Do you ever regret learning about the Mass?

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Simply put, they shouldn’t. It’s a sacred area, or not. At least some are vested and have the authority to be there. Hard to tell from these pics, but they look like they could do with some altar rails.

In a church known to me, the kids put on little plays there. “Holiness and majesty are in His sanctuary” … and everybody else.

Want people to respect a space (and by extension what goes on there)? Put an ‘authorised persons only’ sign on there, if only figuratively.

I saw a burn mark on the altar cloth of the side-tabernacle of a church known to me. Guessing, from previous observations, that someone put their own candle on there to get just a bit closer to God(?)

Give it another 50 years.
 
ConstantineTG said:
But music really is subjet to one’s tastes, there’s really no other way to put it.
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This is relativism. Music is easily classfied. Simple-minded, bland lyrics and a melody you can clap along to = not suitable for the Holy Sacrifice.

Here’s an idea I had: **Examine the lyrics. **

Are there few or no mentions of Jesus, Mary etc. by name?
Does it also not mention key Catholic events like the Crucifixion?
If it’s a psalm, does it quote it intact or meddle with it?
Could singing a few pious bars send a Devil fleeing clutching his ears, or not?
Could it just as easily be in praise of the Devil or Daniel Jackson? If so, try another.

All together now!

“Gloria in excelsis Deo …”
 
ProVobis said:
Don’t quite understand the point but couldn’t this diversity have been realized prior to Vatican II?
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And thats part of the East-West experience I am talking about. Realizing that the diversity has been there all along, you’d appreciate that the diversity after V2 is not something new. The Divine Liturgy for example has the DL of St. John and DL of St. Basil which are used throughout the Liturgical calendar. Its similar to what we have in the Roman Rite today that we have the OF and EF, and also expecting an increased usage of the Anglican Use in the near future. Seeing what the other Rites do helps us appreciate that its not a bad idea that there are several forms or usage within our Rite.
 
Layman said:
This is relativism. Music is easily classfied. Simple-minded, bland lyrics and a melody you can clap along to = not suitable for the Holy Sacrifice.

Here’s an idea I had: **Examine the lyrics. **

Are there few or no mentions of Jesus, Mary etc. by name?
Does it also not mention key Catholic events like the Crucifixion?
If it’s a psalm, does it quote it intact or meddle with it?
Could singing a few pious bars send a Devil fleeing clutching his ears, or not?
Could it just as easily be in praise of the Devil or Daniel Jackson? If so, try another.

All together now!

“Gloria in excelsis Deo …”
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Not that I’m denying it but musical taste is indeed relativism. Music has classifications but whether one classification is better than the other depends on the listener. Not everyone can appreciate Opera, not everyone can appreciate Rap, not everyone can appreciate Rock, etc. Who’s to say one kind of music is better than the other? Each person has their own bias to music.
 
Slow down people!!
I wanted to comment on ncstevem’s post pages and pages ago.
I finally made it, at 3:30 am. (Yes, I DO have a life.)
ncstevem said:
get yourself a good TLM missal and pray it during the Mass. It’s what I do to get through the new Mass I’m stuck going to with my wife.

I focus on the prayers in the missal and bend over in the pew so I’m not distracted by others or the nonsense that typifies many celebrations of the new Mass. I follow the postures of the old missal and I don’t participate in the ‘bidding prayers’, holding hands during the Pater Noster or the hand shaky thing.

Obviously not ideal but it helps somewhat to get through the irreverence.
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How does this work for you?
An F.F.S.P. priest suggested this to me years ago when I had to start assisting at an O.F. Mass.
I’ve yet to give it a serious try.
 
ConstantineTG said:
Not that I’m denying it but musical taste is indeed relativism. Music has classifications but whether one classification is better than the other depends on the listener. Not everyone can appreciate Opera, not everyone can appreciate Rap, not everyone can appreciate Rock, etc. Who’s to say one kind of music is better than the other? Each person has their own bias to music.
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You’re just repeating yourself and stating opinions without backing them up here. By that standard, hip-hop Masses** would be just as good as Gregorian Chant. It’s the Holy Sacrifice Of The Mass we’re talking about, not your personal mix tape.

I’m waiting for the ‘What Would Jesus Do?’, ‘They Didn’t Have Music At The Last Supper’ and ‘The Divine Liturgy Now Has Trad Jazz Settings’ arguments.

** Not wanting to give liturgical directors any ideas. Teenagers have a nose for falsity. Priests trying to ‘get down with the kids’ is like the Queen of England trying to boogie-woogie. Just don’t do it, Padre! Put down the praise and worship hymn sheet and step away from the piano. Nice and easy, now …]
 
Layman said:
You’re just repeating yourself and stating opinions without backing them up here. By that standard, hip-hop Masses** would be just as good as Gregorian Chant. It’s the Holy Sacrifice Of The Mass we’re talking about, not your personal mix tape.
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I wouldn’t go to “hip-hop” Masses nor use Christian Rock in Mass. But to lump other modern music together with those is misrepresenting the modern music we have in Church. Like I said, to dismiss them simply because they are modern is nothing but a bias. If you really believe in what you’re saying, you’d judge each song separately instead of just looking at the date of composition as your criteria.
Layman said:
I’m waiting for the ‘What Would Jesus Do?’, ‘They Didn’t Have Music At The Last Supper’ and ‘The Divine Liturgy Now Has Trad Jazz Settings’ arguments.

