Does anyone find it strange that

[savedbygrace92]

I sorry that you think I’m faulting the priest. Obviously if I have a question about the faith, I would rather ask them to a priest or a trusted leader than an internet forum full of strangers. And no, I’m not asking the priest these questions right before mass–it would be incredibly silly to assume that all these things can be explained in 30 seconds. I’ve planned meetings with my priests and leaders and talked to them about it. Of course, we’re all human and even they don’t have all the answers and have admitted as such. I don’t expect them to know everything but obviously get frustrated when they ask me to just accept something I don’t understand just because I need to “have faith” or accept it must be some kind of “mystery” that is beyond human reasoning.

I’m forced to reject things that have no proof based in reality. I’m weary of answers that have no basis in the bible and are just feeble explanations or rationalizations for why things are the way they are. Perhaps it is a problem with my faith, but I simply cannot except unless the answer full satisfies me. But I’m taking many of your answers (in this thread) into consideration.

I think what’s really sad here is that most lay people are not encouraged to study the theology as the seminarians are. In fact, I have no idea (unless I go out and look for it) what exactly they learn and how they reason things out. On the plus side, I think I’ll take this opportunity and find out for myself what can be known and what can only be taken on faith and go forward from there.

Out of curiosity, do all of you (esp. those who have gone through some kind of period of doubt before) gone into the theology of the Church and why they believe what they believe? Have they gone into the theological proofs of God (as discussed by Aquinas and others)? Isn’t it more prudent to start with an open mind and look at the reasoning from the very beginning instead of already being convinced of the answer and trying to confirm it with these proofs?–i.e. confirmation bias

Not to sound obnoxious (and please do correct me if I assume wrong), but I get the sense (and I get this with IRL catholics I know as well) that you are all assuming that the answer to these questions exist somewhere and our reasoning and justifications of these answers also exists somewhere; that it’s all been worked out by people that are much smarter than us even if we haven’t worked it out ourselves.

Unlike the physical sciences, I need to know what steps people took to get to the conclusions they did. I don’t need to know the proofs for the existence of gravity because I can just drop a ball and see that it exists. I can’t do the same with God because there are literally a billion other things that could explain what we don’t understand other than God. Unlike gravity, I can’t test the theory of God existence. Especially since, apparently, I’m not supposed to test Him. So you see my frustration at least?

 

[Suslar]

Dear Saved,

No, I don’t think you are faulting your priest. Just seemed some comments on this thread from others were blaming priests who left them without answers. If your priest cannot help you delve more deeply into the Faith, then yes, I do think it is our responsibility to find the spiritual guides who can. It may be a priest-professor from a seminary who can help you or another priest who has a reputation for being knowledge. I’d encourage you to seek them out. Posting a thread asking strangers on here about names of good priests in your diocese might be a start.

Finding a terrific Spiritual Director might also help if you don’t already have one.

Our Faith is incredible in that young children can grasp it and yet it can never be fully known by even the sharpest minds. Once any of us thinks we know God, we don’t because we cannot understand God given the constraints of our humanity. I think that’s the “mystery” part of things. There are some things we might not ever know until the day when we can ask God. But there are other tenants that are completely knowable in order that we might accept and follow them.

I can “hear” in your posts your longing for more depth. There are great truly Catholic universities and seminaries that offer Master’s and Doctorate programs to lay people. The Cardinal Newman Society prints a list of the authentically Catholic universities. I’d encourage you to look into it. It is always a good thing when people learn more about the Faith.

I wish I could be of more help to you. Please message me if there is something more I can do to at least point you in the right direction.

Many blessings to you for a very Merry Christmas!

 

[JRKH]

Hi James,

Hello Suslar…Blessed Christmas to you.

I don’t understand why you suggest the first Pope was “uneducated”? After all, he and the other 11 spent three years living with Jesus. I bet they learned a lot during that time and got the chance to put it into action in the years that followed Jesus’ death, Resurrection and Ascension.

Actually I did not “suggest”, rather I “presumed”…

Of course - I was referring to a formal or “classical” kind of education - such as you demonstrated in the very thorough list that you provided. In Peter’s time this would perhaps equate to studying with those well versed in the Mosaic Law.
I think it is safe to say that Peter did not have such an education. At least we are not told that he did…Thus my presumption.

Anyway, you ask about the link between book learning and practical/ministerial approach.

Actually I did NOT ask…I merely commented.

The post of the courses I listed above comes from Mundelein Seminary near Chicago where Fr. Robert Barron is Rector. Fr. Barron is world renown for making the Faith accessible to the common person…
Yes I agree that Fr Barron is very gifted in this. But does that mean that every graduate of Mudelein Seminary is equally gifted this way?

However, there are two other factors to consider - today’s seminary protocols were not necessarily used on previous generations of priests, and today’s “average” lay person does not have the same basic Faith foundation as previous generations had nor a common language to discuss complex topics of the Faith. Have you ever watched a person’s eyes glaze over when you try to explain Aristotelian categories of “substance” and “accidents”?

:hypno:…Oops - sorry - my eyes just glazed over…

This is quite true. In fact the history of the Church is one of ebb and flow as regards the education of our priests and the laity.

Yet this does not really admit to what I was trying to convey (obviously very poorly).
The fact is that some priests (or deacons) seem better able to explain things than others. They have a natural talent for it while others do not.

