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godsent
Guest
do we really discriminate against women,i mean,what have we done for women,we all have equal rights,but have we ever done anything in favour of women,and do you everthink we will?
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do we really discriminate against women,i mean,what have we done for women,we all have equal rights,but have we ever done anything in favour of women,and do you everthink we will?
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Grace_and_Glory
Guest
I recommend that you look at the article “Women’s Great Liberator”.
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cathyt
Guest
I feel liberated by the Church b/c the Church lets me be who I truly am, a unique creature of God, rather than asking me to become a false vision of “equal” created by society. The Church respects me enough to challenge me to live a life that is according to the example of Christ. That example requires me to sacrifice in some ways, but it doesn’t ask only women to sacrifice; all are asked to lay down something in service.
Thanks for the article, “Grace.”
Thanks for the article, “Grace.”
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1ke
Guest
godsent said:
Who is “we”?
If you mean the Church then, no… aboslutely not.
.
O
OriginalJS
Guest
This is an extremely broad question that is difficult to answer but here is my effort:
Yes and no. To discriminate means merely to make and follow a reasoned decision between people or things in various circumstances. Everybody who thinks discriminates about everything from people one chooses to be with to the foods one buys at the store.
The real issue is whether such discrimination is either legally or ethically wrong. As to wrongful legal and ethical discrimination against women, it is likely some Catholics do and some don’t.
The Church does not discriminate against anyone; the Church does discriminate* between* men and women. (And between other groups as well.) If you accept the teaching of the Magisterium, then for you there should be nothing ethically wrong with the way the Church discriminates between men and women. If you do not, then you may feel that because the Church denies a sacrament to women that is available to men, wrongful ethical discrimination is taking place.
Yes and no. To discriminate means merely to make and follow a reasoned decision between people or things in various circumstances. Everybody who thinks discriminates about everything from people one chooses to be with to the foods one buys at the store.
The real issue is whether such discrimination is either legally or ethically wrong. As to wrongful legal and ethical discrimination against women, it is likely some Catholics do and some don’t.
The Church does not discriminate against anyone; the Church does discriminate* between* men and women. (And between other groups as well.) If you accept the teaching of the Magisterium, then for you there should be nothing ethically wrong with the way the Church discriminates between men and women. If you do not, then you may feel that because the Church denies a sacrament to women that is available to men, wrongful ethical discrimination is taking place.
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Catholic2003
Guest
It is important to distinguish between the Church and the individual members of the Church. For example, if a particular priest doesn’t allow women in his parish to be readers or EMHC’s, then this is discrimination on the part of the priest, who is acting on his own accord, and not from the authority of the Church.
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Tantum_ergo
Guest
When did “discrimination” become a dirty word?
To have a “discriminating palate” even in the 1960s and 1970s meant that one had good taste (in all senses) and made a preferential choice based not on good v. bad but on better v. best. (very different things)
Also, I do believe that a given priest may prefer to have male deacons administer Holy Communion and male lectors read. Women “may” read; that also means that they “may not”, correct? We are not “entitled” to read or administer communion whether we are male or female–it is a responsibility, not a “right”, and I for one would have no problem with having all male readers and EMHCs, despite having several years’ experience myself as a woman who read. My participation in Mass and my life as a Christian does not hang on whether I’m standing up on the altar or the lectern distributing Communion or reading the 1st and 2nd readings, after all. If I need “recognition” that way, I’ll join a reading circle or a theatre group, thanks all the same.
To have a “discriminating palate” even in the 1960s and 1970s meant that one had good taste (in all senses) and made a preferential choice based not on good v. bad but on better v. best. (very different things)
Also, I do believe that a given priest may prefer to have male deacons administer Holy Communion and male lectors read. Women “may” read; that also means that they “may not”, correct? We are not “entitled” to read or administer communion whether we are male or female–it is a responsibility, not a “right”, and I for one would have no problem with having all male readers and EMHCs, despite having several years’ experience myself as a woman who read. My participation in Mass and my life as a Christian does not hang on whether I’m standing up on the altar or the lectern distributing Communion or reading the 1st and 2nd readings, after all. If I need “recognition” that way, I’ll join a reading circle or a theatre group, thanks all the same.
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BlindSheep
Guest
What has the Church done for women? Only give us the body and blood of our Lord Jesus Christ, and the fullness of Truth, the forgiveness of sin, as well as recognising the holy lives of countless female saints, and female doctors of the Church and theologians, educating women in the days when it was otherwise unusual and recognising our equal dignity even when and where the rest of society didn’t. Also, in this day and age, the Church actually recognises the unique genius of woman while the rest of society pressures us to imitate men. Since her earliest days the Church stood up for the rights and dignity of women, and affirmed the goodness of femininity through her veneration of the Blessed Virgin Mary. The Catholic Church has far more respect for femininity than either protestantism or secular humanism - and a philosophy which does not value femininity sees all women as more or less flawed, since all women are more or less feminine.
