring to priests) other than Him. - How can I respond to something like this?

God bless friends

There’s a good discussion on this topic here: newadvent.org/cathen/12409a.htm

 

[zz912]

Thanks to both of you for taking time out to help me. I appreciate it

Yes I do believe she means the ministerial priests. I also mentioned how priests during the sacraments act as Jesus - correct me if I’m wrong, maybe the way I said it is off. In persona christi right? I think this is what threw her off the priest train. She once replied, ‘yeah and that is especially what I’m not okay with. Priests being like Jesus’.

“in persona Christi” means “in the person of Christ”. They are acting in His Person. When Jesus gave the Apostles authority, did they forgive sins through their own power, or through the power of Jesus? Obviously through Jesus’ power. But Jesus said “whose sins YOU forgive are forgiven, whose sins YOU retain are retained”. It is something the Apostles are doing. So the Apostles were personally acting, but they were channels of Christ’s grace. Hope that helps.

Would someone have any tips/ideas on how to explain priesthood in a simple way, especially to protestants (she’s Presbyterian) who see priests as people put up on a pedestal when they should not?

I would ask her about the ordaining that St. Paul performed on Timothy, and how St. Paul gave Timothy directions on who he was to ordain in the future, and how those men should ordain. There is no reference to when this ordaining should end. I would also discuss more the Gosple accounts of the Last Supper, and John 6. These are rituals that Christ is instituting for His Apostles to keep doing.

Also, as to a pedestal, that is a perjorative way of describing it. Ask her if we should honor them or not. And then both of you read and reflect on Acts 20:28, Lev 19:32, Rom 13:7, Eph 6:1, Rom 13:1-7, and especially 1 Pet 5:5.

One more thing, if you may. Like other protestant friends she says something like, Jesus came to end the old testament sacrifices and died to enable our relationship with God. He is our one and only high priest. There is no need for any mediators (referring to priests) other than Him. - How can I respond to something like this?

God bless friends

He didn’t end the OT sacrifices, He perfected them in His sacrifice, which we participate in at Mass. We participate in the eternal sacrifice of the Son to the Father through the Holy Spirit. And you can’t get closer or more in relationship than to partake of Jesus in the Eucharist.

As to Jesus as our one mediator, we agree. But there are many people who help to direct us (mediate if you will) to Jesus. Or did she not have someone instruct her about Jesus? Did she personally write out the Bible? Did she have an epiphany like St. Paul and was enlightened to everything about the Christian faith? Or did someone help her in bringing her to Christ?

 

[kkollwitz]

I cover this in catechism class. You might look at these two posts:

platytera.blogspot.com/2014/01/pitchers-19.html

platytera.blogspot.com/2011/05/royal-priesthood.html

 

[Cathoholic]

Mr Ignatius. You said:

In persona christi right?

Ask her if she affirms the concept of Jesus carrying out His ministry in and through people in ANY SENSE.

Ask her if she affirms the concept of Jesus carrying out His ministry in and through ANYONE . . . . in persona Christi.

If she says “yes”, tell her “THAT is an example of the ministerial priesthood.

If she says “no”, explain to her, St. Paul explicitly talked about he himself working in persona Christi (I talked about that some here).

She will be taught to deny that. She will say this is not “sacramental”.

She will almost have to say that.

Let her dwell on the verses and see at least the concept of Jesus working in and through somebody (in this case St. Paul) in such a profound way.

You also said:

There is no need for any mediators (referring to priests) other than Him. - How can I respond to something like this?

1st TIMOTHY 2:5 5 For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus

The Greek word for “one” as in “one mediator” is transliterated (I didn’t look up the exact Greek here for this post) “hay-eese” (heis). This allows secondary mediation.

The Greek word “monos” could have been used which would be more exclusive. But it wasn’t.

That’s WHY several verses earlier you are NOT told we cannot pray on behalf of other people.

NOT 1st TIMOTHY 2:1-4 (Phantom Verse) 1 First of all, then, you people cannot make supplications, prayers, intercessions, and thanksgivings for all men, 2 for kings and all who are in high positions, that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life, godly and respectful in every way. 3 Because if you try to do this, you will be trying to mediate between God and men. It is a terrible thing to try to do this mediation between God and men and totally unacceptable in the sight of God.

No! That would be non-sense. The issue isn’t can we “mediate between God and men”. The issue is HOW does Jesus “mediate between God and men”.

And the answer is Jesus mediated on Calvary all by Himself, but He CONTINUES to mediate in us and through us as well. That’s WHY St. Peter can say we are “partakers” of the Divine nature. That’s WHY St. Paul tells us we have a “participation” or a “koinonia” in Christ.

That’s WHY several verses earlier you and I are told to pray on behalf of other people.

1st TIMOTHY 2:1-4 1 First of all, then, I urge that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and thanksgivings be made for all men, 2 for kings and all who are in high positions, that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life, godly and respectful in every way. 3 This is good, and it is acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, 4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

The issue is HOW does Jesus mediate between God and men, not “**can **we mediate apart from Jesus Christ” (as we cannot “mediate” apart from Christ in any sense).

She is going to be taught “On Calvary all by Himself. And that’s it!”

You are going to say: “That’s partially true. Jesus DOES work on Calvary all by Himself. But now Jesus works IN AND THROUGH Christians too!

We have the Divine life of Jesus within us so that’s WHY we CAN make “supplications . . . for all men.”

That is part of our exercise as the Priesthood of all believers.

Now she may come back and say: “OK. I see that. But WHY differing shares?” Or “Where in the Bible are differing shares of this Priesthood”?

And if she does that, begin a thread on it or PM me. But let her get the concept of “persona Christi” down and the concept of “participation in Christ” down first.

As a Catholic, this is second nature to you (we are very blessed to be Catholic).

It is tough for Catholics to appreciate the effect these non-Catholic people have from the cradle-on, getting only a partial Gospel.

Just as an aside: She may also assert “limited atonement” or that Jesus does not desire “all men to be saved”. Just be aware of that (I won’t get into it on this thread). That’s why I bolded it in 1st Timothy 2:4. Just as a “heads up” for next week’s question she may have for you.

 

[Mr_Ignatius]

Thanks again for the help guys.

Especially Cathoholic! There’s already a lot for me to grasp there haha give me time and I will probably require help with another question.

Catholicism is so darn complex, but I truly feel blessed to be born into the faith.

 

[pablope]

Thanks again for the help guys.

Especially Cathoholic! There’s already a lot for me to grasp there haha give me time and I will probably require help with another question.

Catholicism is so darn complex, but I truly feel blessed to be born into the faith.

Share this article with her from Jimmy Akin on the priesthood of all believers and the ministerial priesthood:

ewtn.com/library/ANSWERS/PRIEST3.HTM