** Not wanting to give liturgical directors any ideas. Teenagers have a nose for falsity. Priests trying to ‘get down with the kids’ is like the Queen of England trying to boogie-woogie. Just don’t do it, Padre! Put down the praise and worship hymn sheet and step away from the piano. Nice and easy, now …]
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I don’t dismiss the music because it’s modern. I dismiss it because it’s mundane, bland, simple-minded and enervating. “We are yours so bind us together on eagle’s wings”. Cheese belongs in a fridge, not in the central rite of our religion.

Even worse, some these hymns either don’t express Catholic beliefs at all or they express Protestant ones.

What we want is a Cardinal Simon Cowell to visit choirs and say “Sorry, no, darling. I’d like you to learn these for next Sunday”.
 
Ockham said:
Good grief.

People have spent the entire day travelling in order to fulfill their Sunday obligation, some under the threat of execution if caught attending Mass. This mentality that Mass has to be easy to get to is the same as the Holy Communion line has to be like an express drive-through.

This sermon begins with the ‘need Mass to be easy to get’ complaint:

audiosancto.org/au/20070313-Mission-On-Judgement.mp3
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About 8 yrs. ago, at an alumnae association meeting, I was privileged to run into a graduate of the Sacred Heart high school that I attended.
She was able to obtain a manuscript copy of the 1952 master’s thesis of Mother Flavia Augustine, a member of the Sacred Heart order. It explored the cultural and religious aspects of the city of my birth. I borrowed it from her & read it avidly.

It told of the early days of the city & the Catholic population. These people were not privileged with a priest or a Catholic Church. A priest would try to get here once a month or so & say Mass in someone’s home. The “congregation” would ride by horse & buggy (& often horseback) for many miles, whatever the weather. They would come in the rain, in snowstorms, leaving their homes before daybreak… to attend Mass. Many times the women were pregnant or had a new child with them & the trip was hard on them & their babies. But, they came. They held their weddings & Baptisms on these rare Sundays & Mother Augustine says she never heard a complaint. It’s no doubt that we are spoiled & I just pray that I would have the character that these people showed, if I were in the same circumstances.
 
Layman said:
This is relativism. Music is easily classfied. Simple-minded, bland lyrics and a melody you can clap along to = not suitable for the Holy Sacrifice.

Here’s an idea I had: **Examine the lyrics. **

Are there few or no mentions of Jesus, Mary etc. by name?
Does it also not mention key Catholic events like the Crucifixion?
If it’s a psalm, does it quote it intact or meddle with it?
Could singing a few pious bars send a Devil fleeing clutching his ears, or not?
Could it just as easily be in praise of the Devil or Daniel Jackson? If so, try another.

All together now!

“Gloria in excelsis Deo …”
Click to expand...
O Salutaris Hostia

O saving Victim, opening wide
The gate of Heaven to us below;
Our foes press hard on every side;
Your aid supply; Your strength bestow.

To your great name be endless praise,
Immortal Godhead, One in Three.
O grant us endless length of days,
In our true native land with thee.
Amen.

Tantum Ergo

Down in adoration falling,
Lo! the sacred Host we hail,
Lo! o’er ancient forms departing
Newer rites of grace prevail;
Faith for all defects supplying,
Where the feeble senses fail.

To the everlasting Father,
And the Son Who reigns on high
With the Holy Ghost proceeding
Forth from Each eternally,
Be salvation, honor, blessing,
Might and endless majesty.
Amen.

V. Thou hast given them bread from heaven.
R. Having within it all Sweetness.

No mention of Jesus or Mary by name; no reference to the crucifixion or any key Catholic events. And when the faithful sing these hymns, it’s usually pretty awful. I think they’ll need to go!

What, again, is relativism? And who is Daniel Jackson?
 
Pregustator said:
Tantum Ergo

Down in adoration falling,
Lo! the sacred Host we hail,

. . .

No mention of Jesus or Mary by name; no reference to the crucifixion or any key Catholic events. And when the faithful sing these hymns, it’s usually pretty awful. I think they’ll need to go!

What, again, is relativism? And who is Daniel Jackson?
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Even worse, the American bishops took out “Down in adoration falling” and replaced it with veneremur cernui! :eek: Those disrespectful bishops can’t stand the notion of Catholic faithful kneeling in adoration, they only want to see people “venerating” while “bowing”. So much for keeping to traditional Catholic practices. :mad:
 
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