Does anyone ever knowingly and willingly reject God?

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Pope Benedict said:

Yet God’s measure of justice is different from ours and if he sees good faith or blameless ignorance he saves even those who had been anxious to fight him in their lives. We believers should prepare ourselves for surprises in this regard.

vatican.va/liturgical_year/holy-week/2009/documents/holy-week_homily-fr-cantalamessa_20090410_en.html

However, has any person been “anxious to fight him” knowingly and willingly? I am looking for an example of this. Ignorance is a huge, if not essential, part of human sin. Can such ignorance be understood and forgiven, or are there instances where a person can indeed be condemned?

Note: I am using “knowingly and willingly” in the broadest sense, i.e. those who crucified Jesus did not do so knowingly and willingly. They “willed” it in terms of choice, but their choice was in ignorance (and in this case, the ignorance was held blameless).

Feel free to make an assertion in your answer, but please provide an example.

Thanks!🙂
 
Obviously I cannot answer for anyone else, except myself. I do not “reject” God, I simply do not believe that he exists. What I DO reject is the argument(s) for God’s existence, and all the different things that believers say ABOUT God. I don’t know if that helps you with your question, but hopefully it does.
 
OneSheep said:
Pope Benedict said:

Yet God’s measure of justice is different from ours and if he sees good faith or blameless ignorance he saves even those who had been anxious to fight him in their lives. We believers should prepare ourselves for surprises in this regard.

vatican.va/liturgical_year/holy-week/2009/documents/holy-week_homily-fr-cantalamessa_20090410_en.html

However, has any person been “anxious to fight him” knowingly and willingly? I am looking for an example of this. Ignorance is a huge, if not essential, part of human sin. Can such ignorance be understood and forgiven, or are there instances where a person can indeed be condemned?

Note: I am using “knowingly and willingly” in the broadest sense, i.e. those who crucified Jesus did not do so knowingly and willingly. They “willed” it in terms of choice, but their choice was in ignorance (and in this case, the ignorance was held blameless).

Feel free to make an assertion in your answer, but please provide an example.

Thanks!🙂
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How many abortionist are ignorant of the commandment not to murder?
How many are forced, against their will, to kill the innocent during an abortion?

How is disobeying God not a rejection of God?

So, to your question: “Does anyone ever knowingly and willingly reject God?”
Every time anyone commits a sin, God is rejected knowingly and willingly.

CCC said:
II. THE DEFINITION OF SIN

1849 Sin is an offense against reason, truth, and right conscience; it is failure in genuine love for God and neighbor caused by a perverse attachment to certain goods. It wounds the nature of man and injures human solidarity. It has been defined as "an utterance, a deed, or a desire contrary to the eternal law."121
1850 Sin is an offense against God: "Against you, you alone, have I sinned, and done that which is evil in your sight."122 Sin sets itself against God’s love for us and turns our hearts away from it. Like the first sin, it is disobedience, a revolt against God through the will to become "like gods,"123 knowing and determining good and evil. Sin is thus "love of oneself even to contempt of God."124 In this proud self- exaltation, sin is diametrically opposed to the obedience of Jesus, which achieves our salvation.125
1851 It is precisely in the Passion, when the mercy of Christ is about to vanquish it, that sin most clearly manifests its violence and its many forms: unbelief, murderous hatred, shunning and mockery by the leaders and the people, Pilate’s cowardice and the cruelty of the soldiers, Judas’ betrayal - so bitter to Jesus, Peter’s denial and the disciples’ flight. However, at the very hour of darkness, the hour of the prince of this world,126 the sacrifice of Christ secretly becomes the source from which the forgiveness of our sins will pour forth inexhaustibly.
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I have seen at least one celebrity publicly deny God but only God knows if he had a change of heart right before he died.

Ed
 
I wonder if it is truly possible for a women to fully consent to the sin of the abortion of her fetus
 
OneSheep said:
Pope Benedict said:

Yet God’s measure of justice is different from ours and if he sees good faith or blameless ignorance he saves even those who had been anxious to fight him in their lives. We believers should prepare ourselves for surprises in this regard.
Click to expand...
He is definitely wrong. God should be able to convince us about our errors hence God’s measure of justice cannot be different from us when it comes to judging individuals separately.
OneSheep said:
However, has any person been “anxious to fight him” knowingly and willingly? I am looking for an example of this. Ignorance is a huge, if not essential, part of human sin. Can such ignorance be understood and forgiven, or are there instances where a person can indeed be condemned?
Click to expand...
In fact, the claim that God is absolute supreme could be wrong. So anyone can doubt it. This is a personal belief hence anyone could doubt it and try to fight God to become supreme. How God could possibly himself be sure that he is absolute supreme unless the opposite is not shown? Consider the case of Satan.
OneSheep said:
Note: I am using “knowingly and willingly” in the broadest sense, i.e. those who crucified Jesus did not do so knowingly and willingly. They “willed” it in terms of choice, but their choice was in ignorance (and in this case, the ignorance was held blameless).
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You could not judge about the state of their minds. They could simply believe that Jesus is not God! Consider the case of Judea.
 
