Does anyone really understand this aspect of Theolgy of the Body?

[ChibiViolet]

Does anyone really understand what Theology of the Body says about the celibate life? Does anyone really understand this: “God gave us sexual desire ‘in the beginning,’ according to John Paul, to be the very power to love in the image of God through the sincere gift of self. This is why he calls the sexual urge ‘a vector of aspiration along which [our] whole existence develops and perfects itself from within’ (Love & Responsibility p. 46). According to Christian revelation, there are two ways of fulfilling this fundamental call to love: marriage or celibacy (see Familiaris Consortio n. 11).” or really much of anything from this link: catholiceducation.org/en/marriage-and-family/sexuality/celibacy-for-the-kingdom-amp-the-fulfillment-of-human-sexuality.html

I feel as though sexual feelings are not redeemable in this life outside of marriage. But, then I also don’t feel called to marriage. I don’t want to belong to anyone, but God. Is prayer an acceptable way to seek the transcendence of such feelings, or is it just sinful and or improper? I guess its simply not proper for me because I’ve felt sexual feelings towards God as a part of my love for Him? Sometimes it just feels so pure and beautiful, but at the same time feel a need to brush such feelings aside–sometimes quite firmly and its more like I’m beating them out of myself.

They won’t be transcended, I don’t think. I did ask for God’s help with it, but now they all just feel very tainted whenever I feel any. I feel like Satan is a big part of that so it could pass, but I don’t know…

 

[ChibiViolet]

Here is a link that has cleared up a lot for me. I get that prayer is acceptable to help with this and that everyone really is to somehow use sexual feelings in their relationship with God, at least at the second coming, so I guess that means that I can pray with such feelings, as long as they are not tainted and stem only from love…

crossroadsinitiative.com/library_article/323/What_is_the_Theology_of_the_Body____Christopher_West.html

 

[cjforJesus]

Here is a link that has cleared up a lot for me. I get that prayer is acceptable to help with this and that everyone really is to somehow use sexual feelings in their relationship with God, at least at the second coming, so I guess that means that I can pray with such feelings, as long as they are not tainted and stem only from love…

crossroadsinitiative.com/library_article/323/What_is_the_Theology_of_the_Body____Christopher_West.html

I suggest you avoid the writings of Chris West. You can read the whole Theology of the Body series online in the true words of St John Paul 2.

In one of Wests books he claimed that a man sodomizing his wife is not inherently wrong! In later writings he rightfully retracted it.To truly understand Theology of the Body go to the AUTHOR.

ewtn.com/library/PAPALDOC/JP2TBIND.HTM

 

[Murmurs]

Here is a link that has cleared up a lot for me. I get that prayer is acceptable to help with this and that everyone really is to somehow use sexual feelings in their relationship with God, at least at the second coming, so I guess that means that I can pray with such feelings, as long as they are not tainted and stem only from love…

crossroadsinitiative.com/library_article/323/What_is_the_Theology_of_the_Body____Christopher_West.html

That article is some of the most clearly articulated and inspirational writing on TotB that I’ve read. Thank you, ChibiViolet, for sharing it

And while I don’t know quite what you experience or have experienced, but I totally understand whatyou mean by sexual feelings towards God. For a very very long time (and still, sometimes!), it leaves me rather confused, and a little horrified. (If you haven’t already, seek a good spiritual advisor because certainly a lot of things I felt much clearer about).

It’s very hard to say but ultimately yes sexual feeling is at least as much about a relationship with God, as between a husband and wife (different senses of sexual feeling, maybe!). Such feelings I don’t think are inimical to prayer at all; as you say, stemming from love. I don’t think having a sexual feeling means one prays lustfully (maybe you didn’t mean that but I read between your lines that into what you wrote ).

Above all I don’t think anything like that, which confusing as it might be, is also a beautiful and pure thing, should be brushed aside at all. In many ways what you might feel is perhaps a more wonderful thing than anything else.

A lot of Catholic (or more broadly Christian) writing about sex or sexual feelings is very much bound up in a series of prohibitions about what is and isn’t acceptable. While not denying the importance of this, I think a view of sex-as-a-thing is very much missing the point. I don’t know quite what you feel, but I wonder if perhaps you have the point, all by yourself. Which is IMO only a wonderful blessing.

 

[Murmurs]

I suggest you avoid the writings of Chris West. You can read the whole Theology of the Body series online in the true words of St John Paul 2.

In one of Wests books he claimed that a man sodomizing his wife is not inherently wrong! In later writings he rightfully retracted it.To truly understand Theology of the Body go to the AUTHOR.

ewtn.com/library/PAPALDOC/JP2TBIND.HTM

I think you (accidentally?) kind of underlines my point. Yes, read John Paul II’s original writing (which can’t be beaten really), but his point isn’t intrinsically that sex is about dos and don’ts (re. anal sex or anything else). The sexual act is related inherently to openness to life, but it’s not just about that, and I think other practices (in a marital context, obvs) can speak to very real love as much as anything. (They might not, but can). Members of the Church obsessing with what ends up where in one instance or other, isn’t helping anyone (themselves, others, or the Church itself)

This is something I rather think CB has grasped, and a lot us, married or single, could perhaps think about a lot more than we do.

