Do you think God is upset with the Catholic Church?

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carol marie:
iwonder,
I think your opinion is interesting but how do you reconcile your view with the fact that Jesus got upset on many occasions? He turned the tables over & threw the money changers out of the temple. He called the religious leaders offspring of vipers. Yikes… sounds pretty ticked to me.

:hmmm: CM
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Jesus is the Second Perosn of the Trinity. I am addressing the First.
 
carol marie:
… Jesus got upset on many occasions…
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Right. Also, there are passages in the Bible, which mention the “wrath of God”. For example:
see Numbers 17, 11:…for wrath has come forth from the Lord…

Also, see the New Testament: Romans 1, 18:

18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and injustice of those men that detain the truth of God in injustice:

I would guess that God might be angry if a good priest has to sue the Catholic Church or the Archdiocese of Miami because of problems with the homosexual clergy. See:

rcf.org/docs/Dowgiert.htm
 
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iwonder:
Jesus is the Second Perosn of the Trinity. I am addressing the First.
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Now I’m confused. Wasn’t Jesus fully God? He wouldn’t have some qualities that God doesn’t have, would He? That would make Him different from His Father and even He said, “The Father and I are One.” I thought I learned in RCIA that you can’t seperate Jesus from the Father, or the Holy Spirit - it’s not 3 different Gods - but all just God.
 
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Hildebrand:
No, not with the Church as a whole. But rather with the individual Christians themselves who sow the seeds of disunity, schism, and heresy.
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I agree…the Church is still the one Holy Apostolic Church it has always been. It is the individual that has split from Gods Church and the unity of the Body of Christ.
 
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Edwin1961:
Well if you look at it this way,
John 17 is like a prophecy that the times we are living in are happening.
Christ, as God and knowing ALL things, would have wanted His words on this matter placed in Scripture.
I wonder what the Protestants of 300-500 years ago thought about John 17? And for that matter the early Church, since there were attempts of dissention and schism back them.
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Well thats when they invented the invisible church idea…
 
carol marie:
Now I’m confused. Wasn’t Jesus fully God? He wouldn’t have some qualities that God doesn’t have, would He? That would make Him different from His Father and even He said, “The Father and I are One.” I thought I learned in RCIA that you can’t seperate Jesus from the Father, or the Holy Spirit - it’s not 3 different Gods - but all just God.
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Okay, skip the first and move to the Second Person of the Trinity.
We state (in RCIA) that God is perfect. We also state that God is perfect charity. This means then, according to St. John, that God is love. Love is not angry, love is not harsh, love is not impatient, love is not insulting, LOVE IS NOT UPSET. Because God is perfect. In the First Person or the Second or the Third. Which part of perfect is not understandable? Do you not see that in Him there is no evil? He does not recognize evil, only good. So how in the world could He be upset? Does anyone seeing only good ever get upset?
 
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Mickey:
God cannot “be” or “do” evil. But are you sure that He does not recognize it?
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How in the world can God recognise something that is not His?
 
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iwonder:
How in the world can God recognise something that is not His?
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Because He is omniscient. :yup:
Jesus recognized satan when He was being tempted in the desert.
 
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Mickey:
Because He is omniscient. :yup:
Jesus recognized satan when He was being tempted in the desert.
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Granted I stand corrected. Recognize was a poor choice of words.
On the other hand, does He not consistently reject Satan, as satan has nothing to do with Him? He does not retain him, nor does He entertain him, nor does He follow him. If He feels upset coming, He does not retain it, entertain it, or follow it. Because He is perfect. Moreover, at no time did Christ condemn those or become upset with those whose demons He had to expell. He simply expelled the demons.
 
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iwonder:
Granted I stand corrected. Recognize was a poor choice of words.
On the other hand, does He not consistently reject Satan, as satan has nothing to do with Him? He does not retain him, nor does He entertain him, nor does He follow him. If He feels upset coming, He does not retain it, entertain it, or follow it. Because He is perfect. Moreover, at no time did Christ condemn those or become upset with those whose demons He had to expell. He simply expelled the demons.
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God has complete dominion over satan and his demons. When you or I are tempted or fall into sin, it is because God has allowed it to happen. He has His reasons. :o
 
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Mickey:
God has complete dominion over satan and his demons. When you or I are tempted or fall into sin, it is because God has allowed it to happen. He has His reasons. :o
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Sorry- that is not the title of this thread. God’s dominion. The title is “Is God upset with the Catholic Church”. My answer is no because God is perfect.
 
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iwonder:
Sorry- that is not the title of this thread. God’s dominion. The title is “Is God upset with the Catholic Church”. My answer is no because God is perfect.
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Sorry. I thought you brought it up in post #29, but I will go back on topic. Do I think God is upset with the Catholic Church?
No way!
 
