Do you hate Mass?

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What is wrong with a short, but interesting homily? I would think that would have more impact, than some drawn-out boring drone. How would long, drawn-out homilies foster vocations?

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I take your point Guy, but judging from the opinions of many family and acquaintences, they shop for the Masses said by the priest with the shortest sermon and the quickest Mass.
 
This is definitely encouraging but probably not enough to turn the tide that will witness the demise of the Novus Ordo in the next 30 years since it does not appear to be translating into vocations to the degree necessary to sustain the diocesan structure.

In our archdiocese (one of the largest on the East Coast of the US), there was one ordination in the last two years. Contrast that to most Traditional (both regularized and SSPX) seminaries (those that exclusively use the EF), most of which are bursting at the seams with seminarians. My son is in a seminary where there are 3 seminarians to each room and they can’t expand quickly enough.

Anecdotally, and in line with the topic of the thread, my wife and I ran into a family from my wife’s parish (my wife is the guitar Mass leader in a Novus Ordo church) while we were out to dinner. The wife, speaking of her pre-teen and teenage children, said to my wife “my kids are totally bored with the 9am (non-musical) Mass but they love the 5PM Guitar Mass.” My wife slightly cringed at the comment that anyone would be bored with Christ’s sacrifice. But there you have it … the “community” needs to be entertained by music that is fun to sing, they need to interact with one another during the Mass, the sermons need to be short and interesting, and Masses can’t be too long. This is not the breeding ground of vocations.

So, if you hate the Mass, just wait a bit and you may not have anything to hate sooner than you think.
I respectfully suggest that you are confusing “entertainment” with “communication.”

When someone cannot understand what is said and done, they will be bored. It has nothing to do with entertainment. I have attended concerts, lectures, and other events that were highly entertaining to those who understood what was going on, but utterly boring to me because I had no clue what was happening and I didn’t understand the presentation.

For example, some of the microbiology conferences that I have attended have been so far above my head that I literally didn’t understand anything other than a few words here and there, and I was bored. Meanwhile all the other doctors and scientists are chuckling and nodding and vigourously writing down notes and asking questions. I’m just watching the clock and thinking about lunch!

But a translation or a different method of presenting the event will dissipate boredom.

I’ve attended other microbiology lectures where I understood everything that was said and wrote notes as fast as I could write. I wasn’t bored at all, but very caught up in the lecture and soaking in the information. Sometimes the lecturer presents little “cartoons” instead of just doing biochemical formulae–this helps me to understand. It has nothing to do with entertainment. What has happened is that the presentation is made in a “language” and “style” that makes sense to me.

I suppose you could say that I should try harder to be as smart as the doctors and scientists. OK. I’ll try. But for various reasons, “Trying” might not work and somehow, the information still needs to be communicated to me.

Perhaps a teenager doesn’t understand" “Adoro te devote, latens Deitas, Quae sub his figuris, vere latitas”

You can label the teenager as a product of dumbed-down culture if you wish. Include me in that category, as I don’t understand Latin at all, even after taking a year of it in high school (many many moons ago!).

And then you add a pipe organ and a rather lugubrious chanting melody with no time signature–and the teenager (and me! has no clue what is going on.

But take that same theme–God with Hidden Majesty–and re-phrase it this way: “Our God is an awesome God, He reigns from heaven above with wisdom, power and love, Our God is an awesome God,” and add a rock score and a fairly simple, rhythmic melody line–and all of sudden that teenager is going to sit up and say, “I understand this. I get it now!”

**It’s not entertainment at all! It’s speaking in a vernacular that can be understood. **

Now some teens DO understand Latin and some teens DO “get” chant. Wonderful! Kudos to them, their parents, and their teachers.

But it is not right to judge all teenager by these exceptional teenagers. That’s like expecting all non-Americans to understand English just because some non-Americans do understand English. And yelling the English LOUDER doesn’t help! If someone doesn’t understand, they don’t understand.

And if no one helps them to understand, they will eventually stop listening and turn away in frustration and even anger.

Again, it has nothing to do with “entertainment.” It’s all about “speaking” clearly.
 
Perhaps a teenager doesn’t understand" “Adoro te devote, latens Deitas, Quae sub his figuris, vere latitas”

You can label the teenager as a product of dumbed-down culture if you wish. Include me in that category, as I don’t understand Latin at all, even after taking a year of it in high school (many many moons ago!).

And then you add a pipe organ and a rather lugubrious chanting melody with no time signature–and the teenager (and me! has no clue what is going on.

But take that same theme–God with Hidden Majesty–and re-phrase it this way: “Our God is an awesome God, He reigns from heaven above with wisdom, power and love, Our God is an awesome God,” and add a rock score and a fairly simple, rhythmic melody line–and all of sudden that teenager is going to sit up and say, “I understand this. I get it now!”

**It’s not entertainment at all! It’s speaking in a vernacular that can be understood. **
You missed, or ignored, the main point of the post that you were responding.