 

[cjforJesus]

I think you (accidentally?) kind of underlines my point. Yes, read John Paul II’s original writing (which can’t be beaten really), but his point isn’t intrinsically that sex is about dos and don’ts (re. anal sex or anything else). The sexual act is related inherently to openness to life, but it’s not just about that, and I think other practices (in a marital context, obvs) can speak to very real love as much as anything. (They might not, but can). Members of the Church obsessing with what ends up where in one instance or other, isn’t helping anyone (themselves, others, or the Church itself)

This is something I rather think CB has grasped, and a lot us, married or single, could perhaps think about a lot more than we do.

Sorry,but I thought West literally mutilated Theology of the Body. If you actually read the series of talks you can see exactly what St John Paul 2 was speaking about regarding purity and conjugal love. It is beautiful beyond compare.

I think Chibiviolet needs to speak with a spiritual director asap in regards to her unusual sexual attractions. Something is definitely off in what she perceives as love.

 

[Murmurs]

Sorry,but I thought West literally mutilated Theology of the Body. If you actually read the series of talks you can see exactly what St John Paul 2 was speaking about regarding purity and conjugal love. It is beautiful beyond compare.

I think Chibiviolet needs to speak with a spiritual director asap in regards to her unusual sexual attractions. Something is definitely off in what she perceives as love.

I agree beautiful, very beautiful - one of a small handful of things which precipitated my entry into the Catholic Church, in fact. Maybe I have a slight residual live-and-let-live thing in me as a hangover from my Anglican (which is to say, practically agnostic!) days, but while I know what the Church teaches is and isn’t sinful even within marriage, I have always had the feeling that when given in love (in marriage) sex is about sharing joy (and, maybe, life), rather than about mechanically doing what isn’t or avoiding what is, sinful.

What you, ChibiViolet, experience is definitely unusual and looking through CAF I see you have in the past talked with people about this. Definitely maybe seek someone out. I don’t agree with CJ that it’s necessarily “off”, and probably less unusual than we think, but how your feelings can and should be integrated into the love of (and for) God, is best explored by people who hopefully know better than most of us here!

In my prayers, xx

 

[ChibiViolet]

That article is some of the most clearly articulated and inspirational writing on TotB that I’ve read. Thank you, ChibiViolet, for sharing it

And while I don’t know quite what you experience or have experienced, but I totally understand whatyou mean by sexual feelings towards God. For a very very long time (and still, sometimes!), it leaves me rather confused, and a little horrified. (If you haven’t already, seek a good spiritual advisor because certainly a lot of things I felt much clearer about).

It’s very hard to say but ultimately yes sexual feeling is at least as much about a relationship with God, as between a husband and wife (different senses of sexual feeling, maybe!). Such feelings I don’t think are inimical to prayer at all; as you say, stemming from love. I don’t think having a sexual feeling means one prays lustfully (maybe you didn’t mean that but I read between your lines that into what you wrote ).

Above all I don’t think anything like that, which confusing as it might be, is also a beautiful and pure thing, should be brushed aside at all. In many ways what you might feel is perhaps a more wonderful thing than anything else.

A lot of Catholic (or more broadly Christian) writing about sex or sexual feelings is very much bound up in a series of prohibitions about what is and isn’t acceptable. While not denying the importance of this, I think a view of sex-as-a-thing is very much missing the point. I don’t know quite what you feel, but I wonder if perhaps you have the point, all by yourself. Which is IMO only a wonderful blessing.

I never intended it to sound lustful…I do NOT condone lust and sincerely hope no one thinks because of what I wrote that I do…I tried to be as clear as I possibly could…

I am not simply viewing sex as a “thing,” but talking about how sexuality can manifest itself as part of a pure, holy relationship with God. Sexuality is part of a person and I know that–well, to be more accurate–all of the self is one. We should not withhold any part of ourselves from God, no matter our vocation.

I highly doubt I alone know about this as it seems to be a thing that St. John Paul wrote about in Theology of the Body and if it weren’t for his writing it, I would never have figured it out.

 

[ChibiViolet]

I never intended it to sound lustful…I do NOT condone lust and sincerely hope no one thinks because of what I wrote that I do…I tried to be as clear as I possibly could…

I am not simply viewing sex as a “thing,” but talking about how sexuality can manifest itself as part of a pure, holy relationship with God. Sexuality is part of a person and I know that–well, to be more accurate–all of the self is one. We should not withhold any part of ourselves from God, no matter our vocation.

I highly doubt I alone know about this as it seems to be a thing that St. John Paul wrote about in Theology of the Body and if it weren’t for his writing it, I would never have figured it out.

I’m sorry about the the part trying to correct you on my view of not viewing sex as a “thing.” I had not read carefully enough at first due to being tired.

 

[Murmurs]

I’m sorry about the the part trying to correct you on my view of not viewing sex as a “thing.” I had not read carefully enough at first due to being tired.

You were merely suffering the incoherence of my own tiredness!! I didn’t mean to imply I in any way condemned or looked askance at what you feel! It may be (it def sounds) a little confusing but actually I think it’s wonderful.

God bless you

M xx