Does anyone know how temporal punishment for sins is usually meted out while on earth?

[Visiter58]

Does anyone know how temporal punishment for sins is usually meted out while on earth?

 

[TechieGuy]

The sin of drunkenness leads to the temporal punishment of a bad hangover, for example

 

[Visiter58]

Okay. Thanks.

 

[chevalier]

There’s also the element of not knowing. An illness may be a symbolic punishment for some sins relating to the relevant part of the body, but it may also be completely unrelated.

The idea is that it’s good to accept the suffering that comes in life at least in lieu of punishment if not actually that, without fussing.

 

[ServusDei1]

Alms, the sprinkling of holy water, and of course indulgences may remit venial sins.

 

[0Scarlett_nidiyilii]

Sin carries its own earthly consequence

 

[MT1926]

Here’s some examples from the Bible.

2 Samuel 12:13-14 13 David said to Nathan, “I have sinned against the Lord.” And Nathan said to David, “The Lord also has put away your sin; you shall not die. 14 Nevertheless, because by this deed you have utterly scorned the Lord, the child that is born to you shall die.”

The lord put away the eternal punishment for David’s sin. However, David still had to suffer the temporal punishment, the loss of his son, while still here on earth.

In Numbers 14:13-23 we see in verse 20 the Lord pardoning the eternal punishment when Moses Intercedes for the people. However, in verse 23 the Lord makes them suffer temporal punishment here on earth by keeping them in the wilderness and not letting that generation see the promised land.

In Numbers 20 & 27 we hear about Moses and Aaron suffering temporal punishment for striking the rock twice.

Jesus paid the price for our sins but He did not relieve our obligation to repair what we have done.

I always like the explanation of the kid breaking the window after the father told him not to play ball in the house. The father loves the son, sure he will forgive him for breaking the window. But the kid still has to clean up the mess. To me it is common sense. If the kid knows a sorry brings forgiveness and the father will clean up the mess then he will never try to do better. Think about all of the news stories about the rich kid who keeps getting bailed out by his dad.

Here is a great example:

How about if you steal a car?

You repent of the sin wipes out the eternal punishment.
I’m sure you would agree you should give the car back. If there was no temporal punishment then we wouldn’t need to give the car back.

Now here’s the kicker let’s say you repent 40 years after stealing the car. There is no longer a car to return and the person you stole it from is now long gone. Is there justice in automatically wiping out the temporal punishment?

As others have mentioned other sacrifices or actions might relieve the temporal punishments for these sins.

To me this is what makes Purgatory common sense. Someone always has to clean up the mess and it is only just that we clean up our own messes.

Clean it now or clean it later, your choice.

God Bless

PS cleaning it now is probably a lot less painful than later. Think about the 7 year old that needs to finish his chores before he is allowed to open his Christmas presents. Is it more painful to do the chores in August or more painful to do them at 8 am on Christmas morning when all of his siblings are opening their gifts.

 

[Vico]

Does anyone know how temporal punishment for sins is usually meted out while on earth?

Catechism

1472 … every sin, even venial, entails an unhealthy attachment to creatures, which must be purified either here on earth, or after death …
1473 The forgiveness of sin and restoration of communion with God entail the remission of the eternal punishment of sin, but temporal punishment of sin remains. While patiently bearing sufferings and trials of all kinds and, when the day comes, serenely facing death, the Christian must strive to accept this temporal punishment of sin as a grace. He should strive by works of mercy and charity, as well as by prayer and the various practices of penance, to put off completely the “old man” and to put on the "new man."84

 

[TULIPed]

This is interesting. Is the concept of temporal sin that God will punish you here on earth for a sin you committed even if you’ve confessed and repented? Or, is it that there are natural consequences for your sin? If the former, how do you know if you’ve repented enough? For example - the secular courts split damages for torts into actual and punitive damages. Punitive damages would include damages for things like “pain and suffering”.

So, using your example of the car, let’s say the car was given to me by me relative who passed away and was very meaningful to me. I spent the time that I thought it was stolen wracked with sorrow and guilt for allowing it to be stolen - or just that it was stolen. For the thief to be released of temporal punishment, would he need to return the car and compensate me somehow for my suffering?

Question 2: let’s say you sinned as a child, before you really understood what you we doing and what the consequences of your actions were. Are you still subject to being punished temporally?

Question 3: How do you know when the punishment has happened? “Bad things” happen to us all the time - how do we know which bad thing applies to which temporal sin? Do you “keep score”?

As a Reformed Protestant, on the one hand, I believe that God can sovereignly do whatever he wants, so of course he can punish us. On the other hand I also believe that through Christ, “so far as the east is from the west he has removed our transgressions from us.” So, in the first example, we return the car and make amends because we’re responsive to the second greatest commandment, “Love your neighbor as yourself”, rather than out of fear of God’s reprisal.

I’ve always like the way you guys think of time in terms of Kairos and Chronos. Perhaps that’s operative here, no?

Thanks in advance for your responses MT.

 

[TULIPed]

Ah - interesting. So just living in the here and now and being subject to pain and suffering is, in general, punishment for temporal sin. That makes sense to me.

 

[Visiter58]

I love this site because I always get such thoughtful responses. May God bless all of you and all who seek to please Him!

 

[Gabika50]

Civil and criminal law and through churches with confession in various forms…

 

[Todd_Easton]

Does anyone know how temporal punishment for sins is usually meted out while on earth?

There is no such metric. Sometimes our sins are punished by economic losses, personal losses, health problems or early death but not always. And, just because someone experiences those things doesn’t mean they sinned or are worse sinners than others. Consider the bad things experienced by righteous Job and Joseph in the Old Testament and by sinless Jesus in the New.