Satan is one example of a person that knowingly and willingly rejected God.
 
OneSheep said:
Pope Benedict said:

Yet God’s measure of justice is different from ours and if he sees good faith or blameless ignorance he saves even those who had been anxious to fight him in their lives. We believers should prepare ourselves for surprises in this regard.

vatican.va/liturgical_year/holy-week/2009/documents/holy-week_homily-fr-cantalamessa_20090410_en.html
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Thank you for this important link.

So far, I have only skimmed it rather quickly. I did find the quote in blue. It is a valuable quote which can be said by anyone, including yourself.

May I respectfully point out that Pope Benedict is not the person in the provided link.

The link is the Homily of Father Raniero Cantalamessa, O.F.M., Cap. This homily, by Father Cantalamessa, apparently was given in St. Peter’s Basilica, Good Friday, 10 April 2009.
 
grannymh said:
Thank you for this important link.

So far, I have only skimmed it rather quickly. I did find the quote in blue. It is a valuable quote which can be said by anyone, including yourself.

May I respectfully point out that Pope Benedict is not the person in the provided link.

The link is the Homily of Father Raniero Cantalamessa, O.F.M., Cap. This homily, by Father Cantalamessa, apparently was given in St. Peter’s Basilica, Good Friday, 10 April 2009.
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The link and quote were passed on from someone else, and I must have misunderstood the source, and amazingly never looked at the author.

Oops

I am going to contact the moderators and see if I can get the thread deleted.

Thanks!
 
OneSheep said:
Feel free to make an assertion in your answer, but please provide an example.

Thanks!🙂
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Yes.

Example: Me.

Every day, I knowingly and willingly do not do God’s will. I get caught in the things of this world and I am not the christian I have the potential to be.
 
Sorry, folks, I have requested that this thread be deleted because of the misquote. I will post a new thread without the misquote, so please respond to that one. Again, sorry for the inconvenience for those who already posted.

If the moderator allows me to edit the post, I will. Pope Benedict was not the origin of the quote.
 
OneSheep said:
Pope Benedict said:

Yet God’s measure of justice is different from ours and if he sees good faith or blameless ignorance he saves even those who had been anxious to fight him in their lives. We believers should prepare ourselves for surprises in this regard.

vatican.va/liturgical_year/holy-week/2009/documents/holy-week_homily-fr-cantalamessa_20090410_en.html

However, has any person been “anxious to fight him” knowingly and willingly? I am looking for an example of this. Ignorance is a huge, if not essential, part of human sin. Can such ignorance be understood and forgiven, or are there instances where a person can indeed be condemned?

Note: I am using “knowingly and willingly” in the broadest sense, i.e. those who crucified Jesus did not do so knowingly and willingly. They “willed” it in terms of choice, but their choice was in ignorance (and in this case, the ignorance was held blameless).

Feel free to make an assertion in your answer, but please provide an example.

Thanks!🙂
Click to expand...
I do not pretend to know the hearts and minds of other people, but I can answer “yes” to your question. First of all, humans have the capability of knowingly and willingly rejecting God, or else freewill is a myth. Secondly, Sacred Scripture states that there are, indeed, people who will end up in hell (which is the ultimate consequence of rejecting God). For example, Matthew 25:45-46 & Rev 19:20.

As a side note, an atheist once told me, “I don’t believe that God exists, but if I die and find out he does, I will gladly go to hell as a final act of defiance against a bloodthirsty tyrant.” Once again, I do not pretend to know the hearts and minds of other people, including this person, but I’ll let the strength of his statement stand on its own as a possible example of a rejection of God with knowledge and consent. Naturally, I offer prayers on his behalf that his attitude concerning God will change for the better.
 
I hope you will continue discussion of the blue quote in post 1.

Yet God’s measure of justice is different from ours and if he sees good faith or blameless ignorance he saves even those who had been anxious to fight him in their lives. We believers should prepare ourselves for surprises in this regard.
 
grannymh said:
I hope you will continue discussion of the blue quote in post 1.

Yet God’s measure of justice is different from ours and if he sees good faith or blameless ignorance he saves even those who had been anxious to fight him in their lives. We believers should prepare ourselves for surprises in this regard.
Click to expand...
Hi Granny,

Thanks again for the heads-up about the misquote. I have posted a new thread:

“Does any human ever knowingly and willingly reject God?”

I welcome your participation in that thread!

So again, folks, please don’t respond to this thread. The OP has a misquote.
 
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