This:

When He rolls up His sleeves
He ain’t just puttin’ on the ritz
(our God is an awesome God)
There is thunder in His footsteps
And lightning in His fist
(our God is an awesome God)
Well, the Lord wasn’t joking
When He kicked 'em out of Eden
It wasn’t for no reason that He shed his blood
His return is very close and so you better be believing
that our God is an awesome God

Does not produce vocations for the Catholic Church. It is a fact that heterodox dioceses are experiencing vocations crises, while orthodox dioceses and the traditional orders are experiencing huge gains in vocations. The way of “Our God Is An Awesome God” is not the future of the Church.
 
And if no one helps them to understand, they will eventually stop listening and turn away in frustration and even anger.

Again, it has nothing to do with “entertainment.” It’s all about “speaking” clearly.
Cat,

I think it is all about entertainment. What is there that is hard to understand about the Novus Ordo Mass - that makes the Mass more understandable because at one Mass you sing “If I had a hammer” during the Offertory instead of singing nothing at the Offertory?

I do agree that the problem begins with the parents but the Church has certainly fostered the condition by introducing (or allowing the introduction of) multiple novelties that appeal to our human emotions - guitar music, interpretive liturgical dancing, polkas, turn to your neighbors for the hug of peace, etc

All of this distracts from the Sacrifice and neither the kids (nor parents) understand the Mass as a Sacrifice anymore. It is a social event with a Consecration embedded in the middle.

There is no communication required here except between the faithful and Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ in the form of our worship and adoration. But the faith has certainly not been communicated and this appears to be more the rule than the exception these days.
 
I take your point Guy, but judging from the opinions of many family and acquaintences, they shop for the Masses said by the priest with the shortest sermon and the quickest Mass.
Yes, and there are people who shop for physicans who give antibiotics whether they are indicated or not. That doesn’t make indiscrimate use of antibiotics the standard of care.
What is wrong with a short, but interesting homily? I would think that would have more impact, than some drawn-out boring drone. How would long, drawn-out homilies foster vocations?

🤷
Fostering vocations requires fostering an attention span that extends beyond five minutes, too.
I think that has to start at home and at school, though, not at Mass. If Mass is the only place that kids are expected to have any kind of self-discipline or sustained attention, then Mass is going to be primarily about discipline, rather than about worship. That won’t work. (Fostering vocations also requires a home spiritual life that involves more than just Mass on Sunday, too, but that is a topic for another thread, perhaps.)

Just the practice of having read the readings prior to arriving for Mass makes a huge difference in what one is going to get out of a homily.

Having said that, the art of delivering a meaningful exposition of the Scriptures in a relatively short amount of time is not an easy one, but well worth fostering. Priests and deacons can’t control how well-prepared people are when they come to Mass. They can only control how they deal with the hand that they are dealt. It would seem that a wide diversity in attention span and needs is part of that package.
 
I think this is my first post as I can’t find my other one!!??:rolleyes:
I love Mass too. I don’t go because it’s an obligation. I go because I enjoy being there and receiving the Eucharist!
👍
 
If you disagree with this member of the magisterium who is in union with the Pope, that is your choice; but I agree with him completely.
I will agree with the many instead of the one, who like LeFebvre does not singularly comprise the magisterium.
Prayers & blessings
Deacon Ed B
 
This is definitely encouraging but probably not enough to turn the tide that will witness the demise of the Novus Ordo in the next 30 years since it does not appear to be translating into vocations to the degree necessary to sustain the diocesan structure.
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I have said all along, that if Rome does away with the Novus Ordo, I will follow whatever form of mass it promulgates. That is called obedience to the Magisterium. A virtue which so many do not seem to have.
Prayers & blessings
Deacon Ed B
 
There is no communication required here except between the faithful and Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ in the form of our worship and adoration. But the faith has certainly not been communicated and this appears to be more the rule than the exception these days.
This is not true. There is communication required in the proclamation of the Scriptures and their exposition by the homilist. The Liturgy of the Word is one part of the one act of worship that is the Mass, and that part is all about communication. Holy Communion is not just between Our Lord and each of us individually, either. It is also about our continually being bound together into one Body, the Body of Christ.

To emphasize the unifying aspect of the Mass over the sacrificial aspect is a huge mistake, but the reverse is also a serious mistake. The Mass accomplishes both, and to do one fully requires that both be done fully. At Mass, our lives are bound together into the One and Only Acceptable Sacrifice. Christ prayed at the Last Supper that we become one even as He is one with the Father. This cannot be accomplished outside the context of our being buried in His death and Resurrection. Both aspects are absolutely essential.
 
I think this is my first post as I can’t find my other one!!??:rolleyes:
I love Mass too. I don’t go because it’s an obligation. I go because I enjoy being there and receiving the Eucharist!
👍
Do not ever apologize for this. You just gave a most simple, yet profound explanation to all of the posts which preceded you.
Prayers & blessings
Deacon Ed B
👍
 
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