 

[rom]

And, just because someone experiences those things doesn’t mean they sinned or are worse sinners than others. Consider the bad things experienced by righteous Job and Joseph in the Old Testament and by sinless Jesus in the New.

You are absolutely right. I also remember in the gospel of John there was a man born blind whom Christ healed. But before He performed the miracle His disciples asked Him whether the blindness was due to the man’s sin or to his parents. Christ said, “Neither hath this man sinned, nor his parents; but that the works of God should be made manifest in him” (JOHN 9:3). That means, the man was born blind, not as punishment for sin, but so that God’s glory might be manifested through the miracle that Christ was later to perform on him. Not all suffering in this life should be interpreted as punishment for sin.

 

[MT1926]

This is interesting. Is the concept of temporal sin that God will punish you here on earth for a sin you committed even if you’ve confessed and repented?

I can’t give you an in depth answer here because I am still learning the fine details on this subject. I like the example I gave above about the window, having 5 kids it makes perfect sense to me. The eternal punishment is forgiven with the repentance, but someone still has to clean up the mess. Cleaning up the mess isn’t necessary for forgiveness but it is the right thing for the child to do and the right thing for the father to make the child do. The temporal punishment is our learning lesson. It is what makes us perfect to enter heaven. We can learn it now or learn it later.

Or, is it that there are natural consequences for your sin?

Of course there are natural consequences for our sin. Jesus forgives us for our sin but we still die. Death would be considered a temporal punishment for our sin which lasts until the second coming when we get our eternal bodies back. If Jesus’ sacrifice removed temporal punishments we would be immortal like Adam was before the fall.

If the former, how do you know if you’ve repented enough?

Repentance is for eternal punishment not temporal punishment. We sin we repent we are forgiven, it’s one and done. Unless you sin again, then you gotta repent again.

For the thief to be released of temporal punishment, would he need to return the car and compensate me somehow for my suffering?

I’m sure you would agree that the amount of temporal punishment would be up to the judge. Well we agree that God is the judge and I would say He alone decides how much temporal punishment is enough. Let’s go back to the window. I’m no saint but if I clean up 2 or 3 windows I kinda realize maybe I shouldn’t keep breaking windows. Now my older brother on the other hand he’s always needed to be forced to clean up about 300-400 windows before he get its. God knows how much sweeping we need to do. I don’t really worry about the job I just trust God will give me just enough punishment to make me perfect. You know the old saying practice makes perfect.

continued…

 

[MT1926]

Question 2: let’s say you sinned as a child, before you really understood what you we doing and what the consequences of your actions were. Are you still subject to being punished temporally?

I sure hope God makes me subject to the temporal punishment.

St. Paul tells us…

1 Corinthians 13:11 When I was a child, I spoke like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child; when I became an adult, I put an end to childish ways. 12 For now we see in a mirror, dimly, but then we will see face to face. Now I know only in part; then I will know fully, even as I have been fully known. 13 And now faith, hope, and love abide, these three; and the greatest of these is love.

This tells me that on judgement day God will reveal all of our good and all of our bad in a way that we will fully know the extent of our actions here on earth. I honestly don’t think I could rest in peace if it was revealed to me that I wronged someone, even as a child, and did not make amends for my actions. Not knowing your actions harmed someone else doesn’t relieve you of the consequences or the guilt once you realize you are responsible.

Question 3: How do you know when the punishment has happened? “Bad things” happen to us all the time - how do we know which bad thing applies to which temporal sin? Do you “keep score”?

I don’t keep score how can I? The amount of punishment is not my call, I’m not the judge. I think the important thing is to be mindful of the bad things and offer the pain and suffering up to God. Also, keep in mind not all temporal punishment is painful. Sometimes righting a wrong makes us feel better.

So, in the first example, we return the car and make amends because we’re responsive to the second greatest commandment, “Love your neighbor as yourself”, rather than out of fear of God’s reprisal.

Amen I totally agree. I think this is the main point of the entire issue. If the teaching is understood logically and correctly there should be no fear of God’s reprisal. You repent you are forgiven, it’s a done deal. Fearing God’s reprisal is nothing more than fearing to have to cleaning up your own mess, no offense to you or anyone else, but that sounds to me more like, the person fearing God’s reprisal is lazy and actually fears having to do some work.

I personally want to be held responsible for my actions and there for have nothing to fear.

Thanks for the discussion and the kind words.

God Bless

 

[TULIPed]

Good stuff. Thanks for taking the time to reply MT.

 

[sheepovrep]

1. The wages of sin are death. The bible
2. Jesus preached to the jews.
3. Someone in the future was reborn in chains to the jews being told who was good and bad and never the two shall cross, because someone was going to be bad.

correction

1. The wages of sin are death. The bible
2. Jesus preached to the jews.
3. Peter preaches to the gentiles.
4. People did not figure out that in the past someone was going to be bad.
5. Someone was not reborn in chains in the future.

 

[MT1926]

• The wages of sin are death. The bible
• Jesus preached to the jews.
• Peter preaches to the gentiles.
• People did not figure out that in the past someone was going to be bad.
• Someone was not reborn in chains in the future.

I’m sorry I’ve been rereading your post for 5 minutes now and I must be missing something. Would you be willing to give a little more detail as to how these 5 points answer the OP’s question.

Thanks,

God Bless

 

[Vico]

Ah - interesting. So just living in the here and now and being subject to pain and suffering is, in general, punishment for temporal sin. That makes sense to me.

However, the attachment to creatures that occurs from sin can be removed while living through alms, fasting, prayer, indulgences.