Do we judge believers or not?

[mathematoons]

1 Corinthians 5:9-10 says not to avoid associating with immoral unbelievers, because there are so many; then in verses 11-13, it says not to associate with immoral believers. I can see this; we are, after all, the light of the world. But James 4:11-12 says that to judge believers is to judge the law, which is bad.

So what gives?

 

[djd83]

Hmm… Good question…

The only thing I can think of is that maybe the verses in Corinthians was directed specifically towards the Corinth church, and the James verses were for the entire Church…

But this would make more sense the other way around…

Ah, I guess I don’t really know…

 

[Jim_Dandy]

Here are the Spiritual Works of Mercy:

Instructing the Ignorant
Correcting sinners
Advising the doubtful
Showing patience to sinners and those in error
Forgiving others
Comforting the afflicted
Praying for the living and the dead

We are to judge the actions (behavior) of sinners and correct (admonish) them. But we cannot judge the state of anyone’s soul.

(See also the Corporal Works of Mercy)

 

[starsmurf]

I think since Jesus told us not to judge that that is the most important of the two.

I think St Paul is talking about those who would persude us that it is right to copy their immorality. We’re not to judge their actions but that doesn’t mean we have to copy them. If you are aware of someone acting immorally, say to yourself, “there but for the grace of God go I”, and offer up a prayer that they may repent and ask God to show them His Mercy.

 

[edithsteinrocks]

“Judge not and you will not be judged.”

 

[Tietjen]

Here are the Spiritual Works of Mercy:

Instructing the Ignorant
Correcting sinners
Advising the doubtful
Showing patience to sinners and those in error
Forgiving others
Comforting the afflicted
Praying for the living and the dead

We are to judge the actions (behavior) of sinners and correct (admonish) them. But we cannot judge the state of anyone’s soul.

(See also the Corporal Works of Mercy)

 

[donsnow]

1 Corinthians 5:9-10 says not to avoid associating with immoral unbelievers, because there are so many; then in verses 11-13, it says not to associate with immoral believers. I can see this; we are, after all, the light of the world. But James 4:11-12 says that to judge believers is to judge the law, which is bad.

So what gives?

Hi, mathematoons,

In his Sermon on the Mount, Matt 7, 1 & 2, Jesus says, “1. Judge not, that you may not be judged. 2. For with what judgement you judge, you shall be judged: and with what measure you mete, it shall be measured to you again.” (Douay-Rheims, Challoner version).

That’s plain, to me. Once we judge, we act on that judgement. I think our actions to a person subsequent to our judging that person, are the measure mentioned.

God loves you,
Don

 

[fred_conty]

1 Corinthians 5:9-10 says not to avoid associating with immoral unbelievers, because there are so many; then in verses 11-13, it says not to associate with immoral believers. I can see this; we are, after all, the light of the world. But James 4:11-12 says that to judge believers is to judge the law, which is bad.

So what gives?

Hi,
In Cor 5;9-10 Paul is talking about immoral people in the world not Christians. You can’t
withdraw from the whole world because you couldn’t live.

In Cor 5;11-13 He is talking about immoral brother Christians with whom you should not even eat a meal.
This is judgment about a chrisitan living immorally in public.

In Jam 4;11 Paul is talking about Christians slandering one another. Now slander means
hurting the name of the person be it with truth or lies. By speaking in this manner,
the christian is hurt or condemned. He says noone has the right (the law) to do this.

This judgment is about the christian person breaking the law by giving witness
with wrong intent or false witness against another christian (8th commandment).

So in Cor., immorality the christian publicly lives; in James, slander against another christian.

 

[trogiah]

I think chapter 18 of Mathew has relevance to your question.

“If your brother sins (against you), go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have won over your brother. 16 If he does not listen, take one or two others along with you, so that ‘every fact may be established on the testimony of two or three witnesses.’ 17 If he refuses to listen to them, tell the church. If he refuses to listen even to the church, then treat him as you would a Gentile or a tax collector.”

It seems as though we are instructed to “judge” at least in the sense of pointing out to a believer what we think is a fault. (experience has taught me that doing so is much better than carrying a silent grudge.)

In the discussion that may follow, perhaps the person would agree they made a mistake, in which case forgiveness is what Jesus recommends. If no agreement as to fault is reached then pursuing wise counsel is in order.

All this assumes that there is an underlying mutual agreement to seek the same higher authority. If that mutual agreement no longer functions, then chances are reconciliation will not take place because the parties involved can’t agree on who is at fault.

Peace

Jim

 

[Trishie]

You can’t help being observant, which isn’t judgement.
If I behave in a manner that is scandalously dangerous to the physical or spiritual welfare of others, your observation of the fact isn’t so much judgement but …observation…and you’d probably not do yourself a favor in allowing your children around me, or desiring my company. Intelligent observation can lead to judgement, but is in itself the impetus to move your hand away from the fire instinctively because the heat of the fire is endangering your hand.

In any case, St Paul isn’t recommending that we avoid all wordly people because much of the world are unbelievers, and we simply cannot escape all:
1 Corinthians 5:9-10 (NIV)

"I wrote to you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people— 10  not at all meaning the people of this world who are immoral, or the  greedy and swindlers, or idolaters. In that case you would have to leave  this world."

It’s not a matter of being judgemental. One observes whether people are being sexually immoral. So if I’d observed or received someone else’s observation that there is an unscrupulous predator, it and keep my children away from him, and wouldn’t be keen on my family being drawn in by the person’s predatory behavior.

If it were a woman who flirted with my husband who was known through observation to seduce married men it would be a reasonable observation, and I would certainly not encourage any occasion to have her around my husband…so that recognizing dangers isn’t necessarily judging others, but common-sense observation with a common-sense response.

I once worried to a priest about some observations about another that were really very obvious…that perhaps it was uncharitable and judgemental of me to notice it.
“You can’t help being intelligent” was his only response. And that goes for all of us.