As a woman, I feel much better about myself, much more secure in my worth as a human being since I became a Catholic.
As a woman, I feel much better about myself, much more secure in my worth as a human being since I became a Catholic.
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LoneRanger
Guest
NOT ME!..maybe Tonto does…
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Tantum_ergo
Guest
Bravo! Nice to know that this feeling is one shared by cradle Catholic women and our convert Catholic sisters.
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crusader4life
Guest
A true Catholic (or the Church) does not discriminate anyone. God created two sexes and their differences are manifested and glorified in the Church. From our point of view (or from a human perspective) it would probably look like that “we” discriminate women, but through the eyes of God we see that the differences are strengths and makes both men and women even more special. If we try to make one of the sexes exactly equal with the other, we are degrading both sexes and the goodness of the uniqueness.
Women are truly special, and they are equal with men (and visa versa). Women just don’t have the same roles as men, as men don’t have the same roles as women. You don’t see a banker doing a surgon’s operation. This doesn’t mean women are only to be stay at home mothers. We are all called to use our talents, increase them, and use them to glorify God.
If you study John Paul II’s Theology of the Body, it explains these points and more. Theology of the Body also shows how precious women (and men) are and how the differences of the sexes fit together perfectly into God’s plan for us in Heaven.
Women are truly special, and they are equal with men (and visa versa). Women just don’t have the same roles as men, as men don’t have the same roles as women. You don’t see a banker doing a surgon’s operation. This doesn’t mean women are only to be stay at home mothers. We are all called to use our talents, increase them, and use them to glorify God.
If you study John Paul II’s Theology of the Body, it explains these points and more. Theology of the Body also shows how precious women (and men) are and how the differences of the sexes fit together perfectly into God’s plan for us in Heaven.
J
JCPhoenix
Guest
NO! The Church does NOT discriminate against women.
Speaking as a woman, by the way. (I know my handle is androgynous)
The Church is the only place I can go where I dont’ have to pretend, I don’t have to put up a fight, I don’t have to put up a front and I don’t have to compete with men. I get to go there and be the person God made me to be and learn how to be that person outside in the world.
The Church doesn’t hold to stereotypes, just encourages us to embrace our feminity and holds up the mother of Jesus as our Spiritual Mother, seeking to elevate us to heaven…not bring heaven down to our level.
The world makes me so tired with it’s moral relativism, feminism which seeks to undermine female-ness at our very core, and constant spiritual beatings. When I, as a woman, walk into the Church, I am looked upon as a Child of God, a woman after God’s own heart and I am embraced by the community as an important member of that community…even if I simply sit in the pew and participate in the Mass in the most common way.
The accusations against the Church come from the evil one, not from concerned women…those who create this rucus are not looking for equality in the church…they are looking for power and they have no understanding of God’s plan or humility. They have not understood the teachings of Christ or the example of his Mother.
I thank God for the Church his Son created…it is the only true haven left for women anywhere in this world.
Speaking as a woman, by the way. (I know my handle is androgynous)
The Church is the only place I can go where I dont’ have to pretend, I don’t have to put up a fight, I don’t have to put up a front and I don’t have to compete with men. I get to go there and be the person God made me to be and learn how to be that person outside in the world.
The Church doesn’t hold to stereotypes, just encourages us to embrace our feminity and holds up the mother of Jesus as our Spiritual Mother, seeking to elevate us to heaven…not bring heaven down to our level.
The world makes me so tired with it’s moral relativism, feminism which seeks to undermine female-ness at our very core, and constant spiritual beatings. When I, as a woman, walk into the Church, I am looked upon as a Child of God, a woman after God’s own heart and I am embraced by the community as an important member of that community…even if I simply sit in the pew and participate in the Mass in the most common way.
The accusations against the Church come from the evil one, not from concerned women…those who create this rucus are not looking for equality in the church…they are looking for power and they have no understanding of God’s plan or humility. They have not understood the teachings of Christ or the example of his Mother.
I thank God for the Church his Son created…it is the only true haven left for women anywhere in this world.
K
kaymart
Guest
I believe that the Catholic Church treats us women with the upmost repect, more so then most other Religions.
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Lisa_N
Guest
JC Phoenix, what a lovely post! Thank you for sharing your thoughts. You have many ‘sisters’ in the pews who feel the same way. The secular world constantly belittles women for being women, tells them they are victims because they aren’t men, degrades their uniqueness and feminine qualities, belittles marriage and motherhood. The church truly honors women and honors their true nature. I also find it a safe refuge.
Lisa N
Lisa N
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Mike_Olson
Guest
This is a masterpiece. I second all that you have said!
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OriginalJS
Guest
Tantum ergo:
With the civil rights movement came court opinions which inveighed against “unlawful discrimination.” Sloppy use of language quickly shortened the prohibited conduct to “discrimination,” and the word took on the context of being odious and illegal. That is where it is today. I should accept that, but I won’t, just like I won’t accept “quality” as an adjective, and despise hearing the word “less” used for “fewer.”
Until the very late 1950s discriminate, discrimination, and discriminating were positive words that reflected personal habits of being carefully and thoughtfully selective about association with persons and things. Herbert Tareyton was a brand of cigarette that advertised itself as being for “discriminating smokers.”
With the civil rights movement came court opinions which inveighed against “unlawful discrimination.” Sloppy use of language quickly shortened the prohibited conduct to “discrimination,” and the word took on the context of being odious and illegal. That is where it is today. I should accept that, but I won’t, just like I won’t accept “quality” as an adjective, and despise hearing the word “less” used for “fewer.”
M
MidnightSun02
Guest
I am currently reading ‘The Apostolate of Holy Motherhood’. Women already have the most greatest gift…the ability to be a mother. That is, indeed, a great gift. 
There is no discrimination.
There is no discrimination.
C
CARose
Guest
Do you realize that in all humanity, the Catholic Church has elevated to the highest position of anyone other than God himself, a Woman. Not a man, a woman, Mary, Mother of God, Queen of the heavens. A mere mortal woman, the highest of all creation.
Discriminate? yes. Against? No
We can differentiate between men and women, but there is nothing wrong with that! We’re different, and we can Thank God for that!
CARose
Discriminate? yes. Against? No
We can differentiate between men and women, but there is nothing wrong with that! We’re different, and we can Thank God for that!
CARose
N
Neithan
Guest
Great posts in this thread, particularly about how discrimination is not in itself bad, and should not be equated with ‘oppression.’
The history of female oppression of course started with the Fall. Man blamed Woman for his own sin, and has put her under his thumb ever since. Jesus Christ liberated humanity, built the ladder out of the pit of sin and it is with the Church that the upward climb of womanhood finally began. That secularists are now blaming the Church for oppressing the sex that she has always championed is a delusional farce, much like all of secularism’s hollow and hypocritical denouncements. It was only a century ago that secularists were still trying to bar women from the vote.
Think about where radical feminism is now leading us, and how secular humanism sees women: physically weaker men. Is that satisfying? Women today need to continue the trend which the Church has put into place; to further their true emancipation by developing their unique femininity, and not exchange it for a cheaper version of masculinity.
Yes, Holy Orders is a sacrament for men, and there is no explicit sacrament only for women. I agree that at first sight it seems that men have some sort of special status. But what is Holy Orders? It is male because the Church herself is female. Holy Orders makes the grooms for the great Bride. There may be one sacrament which creates only fathers, but the source of all the sacraments is Holy Mother Church.
The history of female oppression of course started with the Fall. Man blamed Woman for his own sin, and has put her under his thumb ever since. Jesus Christ liberated humanity, built the ladder out of the pit of sin and it is with the Church that the upward climb of womanhood finally began. That secularists are now blaming the Church for oppressing the sex that she has always championed is a delusional farce, much like all of secularism’s hollow and hypocritical denouncements. It was only a century ago that secularists were still trying to bar women from the vote.
Think about where radical feminism is now leading us, and how secular humanism sees women: physically weaker men. Is that satisfying? Women today need to continue the trend which the Church has put into place; to further their true emancipation by developing their unique femininity, and not exchange it for a cheaper version of masculinity.
Yes, Holy Orders is a sacrament for men, and there is no explicit sacrament only for women. I agree that at first sight it seems that men have some sort of special status. But what is Holy Orders? It is male because the Church herself is female. Holy Orders makes the grooms for the great Bride. There may be one sacrament which creates only fathers, but the source of all the sacraments is Holy Mother Church.
F
FiremanFrank
Guest
“BAD” Catholics follow the dictates of their own heart.
“GOOD/FAITHFUL” Catholics try to follow God’s commands/teachings as it is taught by His Church’s Magisterium.
Therefore, it would not be possible then for a “good” Catholic to discriminate against women.
frank
“GOOD/FAITHFUL” Catholics try to follow God’s commands/teachings as it is taught by His Church’s Magisterium.
Therefore, it would not be possible then for a “good” Catholic to discriminate against women.
frank
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