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iwonder:
Okay, skip the first and move to the Second Person of the Trinity.
We state (in RCIA) that God is perfect. We also state that God is perfect charity. This means then, according to St. John, that God is love. Love is not angry, love is not harsh, love is not impatient, love is not insulting, LOVE IS NOT UPSET. Because God is perfect. In the First Person or the Second or the Third. Which part of perfect is not understandable? Do you not see that in Him there is no evil? He does not recognize evil, only good. So how in the world could He be upset? Does anyone seeing only good ever get upset?
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Your opinion that God cannot get upset is not consistant with Scripture.

Ephesians 4:30 “And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, with whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.”

I looked up “grieve” and it said, “to cause distress, to feel grief, sorrow.”

I believe we can cause God a great deal of grief. Is he upset with the Catholic Church specifically? Who am I to answer for Him?
 
carol marie:
Your opinion that God cannot get upset is not consistant with Scripture.

Ephesians 4:30 “And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, with whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.”

I looked up “grieve” and it said, “to cause distress, to feel grief, sorrow.”

I believe we can cause God a great deal of grief. Is he upset with the Catholic Church specifically? Who am I to answer for Him?
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Well, if you read any Aquinas or other doctors of the Church, it is a pretty solid consensus that God cannot get upset. In order to get upset or show emotions one would need to experience some kind of change (to go from happy to upset). To change, one would need to go from one state to another. Both of these states cannot be perfect, because only one state can be the perfect state. Since God is perfect, he cannot experience these different states of emotion. I’m not sure if thats exactly right, but I think its the jist of it. The way the emotions in the Bible were explained to me are as follows–In the old testament it is simply the way God manifested himself to his people, God may not have emotions but people do, so they naturally think of God in this way. In the New Testament of course we cannot forget that Jesus had a human nature in addition to a divine nature. If anyone else has a better understanding of this concept please elaborate. God Bless!
 
I think just the opposite might true. It isn’t we who are responsible for sustaining the unity of the Church which He estabished. It is God’s responsibility to to sustain the unity of the Church.

And has God sustained that unity? I would say, “yes”. This is because He said that those who seek shall find, those who knock shall have the door opened to them.

There are thousands of Christian denominations and many parishes that call themselves “Catholic” and are not Catholic. These are there to suit every whim and fancy.

But he who seeks God and the Catholic Church, rather than himself, will find God and the Catholic Church.

The Catholic Church is incapable of error in matters of faith and morals. He who seeks the truth and God, will find it in the Catholic Church, which God gives His special protection.
 
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Roche42:
Well, if you read any Aquinas or other doctors of the Church, it is a pretty solid consensus that God cannot get upset. In order to get upset or show emotions one would need to experience some kind of change (to go from happy to upset). To change, one would need to go from one state to another. Both of these states cannot be perfect, because only one state can be the perfect state. Since God is perfect, he cannot experience these different states of emotion. I’m not sure if thats exactly right, but I think its the jist of it. The way the emotions in the Bible were explained to me are as follows–In the old testament it is simply the way God manifested himself to his people, God may not have emotions but people do, so they naturally think of God in this way. In the New Testament of course we cannot forget that Jesus had a human nature in addition to a divine nature. If anyone else has a better understanding of this concept please elaborate. God Bless!
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Yes, God never changes.
 
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Roche42:
Well, if you read any Aquinas or other doctors of the Church, it is a pretty solid consensus that God cannot get upset.
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Maybe Aquinas does not think so, but according to
the Holy Bible, Genesis 6:

6 He regretted that He had made man on the earth. And being touched inwardly with sorrow of heart, 7 He said: I will destroy man, whom I have created, from the face of the earth, from man even to beasts, from the creeping thing even to the fowls of the air, for I am sorry that I have made them.

I would ask that if the Holy Bible describes God in this fashion, then why would there be anything wrong with someone saying that God might be angry with the scandals in the Catholic Church today?
 
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stanley123:
I would ask that if the Holy Bible describes God in this fashion, then why would there be anything wrong with someone saying that God might be angry with the scandals in the Catholic Church today?
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Maybe, 'cause then they might wonder if their own lukewarmness and mere religiousity might cause them to be spit out of His mouth,( Revelation chapters 2,3 Laodecia) Pehaps they hope their own ignoring of Jesus call for true [humble, committed] discipleship didn’t cause many to turn away from Christ’s Church.
 
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stanley123:
Maybe Aquinas does not think so, but according to
the Holy Bible, Genesis 6:

6 He regretted that He had made man on the earth. And being touched inwardly with sorrow of heart, 7 He said: I will destroy man, whom I have created, from the face of the earth, from man even to beasts, from the creeping thing even to the fowls of the air, for I am sorry that I have made them.

I would ask that if the Holy Bible describes God in this fashion, then why would there be anything wrong with someone saying that God might be angry with the scandals in the Catholic Church today?
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Because Christ came not to abolish the law, that which you just read, but to fullfill it. That is why. Anyone stating God is upset with anyone, including the Church, does not understand Christ’s role in fulfillment of the Law. It is not abolished-it is fulfilled.
 
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