Does a sacrament have to be valid in the eyes of the Church to give grace?

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ajpirc

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When Protestant denomination have what they call “sacraments”, do they give grace? For example, most Protestant denominations don’t believe (and neither do we) that their Eucharist is the Body and Blood of Christ, therefore, it is an invalid sacrament. Because this “sacrament” isn’t valid, does it give grace? Can it even be called a sacrament?

Another example: Jehovah’s Witnesses and Mormons don’t baptize using the Trinitarian Formula, therefore, it is an invalid “sacrament”. Because this “sacrament” isn’t valid, does it give grace or even free the person of their Original Sin?

What about an invalid Catholic sacrament, would it give grace?
 
Sacraments give sanctifying grace. Rituals that are not sacraments do not. Non-trinitarian baptism is not a valid baptism and does not remit original sin.
 
No, such ‘sacraments’ are not efficacious in themselves to give grace to those who receive them. Rather like a ritual of human origin.
 
ajpirc said:
When Protestant denomination have what they call “sacraments”, do they give grace? For example, most Protestant denominations don’t believe (and neither do we) that their Eucharist is the Body and Blood of Christ, therefore, it is an invalid sacrament. Because this “sacrament” isn’t valid, does it give grace? Can it even be called a sacrament?

Another example: Jehovah’s Witnesses and Mormons don’t baptize using the Trinitarian Formula, therefore, it is an invalid “sacrament”. Because this “sacrament” isn’t valid, does it give grace or even free the person of their Original Sin?

What about an invalid Catholic sacrament, would it give grace?
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I would think that an invalid Sacrament done in good faith (no intention to make it invalid, people honestly thought they did it right) confers some grace, but never equal to that of a valid Sacrament. God is just, if we seek his graces in all honesty, why would He deny it to us?
 
ajpirc said:
When Protestant denomination have what they call “sacraments”, do they give grace? For example, most Protestant denominations don’t believe (and neither do we) that their Eucharist is the Body and Blood of Christ, therefore, it is an invalid sacrament. Because this “sacrament” isn’t valid, does it give grace? Can it even be called a sacrament?

Another example: Jehovah’s Witnesses and Mormons don’t baptize using the Trinitarian Formula, therefore, it is an invalid “sacrament”. Because this “sacrament” isn’t valid, does it give grace or even free the person of their Original Sin?

What about an invalid Catholic sacrament, would it give grace?
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Not according to the Ignatius Press lesson I just taught on the Sacrament of Matrimony. The effects of the sacrament is grace. There is no effect of a non-sacramental marriage.

I left the Church for 20 yrs. I was baptized in water when I was 21. There were no effects to that “Sacrament.” It was invalid, we believe in ONE BAPTISM for the forgiveness of sins.
A protestant trinitarian baptism saves your soul. Therefore their valid baptism I would think, effects grace.
 
ConstantineTG said:
I would think that an invalid Sacrament done in good faith (no intention to make it invalid, people honestly thought they did it right) confers some grace, but never equal to that of a valid Sacrament. God is just, if we seek his graces in all honesty, why would He deny it to us?
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I heard someone saying that it would be very unlikely for a Protestant to attain salvation without the grace given by the sacraments in the Catholic Church. If someone were seeking God’s graces, then wouldn’t he lead them to the Catholic Church and not let them stay in their ecclessial communities to attain grace? What would be the point of the Catholic Church if you could receive grace in Billy Bob’s Baptist church? What would be the point of excommunication from the sacraments if you could go get some grace from Billy’s?
 
ajpirc said:
I heard someone saying that it would be very unlikely for a Protestant to attain salvation without the grace given by the sacraments in the Catholic Church. If someone were seeking God’s graces, then wouldn’t he lead them to the Catholic Church and not let them stay in their ecclessial communities to attain grace? What would be the point of the Catholic Church if you could receive grace in Billy Bob’s Baptist church? What would be the point of excommunication from the sacraments if you could go get some grace from Billy’s?
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Ajpirc,Baptism in a Protestant Church given with the Trinitarian formula is valid.However without the benefit of the seven sacraments of the Apostolic Church it seems to me sanctifying grace working in such a soul would have a much slower time of it. Purification not being completed until well after the final state for purification, now of course that is only my opinion .🤷 God is the one who makes that call.:)Peace, Carlan
 
ajpirc said:
When Protestant denomination have what they call “sacraments”, do they give grace? For example, most Protestant denominations don’t believe (and neither do we) that their Eucharist is the Body and Blood of Christ, therefore, it is an invalid sacrament. Because this “sacrament” isn’t valid, does it give grace? Can it even be called a sacrament?

Another example: Jehovah’s Witnesses and Mormons don’t baptize using the Trinitarian Formula, therefore, it is an invalid “sacrament”. Because this “sacrament” isn’t valid, does it give grace or even free the person of their Original Sin?