While not necessarily true in the OP’s situation, there are times when a person wants a detailed explanation for something in the next 30 seconds while Father needs to offer an anointing to a sick person and get ready for the next Mass.

Yes such things can and do happen.

Rather than faulting priests over the OP’s more obscure post, as already suggested by many in this thread, why doesn’t the OP ask his or her questions on this forum? It’s likely they’ve already been discussed in other threads and that solid Catholic teachers have clips on YouTube or books available.

I was not aware that I had faulted the priests in my posts…If I did, I apologize…it was unintentional - no doubt due to my clumsy writing. I was merely suggesting that some priests are better at explaining things simply than other priests are.

That said, I wholeheartedly agree that the OP should post the questions here…

Peace
James

 

[bisco1]

i feel for you, because i have heard a lot of arguments for the existence of God, and the so called ‘proofs’. i have never found them satisfying and at some point, decided that God must exist, because of the lack of evidence for alternative explanations. the biblical story line does make sense to me overall, if not in every detail. but i have come to realize that the devil is in the details, and so, decided to jump headlong into the catholic pool. now, i try to spend my time seeking God, as He asked us to do, and living for others as Jesus commanded. even though His yoke is light, and his burden easy, it is a daily cross, and requires perseverance and trust.
i ask everyday in prayer, for more faith, more grace and more strength. God bless.

 

[pianistclare]

I sorry that you think I’m faulting the priest. Obviously if I have a question about the faith, I would rather ask them to a priest or a trusted leader than an internet forum full of strangers. And no, I’m not asking the priest these questions right before mass–it would be incredibly silly to assume that all these things can be explained in 30 seconds. I’ve planned meetings with my priests and leaders and talked to them about it. Of course, we’re all human and even they don’t have all the answers and have admitted as such. I don’t expect them to know everything but obviously get frustrated when they ask me to just accept something I don’t understand just because I need to “have faith” or accept it must be some kind of “mystery” that is beyond human reasoning.

I’m forced to reject things that have no proof based in reality. I’m weary of answers that have no basis in the bible and are just feeble explanations or rationalizations for why things are the way they are. Perhaps it is a problem with my faith, but I simply cannot except unless the answer full satisfies me. But I’m taking many of your answers (in this thread) into consideration.

I think what’s really sad here is that most lay people are not encouraged to study the theology as the seminarians are. In fact, I have no idea (unless I go out and look for it) what exactly they learn and how they reason things out. On the plus side, I think I’ll take this opportunity and find out for myself what can be known and what can only be taken on faith and go forward from there.

Out of curiosity, do all of you (esp. those who have gone through some kind of period of doubt before) gone into the theology of the Church and why they believe what they believe? Have they gone into the theological proofs of God (as discussed by Aquinas and others)? Isn’t it more prudent to start with an open mind and look at the reasoning from the very beginning instead of already being convinced of the answer and trying to confirm it with these proofs?–i.e. confirmation bias

Not to sound obnoxious (and please do correct me if I assume wrong), but I get the sense (and I get this with IRL catholics I know as well) that you are all assuming that the answer to these questions exist somewhere and our reasoning and justifications of these answers also exists somewhere; that it’s all been worked out by people that are much smarter than us even if we haven’t worked it out ourselves.

Unlike the physical sciences, I need to know what steps people took to get to the conclusions they did. I don’t need to know the proofs for the existence of gravity because I can just drop a ball and see that it exists. I can’t do the same with God because there are literally a billion other things that could explain what we don’t understand other than God. Unlike gravity, I can’t test the theory of God existence. Especially since, apparently, I’m not supposed to test Him. So you see my frustration at least?

I see your frustration, But be wary of believing that mere humans can know everything about God, and can or should know His plan in every instance.
God is real, Jesus’ Passion is real, the Eucharist is Real, and the Catholic church has been upholding truth for over 2000 years. Pretty compelling, IMHO. Again, read what the Church teaches, not what people throw about in conversation. I don’t get medical advice off the internet or from casual friends, lawyers, or handymen. If I want info, I educate myself through someone who has facts and good education themselves. I would recommend getting a Spiritual Director from among the priests in your area. They love these discussion and they can really help you as you work through your questions.
Have a blessed Christmas.

 

[Purgatory_Pete]

In my part of Australia Catholic education has been non existent for around 40 years.
Proper teaching that is. they had modernized classes that taught there was no need to
go to confession, if you say in your head “sorry God” then all is forgiven. They answered
next to no questions on Faith, one even said that if you have a party to attend on Sunday
then God understands why you wont be at church. another told us that the whole world is God’s church so we never need to enter a building to be in Mass. Even as a child I found that very strange.

I know some very good priests that strangely, avoid answering questions for fear of misleading someone or even getting in an argument. They are happy to go away and research it (Time permitting) and will give you the information you wanted ,but they will not be drawn in to discussion’s about it.

What you are looking for and what we all need is an old fashioned Catechism class in every Parish. where it will be understood that these sort of questions will be asked in each class. They can be followed by light theology classes (ongoing and covering many areas)
This is what we need to inform the Synod in Rome about.
They are asking what we need so fill in the form and tell them.

Enjoy your Christmas Day
:tanning: