Do this IN MEMORY OF me

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Philthy

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One of the arguments presented in support of a figurative interpretation of John 6 is that Jesus tells us to partake of the Eucharist “in memory of” him, not as anything more significant than that. My dim memory recalls that the contextual greek for that verse meant something significantly for 1st century Jews than it does for us now. Im positive Scott Hahn discusses this nuance, but I have forgotten - can anyone please help with a fuller translation/interpretation of what “in memory of me” means?

thanks,

Phil
 
Here’s something which might help…

americancatholic.org/Newsletters/JES/aq0605.asp
"…When we “remember Jesus” at the Eucharist, we move from our chronological past-present-future kind of time and pass over into God’s own “time of salvation” where past-present-future merge into God’s eternal now. When we sing, “Were you there when they crucified my Lord?” the presumed answer is, “Yes, I was there!” Indeed, we are there now!

“Thus recalling the mysteries of redemption, it opens up to the faithful the riches of the Lord’s powers and merits, so that these are in some way made present at all times; the faithful lay hold of them and are filled with saving grace” (Constitution on the Sacred Liturgy, #102). In a real yet mysterious way we become present with the apostles at the Last Supper. We are there on Calvary. With the apostles we witness the Resurrection and the sending of the Spirit. We stand with all the angels and saints and have a foretaste of the heavenly banquet!

Each Eucharist begins with the Liturgy of the Word. Hearing the voice of Christ himself, we remember. And in that remembering we become present to the mystery of faith. We are filled with the Spirit, inspired to pledge our lives to one another and to become one body. We seal that pledge by sharing a sacred meal. And that is the subject of the next article in this series."
 
The earliest written account of the institution of the Eucharist is found in 1 Cor. 11:23-26. The phrase “Do this in memory of me” appears here, as well as in Luke 22:19. The Greek word (anamnasis) is the same in both cases. According to one scholarly source: “The word indicates to call back again into memory a vivid experience” (Rienecker & Rogers, Linguistic Key to the Greek New Testament, p. 426).

The important question, however, is this: What is the “this” that we are to do “in memory of Him?” In other words, what is the nature of the Eucharistic sacrifice? What actually occurs when we perform “this” Eucharist in His memory? In Catholic doctrine, the term “transubstantiation” has been coined to describe what it is that we are to do “in memory of Him.”

So, we are instructed by Christ to “do” something in His memory, and this something involves the true body and blood of our Lord.

In Christ,
Don
 
This is one of those areas where it would have helped to have been raised Jewish…

During the Passover Seder meal, there are a series of questions asked to four different children. One of these is to the “wicked child”:
One of the four prototypical children of the seder is the “wicked child”, whom the author of the haggadah designates as such because of the Biblical question ascribed to him, “What is this service (avodah) to you?” (Exodus 12:26).
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And the response…
The haggadah’s answer to this child also seems unduly harsh. " ‘(What is this service to you,’ and not to him. And because he took himself out of the historic Jewish community, he denied the basic principle. And so you must set his teeth on edge (hak’he), and tell him, “It is because of this (ritual) that G-d did for me (so many wonders) in taking me out of Egypt” (Exodus 13:8). ‘G-d did for me’ and not for him! Had he been there, he would not have been redeemed!"
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Not for “my ancestors”…for “me”. Remember, this isn’t Christ’s death that we’re talking about…it’s the Passover, which was to be remembered for all times. In the Hebrew mindset, however, remember is far more than recalling a history; it’s a bringing to the present together with the past. When the Passover is celebrated, the celebrants are the ones passed over, not just their ancestors. That is why the wicked child is so name, and why the response is pointed.

God Bless,
RyanL
 
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Donald45:
The earliest written account of the institution of the Eucharist is found in 1 Cor. 11:23-26. The phrase “Do this in memory of me” appears here, as well as in Luke 22:19. The Greek word (anamnasis) is the same in both cases. According to one scholarly source: “The word indicates to call back again into memory a vivid experience” (Rienecker & Rogers, Linguistic Key to the Greek New Testament, p. 426).

The important question, however, is this: What is the “this” that we are to do “in memory of Him?” In other words, what is the nature of the Eucharistic sacrifice? What actually occurs when we perform “this” Eucharist in His memory? In Catholic doctrine, the term “transubstantiation” has been coined to describe what it is that we are to do “in memory of Him.”

So, we are instructed by Christ to “do” something in His memory, and this something involves the true body and blood of our Lord.

In Christ,
Don
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Don:

From my understanding of the word anamnasis, The Lord is saying that we are taken back to the Last Supper and the Christ’s Crucifixion so that we are eyewitnesses in the Spirit.

One question, if the Protestant interpretation were correct, why would St. Paul say?

*Therefore whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord unworthily will have to answer for the body and blood of the Lord.

A person should examine himself, and so eat the bread and drink the cup. For anyone who eats and drinks without discerning the body, eats and drinks judgment on himself. That is why many among you are ill and infirm, and a considerable number are dying.

If we discerned ourselves, we would not be under judgment; but since we are judged by (the) Lord, we are being disciplined so that we may not be condemned along with the world. I Cor 11:27-32 NAB*

And, Why would St. Paul have also stated that we participate in the sacrifice of Christ on the cross when we participate in and receive the Eucharist.

The cup of blessing that we bless, is it not a participation in the blood of Christ? The bread that we break, is it not a participation in the body of Christ? Because the loaf of bread is one, we, though many, are one body, for we all partake of the one loaf. Look at Israel according to the flesh; are not those who eat the sacrifices participants in the altar? I Cor 10:16-18 NAB

It’s a pity that the English word “Remembrance” doesn’t come close to communicating these realities, but that doesn’t mean that the deeper and far more powerful reality isn’t there.

In Christ, Michael
 
We’re OK as Catholics. We do receive communion in memory of Him. However, unlike many groups we don’t ignore the “this is my body part”. We do both. Most people who show the 'in memory" verse to a catholic think it is an either/or situation - you either do it in memory OR receive Christ. But it is an AND situation - you do both.

As to the Greek, I haven’t got time to look it up atm.
 
Drat! RyanL beat me to the punch!

As someone who’s celebrated more than a couple Passover Seders, let me just back up what he said. “Remember” is an unfortunately limited translation of the concept, and even the Greek “anamnesis” is an approximation, though it’s much closer. Rest assured, when we celebrate the Mass, we are literally in the Upper Room two thousand years ago. In a certain sense the “real presence” works both ways during Mass.

Peace and God bless!
 
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Philthy:
One of the arguments presented in support of a figurative interpretation of John 6 is that Jesus tells us to partake of the Eucharist “in memory of” him, not as anything more significant than that. My dim memory recalls that the contextual greek for that verse meant something significantly for 1st century Jews than it does for us now. Im positive Scott Hahn discusses this nuance, but I have forgotten - can anyone please help with a fuller translation/interpretation of what “in memory of me” means?

thanks,

Phil
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I’ve only done a cursory look at the thread, so maybe someone has said this. I think that this might be in the Talmud, but I could be wrong. I know that it used to be something rabbis were taught. Every Jew at some point in his life should experience the original, historical Passover – not remember it, not meditate on it, but experience it. The word used in the Bible that is translated “in remembrance of” was the same word that Greek-speaking Jews used to refer to the way that the Passover was “in remembrance of” the exodus. I’m being a little disorganized in my writing here, and I apologize, but the basic gist is that we as 21st century Americans no longer grasp the full meaning of what Jesus was saying. The Greek word used was “anamnesis,” which in context means “re-experience.” This is not language asking His disciples to use symbols to recall or meditate on his death. This is language asking the disciples to re-experience Christ Himself, using the sacraments of His Body and Blood given for them.
 
When the Jewish community celebrates Passover with a Passover Seder meal, in remembering that event, they participate in it. Their understanding is that they themselves are being freed from slavery, they are walking with Moses through the sea, and God is leading them through the wilderness to the promised land.

In the Jewish culture to remember means something different that it is often understood today. For Jesus to remember, is not a mental exercise, a thinking about something that happened in the past. Rather to remember is to make the past present with us now so that we can participate in it. In other words, to remember someone is to make them alive and present with us now, and to remember an event is to participate in that event as it becomes real in the present.
 
Traditional Ang:
Don:

From my understanding of the word anamnasis, The Lord is saying that we are taken back to the Last Supper and the Christ’s Crucifixion so that we are eyewitnesses in the Spirit.