What about an invalid Catholic sacrament, would it give grace?
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Jehovah’s Witnesses and Mormons are not Christians. They have no sacraments.
 
ajpirc said:
Because this “sacrament” isn’t valid, does it give grace? Can it even be called a sacrament?

Another example: Jehovah’s Witnesses and Mormons don’t baptize using the Trinitarian Formula, therefore, it is an invalid “sacrament”. Because this “sacrament” isn’t valid, does it give grace or even free the person of their Original Sin?

What about an invalid Catholic sacrament, would it give grace?
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No, on all counts.
 
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stuart12:
It would be of divine origin. Grace is assured because Christ instituted it.
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I think stuart12 gave the best answer so far. God’s grace does not flow solely through sacraments; he is not limited in that way. It may well be that you will receive some grace from a non-Catholic ceremony, or for that matter by scratching your dog behind the ears. Who knows. What we do know is that we assuredly can receive grace through the sacraments.
 
ajpirc said:
I heard someone saying that it would be very unlikely for a Protestant to attain salvation without the grace given by the sacraments in the Catholic Church. If someone were seeking God’s graces, then wouldn’t he lead them to the Catholic Church and not let them stay in their ecclessial communities to attain grace? What would be the point of the Catholic Church if you could receive grace in Billy Bob’s Baptist church? What would be the point of excommunication from the sacraments if you could go get some grace from Billy’s?
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How can one find the truth without grace? Like I said, people will likely attain graces although its not equal to the graces of the Sacraments.
 
Sacraments give grace by their very nature. Ex opere operato is the Latin phrase.

Sacraments give two kinds of grace: sacramental graces (actual grace which helps us to live in accordance with the sacrament), and sanctifying grace (the divine life abiding within us.)

An invalid sacrament is no sacrament at all. It doesn’t work ex opere operato. There is nothing in its essence which is inherently grace giving.

God, of course, can confer grace as He wills. He is not limited to the sacraments. Any grace he gives in connection with a non-valid ‘sacrament’ is the result, not of the ritual, but of the good intention of the participant.
 
JimG said:
Sacraments give grace by their very nature. Ex opere operato is the Latin phrase.

Sacraments give two kinds of grace: sacramental graces (actual grace which helps us to live in accordance with the sacrament), and sanctifying grace (the divine life abiding within us.)

An invalid sacrament is no sacrament at all. It doesn’t work ex opere operato. There is nothing in its essence which is inherently grace giving.

God, of course, can confer grace as He wills. He is not limited to the sacraments. Any grace he gives in connection with a non-valid ‘sacrament’ is the result, not of the ritual, but of the good intention of the participant.
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I am so confused about this. 🤷

I thought the whole reason for Christ establishing the Catholic Church was to give us grace through the sacraments. If you don’t have to receive the Church’s sacraments to receive sanctifying grace, then why even be a Catholic?
 
ajpirc said:
I am so confused about this. 🤷

I thought the whole reason for Christ establishing the Catholic Church was to give us grace through the sacraments. If you don’t have to receive the Church’s sacraments to receive sanctifying grace, then why even be a Catholic?
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The sacraments are definitive channels of grace, guaranteed means of grace, instituted by Christ for our benefit.

But think of the myriad ordinary ways which God can and does use as means of grace.

He can use you and me and other persons as means of grace for others, if we are acting according to his will. He can use art or novels or music or books as means of grace. He can use these Forums as a means of grace. All those things are ordinary means. The Sacraments are extraordinary means, instituted by Christ.

If God were to limit his grace giving only to the sacraments, how could anyone receive the initial grace of conversion. Evangelization would be useless, because evangelization is not a sacrament and could never effect the grace of conversion.

The Sacraments are powerful and necessary. God uses them. He is not limited to them

(Note that I use the term ‘grace’ above mainly to mean actual grace (divine help), not sanctifying grace (divine life), although God can give sanctifying grace outside the sacraments.)
 
JimG said:
(Note that I use the term ‘grace’ above mainly to mean actual grace (divine help), not sanctifying grace (divine life), although God can give sanctifying grace outside the sacraments.)
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Thanks. This probably helped the most. I was thinking that ALL grace was sanctifying grace.
 
ConstantineTG said:
I would think that an invalid Sacrament done in good faith (no intention to make it invalid, people honestly thought they did it right) confers some grace, but never equal to that of a valid Sacrament. God is just, if we seek his graces in all honesty, why would He deny it to us?
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Bingo.

There was another thread on Lutheran “Lord’s Supper” and a discussion as to whether Lutherans receive some measure of grace through this sacrament (that it, considered to be a sacrament in the Lutheran church(es) ).
 
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