One question, if the Protestant interpretation were correct, why would St. Paul say?

*Therefore whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord unworthily will have to answer for the body and blood of the Lord. *

A person should examine himself, and so eat the bread and drink the cup. For anyone who eats and drinks without discerning the body, eats and drinks judgment on himself. That is why many among you are ill and infirm, and a considerable number are dying.

If we discerned ourselves, we would not be under judgment; but since we are judged by (the) Lord, we are being disciplined so that we may not be condemned along with the world. I Cor 11:27-32 NAB

And, Why would St. Paul have also stated that we participate in the sacrifice of Christ on the cross when we participate in and receive the Eucharist.

The cup of blessing that we bless, is it not a participation in the blood of Christ? The bread that we break, is it not a participation in the body of Christ? Because the loaf of bread is one, we, though many, are one body, for we all partake of the one loaf. Look at Israel according to the flesh; are not those who eat the sacrifices participants in the altar? I Cor 10:16-18 NAB

It’s a pity that the English word “Remembrance” doesn’t come close to communicating these realities, but that doesn’t mean that the deeper and far more powerful reality isn’t there.

In Christ, Michael
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Thanks for those very helpful comments. I agree that the term “remembrance” has a much deeper meaning than it might at first appear. Along with the texts you cited, and the Church’s eucharistic theology, the general Protestant concept of “the Lord’s Supper” as a mere commemoration fails to offer the fullness of this age-old act of Christian worship. The Eucharist is indeed a commemoration, but it is so much more.

Truly,
Don
 
Greater minds than mind has pointed out that we need to go back to the original meaning and context of scripture, and not overlay our present understand of the language indiscriminately. Thanks to all who have taught me that.

Perhaps we would be more focused if we also noted that the NT never mentions “the last supper.” That was a painting by Da Vinci.

Jesus’ passover meal was not a dour celebration with a condemned man who was on death row – as we might picture a convict eating fried chicken and ice cream as a last earthly pleasure. If we appreciated more what a Passover celebration or observance was, we would be closer to the sentiment of Jesus and his disciples at the time.

Even the Vatican uses the term “Last Supper” but the superficial idea embedded in those words is far distant from the penultimate and definitive Passover celebration that Jesus had with the twelve men symbolizing the Chosen People.
 
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RyanL:
This is one of those areas where it would have helped to have been raised Jewish…

During the Passover Seder meal, there are a series of questions asked to four different children. One of these is to the “wicked child”:

And the response…

Not for “my ancestors”…for “me”. Remember, this isn’t Christ’s death that we’re talking about…it’s the Passover, which was to be remembered for all times. In the Hebrew mindset, however, remember is far more than recalling a history; it’s a bringing to the present together with the past. When the Passover is celebrated, the celebrants are the ones passed over, not just their ancestors. That is why the wicked child is so name, and why the response is pointed.

God Bless,
RyanL
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Ryan -

Thank you for this perspective. I am having trouble putting together your ideas, however. The “response” that you quote does not seem like a coherent sentence, and I can’t tie it in to the question posed to the wicked child. Would you mind(or anyone else that feels they grasped the point of Ryan’s post) clarifying the relationship between this event and the “in remembrance” wording? I have gained much from your insightful posts and I don’t want to miss what you are contributing here.

Phil
 
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YinYangMom:
Here’s something which might help…

americancatholic.org/Newsletters/JES/aq0605.asp
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Hello YinYangMom! :yup:

Thanks for the link and your time!

I’ve included some additional stuff from the article which expands on the use of the word “remember” from that article, and which would help communicate that fuller meaning to a nonCatholic.
above link:
“When we “remember” Jesus at the Eucharist, we are not simply recalling past events; liturgical remembering makes us present to the event. Notice how the word remember is used in the crucifixion account in Luke’s Gospel: When one of the criminals crucified with Jesus asked him to “remember me when you come into your kingdom” he wasn’t asking Jesus simply to “think about him” as we might remember people that we met on vacation last summer. He was asking the Lord to remember him in the biblical/ liturgical sense of the word. He was asking to be remembered, that is, to become really present in heaven with Jesus. We can see that this is how Jesus understands remembering. Jesus responds, “Amen, I say to you, today you will be with me in Paradise” (Luke 23:42-43; italics added).”

Phil
 
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